Oncore UT+
Hello all,
I'm sure I'm not a time nut. But in the beginning I had an HP5245L and its
oven oscillator defined 10MHz in my corner of the world. Unfortunately one
day the oven heater stopped working. And sadly HP didn't include an oven
temp stable indicator. So things started to go wrong when aligning a
spectrum analyser (somewhere in the GHz region where that 10MHz had been
multiplied up a lot). As one might expect crystals designed to be stable
at 70 degrees C have a large temp-co at room temp.
A kind loan of an off air (Drotiwich) standard and HP53131A enabled some
element of normality to be obtained (and the oven fault to be found and
fixed) - interesting to see the HP200 style thermistor limited oscillator
followed by envelope detector used as a temperature controller! But of
course I was curious as to how the various oven oscillators in test gear I
owned actually behaved (such is the danger of having done a PhD in
stochastic processes). It's nice also to find non-Gaussian noise processes
cropping up along with the two sample variance.
A better reference was clearly needed. To convince myself I don't need a
Caesium standard I decided I needed a GPSDO. I've been modifying one of
those Lucent RTFG-u REF-0 boxes following Peter Garde's excellent
instructions (because it looked fun). All was going well until i found my
Motorola Oncore module believed to be a UT+ when bought was in fact a GT+
and didn't provide some of the T-RAIM messages the HP needs (the GT+ is a
navigation receiver).
There's not much info around on these modules (probably because they are
ancient) - and at the moment no UT+ listed anywhere in the UK for sale; so
wondering if anyone knows about the differences - are they firmware or
hardware? There's a firmware upload option in the WinOncore software - but
I haven't been able to find any archives of the actual firmware.
Alan
Hi
The original Oncore modules are all a bit past their practical “use by”
date. Even if you can find one, issues are likely to crop up. Better to
shop around for one of the modern drop in replacement parts.
The disadvantage of this approach is that the price of one of the modern
parts might be a signifiant fraction of the cost ( < $100 delivered) of an
eBay GPSDO.
Bob
On Nov 15, 2022, at 6:28 AM, alan bain via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Hello all,
I'm sure I'm not a time nut. But in the beginning I had an HP5245L and its
oven oscillator defined 10MHz in my corner of the world. Unfortunately one
day the oven heater stopped working. And sadly HP didn't include an oven
temp stable indicator. So things started to go wrong when aligning a
spectrum analyser (somewhere in the GHz region where that 10MHz had been
multiplied up a lot). As one might expect crystals designed to be stable
at 70 degrees C have a large temp-co at room temp.
A kind loan of an off air (Drotiwich) standard and HP53131A enabled some
element of normality to be obtained (and the oven fault to be found and
fixed) - interesting to see the HP200 style thermistor limited oscillator
followed by envelope detector used as a temperature controller! But of
course I was curious as to how the various oven oscillators in test gear I
owned actually behaved (such is the danger of having done a PhD in
stochastic processes). It's nice also to find non-Gaussian noise processes
cropping up along with the two sample variance.
A better reference was clearly needed. To convince myself I don't need a
Caesium standard I decided I needed a GPSDO. I've been modifying one of
those Lucent RTFG-u REF-0 boxes following Peter Garde's excellent
instructions (because it looked fun). All was going well until i found my
Motorola Oncore module believed to be a UT+ when bought was in fact a GT+
and didn't provide some of the T-RAIM messages the HP needs (the GT+ is a
navigation receiver).
There's not much info around on these modules (probably because they are
ancient) - and at the moment no UT+ listed anywhere in the UK for sale; so
wondering if anyone knows about the differences - are they firmware or
hardware? There's a firmware upload option in the WinOncore software - but
I haven't been able to find any archives of the actual firmware.
