Re: T&T: Electronic Engines (was: Iveco Vs Deere)
Arlid Wrote
Yesterday I visited a Fleming 55 which had been repowered with new
Catepillar electronic engines.
The owner- a retired maintenance/service Manager with a Cat dealer told me
that if his alterantorss died his engien would quit. Seems the normal and
recommended setup is to power the engine controls fromthe start battery.
But the cat engine is also supplied with a Delco alternator that has a
circuit breaker in the alternator output.
If that beraker pops, then you lose battery charging and poof goes the
engine.
Previously I had been told that Detroit had some kind of get home feature
wherby the engine could still run at reduced power, if the controller died.
CAt does not have any such feature.
So that begs the question. Just how safe and reliable is a trawler that is
equipped with an electronic engine?
The new J-D 6068T does have electronic controls. what provision does it have
for a get home method?
regards
Arild
All this babble about non reliability of electronic engines needs a reality
check. First of all your engine is not going to die if your alternator quits
it's only going to die if your batteries go stone dead. Most mechanical
engines use an electric control to turn on the injection pump that requires power
to run so they will die if your battery goes stone dead also. Considering the
small amount of power required to run the electronics it will take an awfully
long time to kill the battery. I also can't imagine a blue water boat with
only one charging source. Electronic engines do not require electronic
controls all manufactures offer a throttle potentiometer for cable control.
This fear of electronics is the same stuff that we heard about cars 20 years
ago but in fact cars are more reliable perform better and last longer than
they did years ago largely because of electronics. Electronic diesels are
quieter smoother more fuel efficient and produce less emissions than there
predecessors. As of this date my company has installed 116 John Deere 6068TFM since
they switched to electronic so far we have not seen one failure caused by
the electronics. If your looking at powering a blue water boat or any boat and
reliability is a prime concern you would be wise to stay away from the
oddballs with limited service and parts availability and go with one of the more
popular names weather it be electronic or not.
Brian Palmetto FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Trainman484848@aol.com
All this babble about non reliability of electronic engines needs
a reality > check. First of all your engine is not going to die if your
alternator quits it's only going to die if your batteries go stone dead.
REPLY
Precisely, which is why the question is not so much babble but a legit
question given that the start battery may not be all that large and it may
also have additionalloads connected.
Time to STOP is a function of battery capacity.
Arild et al:
Even though my Yanmar 370 is totally mechanical (no electric fuel pump, a
power to kill shut off, etc.), its throttle and shift are electronic and so
it entirely dependent on battery power. Fortunately the ZF/Mathers control
is powered by a ZF box that sources power from two different sources and
picks the highest voltage. If I had an electronic engine I would do the same
thing, wiring it to the engine start and house batteries. That would give me
as good a reliability as it gets.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: David&Joan
Even though my Yanmar 370 is totally mechanical (no electric fuel pump, a
power to kill shut off, etc.), its throttle and shift are electronic and
so
it entirely dependent on battery power. Fortunately the ZF/Mathers control
is powered by a ZF box that sources power from two different sources and
picks the highest voltage. If I had an electronic engine I would
do the same thing, wiring it to the engine start and house batteries. That
would give me as good a reliability as it gets.
REPLY
Good approach, but!! .... playing devils advocate fro a moment;
what if you also relied on a combiner to charge both house and start bank
from one alternator?
Hypothetical situation on a hypothetical trawler.
Single engine trawler, one high output alternator and a combiner to charge
both start and house.
Boat is primarily a DC vessel and doesn't rely on a genset or big inverter
for normal power.
Vessel has a small dedicated inverter to run a household fridge, and a 20
amp charger to trickle charge the batteries when docked and plugged into
shore power. The rationale being, a 20 Amp charger is less expensive than a
bigger one and will still charge a decent sized house bank overnight when
plugged in for 16 hours.
Fault situation.
While making an extended passage involving ovenight travel along a lee shore
with few sheltering harbors; the one and only alternator dies. The Engine
itself is working perfectly but the peripheral controls, electric fuel pump,
ZF Mathers throttle/shift controller and maybe the electric fuel valve in
the injection pump will die when the DC voltage drops below a given
threshold. This happens at 10 PM and the boat's normal electrical load is
40 -60 amps DC all told. The available battery capacity means the battery
voltage in all banks will drop below critical threshold by 3 AM at the
latest. ( 5 hours run time)
Problem is, you are a minimum of six hours travel from nearest safe haven,
your genset can only provide one third to one half of the required amperage
from the shore power charger, so what can you do?
What design changes do you need to make to the electrical system so that the
above scenario does not leave you adrift without power on a lee shore.
Arild
C'mon Arild.
A simple solution to your fault situation is to buy a bigger shorepower
charger, although I seriously doubt if you will be drawing anywhere near 40
amps in that situation, more like 10 with lights navigation, radar and the
works.
Another solution is two alternators.
David