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Cruising America's Great Loop and other inland routes
View all threadsU.S. boats in Canadian waters
From the Canadian gov't. website:
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.
*The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding
tank(s) is/are installed so that;
*The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment
receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
*Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a
deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of
toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
*No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means
mentioned above.
*All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one
another and the boat.
I guess this means composting toilets like the airhead are illegal?
Sounds like a Y-valve for overboard discharge is also illegal?
This is different than the US requirement that the Y-valve be locked out of
the overboard discharge side. I may have to re-think my plan for this summer
to visit Ontario, I'm not ripping out my Y-valves and overboard discharge
lines. Not sure at all what that last line means.
Ed K
Ed:
The answer to your concern lies in the paragraph just prior to the
one you quote. The website states, "...a pleasure craft fitted with
a toilet must also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a
piping system that allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard,
then this discharge must be visibly disconnected."
The solution is to close the thru-hull for the macerator discharge,
remove one end of the discharge hose leading to the thru-hull, and
put a wooden plug into the thru-hull as a safety measure to minimize
risk of leaking.
That way, you have "visibly disconnected" the discharge. By the way,
I would also wire the thru-hull closed so there is no chance of
scuttling the ship. Once back in US waters, or when the fancy
strikes you, put the hose back together. It isn't a big job at all.
The bit about "congruent" just means "compatible" or "harmonious" or
"appropriate." Any professionally installed holding tank will most
likely be so.
Bill
At 07:57 AM 2/19/2009, ed wrote:
From the Canadian gov't. website:
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.
*The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding
tank(s) is/are installed so that;
..snip...
I may have to re-think my plan for this summer
to visit Ontario, I'm not ripping out my Y-valves and overboard discharge
lines. Not sure at all what that last line means.
Ed K
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop
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unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop
What if you have a lectrasan?
What if you are coastal cruising up the Nova Scotia coast and want to go off
shore 3 miles to discharge?
You say it's easy to disconnect hoses...speak for yourself! I'm in the
process of replacing my head hoses. They are VERY difficult to access.
Removing hoses can damage the hose. I spent $120 for the forward hose and
about $100 for the aft hose. I don't have a macerator on the holding tank or
I'd have 2 more hoses to disconnect. A LOT of difficult work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Donovan" trailersource@mindspring.com
Ed:
The answer to your concern lies in the paragraph just prior to the one you
quote. The website states, "...a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet must
also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system that
allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge
must be visibly disconnected."
The solution is to close the thru-hull for the macerator discharge, remove
one end of the discharge hose leading to the thru-hull, and put a wooden
plug into the thru-hull as a safety measure to minimize risk of leaking.
That way, you have "visibly disconnected" the discharge. By the way, I
would also wire the thru-hull closed so there is no chance of scuttling
the ship. Once back in US waters, or when the fancy strikes you, put the
hose back together. It isn't a big job at all.
The bit about "congruent" just means "compatible" or "harmonious" or
"appropriate." Any professionally installed holding tank will most likely
be so.
Bill
At 07:57 AM 2/19/2009, ed wrote:
From the Canadian gov't. website:
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.
*The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the
holding
tank(s) is/are installed so that;
..snip...
I may have to re-think my plan for this summer
to visit Ontario, I'm not ripping out my Y-valves and overboard discharge
lines. Not sure at all what that last line means.
Ed K
I knew we'd hear a lot of feedback on this one, let's try and keep it
straight. Transport Canada states that the rules only apply to Ontario waters
and a few inland lakes in BC and Manitoba. Therefore if you are 3 miles off
Nova Scotia , hold it in or let it flow!
There was no mention of incinerating toilets, they are by their nature holding
tanks without overboard discharge. The end product is supposed to be dry and
meant to be carried ashore.
I totally agree that it is a pain in the butt to remove discharge hoses.
The tone of several posts on this topic seem to denote a bit of outrage that
we should have to put up with these rules. We would all do well to remember
that that we are privileged to be allowed unrestricted access to cruise in
Canadian waters, unlike many other much more restrictive countries.
Warren
----- Original Message -----
Subjectmailto:great-loop@Subject: Re: GL: U.S. boats in Canadian waters
What if you are coastal cruising up the Nova Scotia coast and want to go off
shore 3 miles to discharge?
Ed,
Check out www.turncouple.com. An interesting product that addresses the
issue you face.
Ted Stehle, Editor
Waterway Guide/Skipper Bob Publications
www.waterwayguide.com
www.skipperbob.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "ed" ekcine@gmail.com
To: "Bill Donovan" trailersource@mindspring.com
Cc: great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: GL: U.S. boats in Canadian waters
What if you have a lectrasan?