Alan
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Am 2022-11-15 12:28, schrieb alan bain via time-nuts:
A better reference was clearly needed. To convince myself I don't need
a
Caesium standard I decided I needed a GPSDO. I've been modifying one
of
those Lucent RTFG-u REF-0 boxes following Peter Garde's excellent
instructions (because it looked fun). All was going well until i found
my
Motorola Oncore module believed to be a UT+ when bought was in fact a
GT+
and didn't provide some of the T-RAIM messages the HP needs (the GT+ is
a
navigation receiver).
There's not much info around on these modules (probably because they
are
ancient) - and at the moment no UT+ listed anywhere in the UK for sale;
so
wondering if anyone knows about the differences - are they firmware or
hardware? There's a firmware upload option in the WinOncore software -
but
I haven't been able to find any archives of the actual firmware.
I have bought a Ref-0 and a Ref-1 unit from that guy in Florida, maybe
PyroJoe?
Some people around here did that, too.
The units were still shrink-wrapped, never been on a telecom tower.
The ref-1 units have the GPS-Receiver, the ref-0 units don't. Not even
an
antenna plug. The ref-1 units were quickly sold out, but nobody wanted
ref-0 w/o GPS. I got a price I could not refuse for the leftover ref-0
units,
each had a 5 MHz MTI-260 oven as hot spare (so does have the ref-1).
I ended up with abt. 20 ovens. :-) Better deal than those Chinese MV89A
that are removed from their boards with hammer & sickle and best used
for
5 MHz SC crystals.
I have a back burner project of locking a lot of these MTI-260 slooowly
to the GPS source and Wilkinson-combine the outputs together with the
intent to get 222* 3dB phase noise improvement. The board for 4
oscillators is still in statu nascendi. Ḿaybe XMESS.
The 10 MHz test point of the ref0 has ugly phase noise.
I made a doubler/distributor for the ref1, directly from the oven.
Nothing special, mostly LM6702 or ad8000 CFB op amps.
< http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/DoubDist.pdf >
Please, where is that stuff from Peter Garde?
cheers,
Gerhard DK4XP
There is a "plug and play" solution, but I have not tried on myself. With a UBLOX GNSS upgrade you have a really nice system. As I remember the 260 quartz oscillator has very good phase noise (-105db@1Hz).
I would be interested if anyone has tried these. I know there were a few posts about the Jackson Labs M12 replacement in the Symmetricom XLI and I found those work well.
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/SSR-VP_UT-Single-Board-Datasheet-062922.pdf
UPDATE OLDER GPS BASED TIMING INSTRUMENTATION PRODUCTS - Synergy Systems, LLChttps://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/SSR-VP_UT-Single-Board-Datasheet-062922.pdf
When testing is complete, this Tech-Note will be revised to add the manufacturer’s model number(s) to the Ordering Information page of this Tech -Note.
synergy-gps.com
Tom Knox
SR Test and Measurement Engineer
Phoenix Research
[https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/9c5a214/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1280x672+0+24/resize/1200x630!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fewscripps-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F42%2Fbf%2F3cc113174c00b8c24e41ea6c27f3%2Ffire-lab.png]https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/marshall-fire/superior-man-moving-forward-after-losing-dream-research-lab-during-marshall-fire
Superior man moving forward after losing dream research lab to fire - KMGHhttps://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/marshall-fire/superior-man-moving-forward-after-losing-dream-research-lab-during-marshall-fire
SUPERIOR, Colo. — It’s been nearly three months since the Marshall Fire and the stories of the community's resilience are scattered across Boulder County.I have not tried on of these,
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"Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice" Both MLK and Albert Einstein
From: Bob kb8tq via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 12:09 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: alan bain alan.bain@gmail.com; Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Oncore UT+
Hi
The original Oncore modules are all a bit past their practical “use by”
date. Even if you can find one, issues are likely to crop up. Better to
shop around for one of the modern drop in replacement parts.
The disadvantage of this approach is that the price of one of the modern
parts might be a signifiant fraction of the cost ( < $100 delivered) of an
eBay GPSDO.