What if you are coastal cruising up the Nova Scotia coast and want to go
off
shore 3 miles to discharge?
You say it's easy to disconnect hoses...speak for yourself! I'm in the
process of replacing my head hoses. They are VERY difficult to access.
Removing hoses can damage the hose. I spent $120 for the forward hose and
about $100 for the aft hose. I don't have a macerator on the holding tank
or
I'd have 2 more hoses to disconnect. A LOT of difficult work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Donovan" trailersource@mindspring.com
Ed:
The answer to your concern lies in the paragraph just prior to the one
you
quote. The website states, "...a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet
must
also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system
that
allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge
must be visibly disconnected."
The solution is to close the thru-hull for the macerator discharge,
remove
one end of the discharge hose leading to the thru-hull, and put a wooden
plug into the thru-hull as a safety measure to minimize risk of leaking.
That way, you have "visibly disconnected" the discharge. By the way, I
would also wire the thru-hull closed so there is no chance of scuttling
the ship. Once back in US waters, or when the fancy strikes you, put the
hose back together. It isn't a big job at all.
The bit about "congruent" just means "compatible" or "harmonious" or
"appropriate." Any professionally installed holding tank will most
likely
be so.
Bill
At 07:57 AM 2/19/2009, ed wrote:
From the Canadian gov't. website:
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.
*The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the
holding
tank(s) is/are installed so that;
..snip...
I may have to re-think my plan for this summer
to visit Ontario, I'm not ripping out my Y-valves and overboard discharge
lines. Not sure at all what that last line means.
Ed K
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop
Ted
Thanks for the interesting product. I think I'll try one. I haven't
installed the last piece of head hose to the seacock barb yet. This will
make it much easier regardless of potty law.
My apologies for misreading the website. It does indeed only apply to inland
waters. No help to me now, but not an issue for coastal cruisers in places
like Nova Scotia. I had a conversation with someone from Vancouver. He said
they almost made the law the same there as for inland waters. The only
saving grace was the lack of pumpout facilities. When the pumpout facilities
are in place...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Stehle" tstehle@waterwayguide.com
To: "ed" ekcine@gmail.com; "Bill Donovan" trailersource@mindspring.com
Cc: great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: GL: U.S. boats in Canadian waters
Ed,
Check out www.turncouple.com. An interesting product that addresses the
issue you face.
Ted Stehle, Editor
Waterway Guide/Skipper Bob Publications
www.waterwayguide.com
www.skipperbob.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "ed" ekcine@gmail.com
To: "Bill Donovan" trailersource@mindspring.com
Cc: great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: GL: U.S. boats in Canadian waters
What if you have a lectrasan?
What if you are coastal cruising up the Nova Scotia coast and want to go
off
shore 3 miles to discharge?
You say it's easy to disconnect hoses...speak for yourself! I'm in the
process of replacing my head hoses. They are VERY difficult to access.
Removing hoses can damage the hose. I spent $120 for the forward hose and
about $100 for the aft hose. I don't have a macerator on the holding tank
or
I'd have 2 more hoses to disconnect. A LOT of difficult work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Donovan" trailersource@mindspring.com
Ed:
The answer to your concern lies in the paragraph just prior to the one
you
quote. The website states, "...a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet
must
also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system
that
allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge
must be visibly disconnected."
The solution is to close the thru-hull for the macerator discharge,
remove
one end of the discharge hose leading to the thru-hull, and put a wooden
plug into the thru-hull as a safety measure to minimize risk of leaking.
That way, you have "visibly disconnected" the discharge. By the way, I
would also wire the thru-hull closed so there is no chance of scuttling
the ship. Once back in US waters, or when the fancy strikes you, put
the
hose back together. It isn't a big job at all.
The bit about "congruent" just means "compatible" or "harmonious" or
"appropriate." Any professionally installed holding tank will most
likely
be so.
Bill
At 07:57 AM 2/19/2009, ed wrote:
From the Canadian gov't. website:
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.
*The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the
holding
tank(s) is/are installed so that;
..snip...
I may have to re-think my plan for this summer
to visit Ontario, I'm not ripping out my Y-valves and overboard
discharge
lines. Not sure at all what that last line means.
Ed K
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop
I put one Turncouple on Sanderling last year before heading north, just
to see how well it would work. Used the one with pipe threads on one end
and hose barb on the other because I attached one side of it to the
thru-hull itself. Have never had occasion to disconnect it for legal
requirements, but if necessary it would be very easy to do since it's
located under the sink against the hull in the forward head. This one
was on the Lectrasan discharge hose for the forward Lectrasan.
I'm in the process of placing an order for two more to use on the
macerator side of our two holding tanks. (The aft Lectrasan has a
plumbing setup on the discharge side that I can disconnect at the
Lectrasan itself using some standard PVC fittings).
Of course, accessibility to the hose is the big factor. If you can't
easily get to the thru-hull itself, you can cut the hose in a location
where it is easier to reach and use the Turncouple with a hose barb on
each side. You can then cap the exposed ends when you take out the
center piece. I wouldn't do that (cut the hose) unless the location is
above the water line.
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
On 2/19/2009 12:58 PM, ed wrote:
Ted
Thanks for the interesting product. I think I'll try one. I haven't
installed the last piece of head hose to the seacock barb yet. This will
make it much easier regardless of potty law.
Ed, et al. I have been researching the use of composting toilets for my boat for several years. I know that Sun-Mar makes several different versions specifically designed for use on a boat and that hardware stores in Ontario sell them.
As a Canadian, I have some problems with stores selling them if they are illegal. As it seems from your post that you will be using the Canadian waters before I will be (my boat will be in dry dock for a year or two yet) I would suggest that you contact whatever agency supplied that info and directly ask them about composting toilets.
As for your discharge lines, can you not remove a part to isolate the black water tank from the discharge? That would satisfy the requirement. Again, I would contact the respective agency and ask. In fact, I would email or snail mail because that way I would have a written record of the requirements. It could save a problem down the road if you were inspected and the inspector interpreted that section differently.
Rob
From the Canadian gov't. website:
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.
*The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and
the holding
tank(s) is/are installed so that;
*The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that
the equipment
receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
*Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is
provided with a
deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the
removal of
toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
*No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the
means
mentioned above.
*All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are
congruent with one
another and the boat.
I guess this means composting toilets like the airhead are illegal?
Sounds like a Y-valve for overboard discharge is also illegal?
This is different than the US requirement that the Y-valve be
locked out of
the overboard discharge side. I may have to re-think my plan for
this summer
to visit Ontario, I'm not ripping out my Y-valves and overboard
discharge
lines. Not sure at all what that last line means.
Ed K
With the VacuFlush sysem it is easy to disconnect the hose between the holding
tank and the pump out (macerator) pump. Tapered wooden plugs such as used for
ruptured hoses or broken seacocks tan be used to insure watertight integrity.
Jon on Valentine
From: ROBERT ZANUSSI
rzanussi@shaw.ca
To: ed ekcine@gmail.com
Cc: great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:10:28 PM
Subject: Re: GL: U.S. boats in
Canadian waters
Ed, et al. I have been researching the use of composting
toilets for my boat for several years. I know that Sun-Mar makes several
different versions specifically designed for use on a boat and that hardware
stores in Ontario sell them.
As a Canadian, I have some problems with stores
selling them if they are illegal. As it seems from your post that you will be
using the Canadian waters before I will be (my boat will be in dry dock for a
year or two yet) I would suggest that you contact whatever agency supplied
that info and directly ask them about composting toilets.
As for your
discharge lines, can you not remove a part to isolate the black water tank
from the discharge? That would satisfy the requirement. Again, I would
contact the respective agency and ask. In fact, I would email or snail mail
because that way I would have a written record of the requirements. It could
save a problem down the road if you were inspected and the inspector
interpreted that section differently.
Rob
From the Canadian gov't.
website:
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario
waters.
*The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and
the holding
tank(s) is/are installed so that;
*The toilet and equipment
are connected in such a manner that
the equipment
receives all toilet
waste from the toilet.
*Equipment designed for the storage of human
excrement is
provided with a
deck fitting and such connecting piping as
is necessary for the
removal of
toilet waste by shore-based pumping
equipment.
*No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the
means
mentioned above.
*All parts of the system for removal of toilet
waste are
congruent with one
another and the boat.
I guess this
means composting toilets like the airhead are illegal?
Sounds like a Y-valve
for overboard discharge is also illegal?
This is different than the US
requirement that the Y-valve be
locked out of
the overboard discharge
side. I may have to re-think my plan for
this summer
to visit Ontario,
I'm not ripping out my Y-valves and overboard
discharge
lines. Not sure
at all what that last line means.
Ed K
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop
To modify your
Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go
to: http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop
I put one Turncouple on Sanderling last year before heading north, just
to see how well it would work.
There is also a piece called a "PVC union" that will serve the same purpose,
and can be bought at any hardware store. Couple these with the "PVC to hose"
adapters that Sealand makes and you can make your own disconnects that makes
it easy. You can even use two of these with a piece of hose between, then
make blanks to seal the ends off with a third union and a couple of pvc
caps. These are generally under $10 each at somewhere like Home Depot.
I put one at each end of my Sealand overboard discharge pump to serve the
dual purpose of making it easy to remove the pump for maintenance and to
disconnect the overboard for these areas that require such.
Brent Hodges