Bob
On Nov 15, 2022, at 6:28 AM, alan bain via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
Hello all,
I'm sure I'm not a time nut. But in the beginning I had an HP5245L and its
oven oscillator defined 10MHz in my corner of the world. Unfortunately one
day the oven heater stopped working. And sadly HP didn't include an oven
temp stable indicator. So things started to go wrong when aligning a
spectrum analyser (somewhere in the GHz region where that 10MHz had been
multiplied up a lot). As one might expect crystals designed to be stable
at 70 degrees C have a large temp-co at room temp.
A kind loan of an off air (Drotiwich) standard and HP53131A enabled some
element of normality to be obtained (and the oven fault to be found and
fixed) - interesting to see the HP200 style thermistor limited oscillator
followed by envelope detector used as a temperature controller! But of
course I was curious as to how the various oven oscillators in test gear I
owned actually behaved (such is the danger of having done a PhD in
stochastic processes). It's nice also to find non-Gaussian noise processes
cropping up along with the two sample variance.
A better reference was clearly needed. To convince myself I don't need a
Caesium standard I decided I needed a GPSDO. I've been modifying one of
those Lucent RTFG-u REF-0 boxes following Peter Garde's excellent
instructions (because it looked fun). All was going well until i found my
Motorola Oncore module believed to be a UT+ when bought was in fact a GT+
and didn't provide some of the T-RAIM messages the HP needs (the GT+ is a
navigation receiver).
There's not much info around on these modules (probably because they are
ancient) - and at the moment no UT+ listed anywhere in the UK for sale; so
wondering if anyone knows about the differences - are they firmware or
hardware? There's a firmware upload option in the WinOncore software - but
I haven't been able to find any archives of the actual firmware.
Alan
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 03:19, Gerhard Hoffmann via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Am 2022-11-15 12:28, schrieb alan bain via time-nuts:
A better reference was clearly needed. To convince myself I don't need
a
Caesium standard I decided I needed a GPSDO. I've been modifying one
of
those Lucent RTFG-u REF-0 boxes following Peter Garde's excellent
instructions (because it looked fun). All was going well until i found
my
Motorola Oncore module believed to be a UT+ when bought was in fact a
GT+
and didn't provide some of the T-RAIM messages the HP needs (the GT+ is
a
navigation receiver).
I have bought a Ref-0 and a Ref-1 unit from that guy in Florida, maybe
PyroJoe?
Some people around here did that, too.
The units were still shrink-wrapped, never been on a telecom tower.
The ref-1 units have the GPS-Receiver, the ref-0 units don't. Not even
an
antenna plug. The ref-1 units were quickly sold out, but nobody wanted
ref-0 w/o GPS. I got a price I could not refuse for the leftover ref-0
units,
each had a 5 MHz MTI-260 oven as hot spare (so does have the ref-1).
I ended up with abt. 20 ovens. :-) Better deal than those Chinese MV89A
that are removed from their boards with hammer & sickle and best used
for
5 MHz SC crystals.
I have a back burner project of locking a lot of these MTI-260 slooowly
to the GPS source and Wilkinson-combine the outputs together with the
intent to get 222* 3dB phase noise improvement. The board for 4
oscillators is still in statu nascendi. Ḿaybe XMESS.
The 10 MHz test point of the ref0 has ugly phase noise.
I made a doubler/distributor for the ref1, directly from the oven.
Nothing special, mostly LM6702 or ad8000 CFB op amps.
< http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/DoubDist.pdf >
That's very useful - I noticed the 10MHz test port fed to SA seemed a bit
"messy" in the unlocked state and good to have
an excuse to test a few crystals on the VNA and also the distribution
amplifier is useful (especially one that doesn't do DC
restoration!)
Please, where is that stuff from Peter Garde?
The (excellent) article I found was this
And it all worked - it's just that with the wrong oncore, 36s after
initiation of the module it went into a GPS error state which seemed from
my analysis to be
lack of an @@En message from Oncore. It just looped around doing that -
although it determined my position fine and tracked 6 or so
satelites (cheap window antenna).
Alan