Re: T&T: Important - Attention All Foreign Flagged Cruising
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 21:36:24 -0800 (PST)
From: A H FOSTER capt.bill11@Verizon.net
Subject: Re: T&T: Important - Attention All Foreign Flagged Cruising
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:03:49 -0800
From: "ralph" ancora@cox.net
Subject: Re: T&T: Important - Attention All Foreign Flagged Cruising
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To: "trawler world" trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
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I'll bet all the owners of foreign flagged mega yachts are quaking in
their
Guccis.
Ralph Salerno
M/V ANCORA
San Diego
Not in the least. But their captains might be.
Capt. Bill
M/V Golden Touch
Foreign Flagged in the C.I.
Just got off the phone with homeland security here in Ft. Lauderdale and they confirmed what I thought I knew to be true. A foreign flagged vessel, with a valid cruising permit, only has to report their movements/check in when they leave one district and move into another. Just as it has always been. Not when they move around in the same district. It becomes a bit of a PITA in some areas because the districts are close together and the rule is more enforced now than it was in the passed.
It is a $5000 fine for EVERY district you do not check in with. This happen to a captain a year or so ago, where he cleared customs in Miami and moved up to Boston (as I recall) while stopping at a few places in between without checking in. His fine was something like $15,000.
Capt. Bill
Just got off the phone with homeland security here in Ft. Lauderdale
and they confirmed what I thought I knew to be true. A foreign
flagged vessel, with a valid cruising permit, only has to report
their movements/check in when they leave one district and move into
another. Just as it has always been. Not when they move around in the
same district. It becomes a bit of a PITA in some areas because the
districts are close together and the rule is more enforced now than
it was in the passed.
It is a $5000 fine for EVERY district you do not check in with. This
happen to a captain a year or so ago, where he
Bill,
I am pretty sure that your interpretation is correct. I have a query
into my contact at customs to confirm it.
I believe that the confusion arises from the fact that the Cruising
License has language that at least implies, even if it does not state
explicitly, that you have to report in at every port. It has been some
years since I had one to examine and can't recall exactly what the
language was.
In any event, I do recall that when I asked for clarification some years
ago, I was told to report the boat in only when moving to another
district. I believe that what is going on, is confusion over semantics,
in that the customs service interprets reporting in at each port, to
mean every district. After all, each DISTRICT has a different supervisor
and different security issues.
Now as to how to know when a boundary has been crossed. The districts
are roughly along state lines. I found a text list of districts and I
did not find an exception. However, I may have missed something along
the US East Coast. It may be that a couple of the smaller states like
CT, RI are consolidated into one district with an adjacent state.
Also, I assume that the boundary actually follows the state boundary,
but do not have confirmation of this. I suspect that this is the case,
but there may be an exception or two, that I am not aware of.
In other words, someone could get into trouble by not reporting in, when
crossing a state boundary, say like from one side of the Columbia River
to the other, since WA is on the North side and Oregon on the South
side. Or, perhaps someplace where the customs boundary does not follow
the state boundary.
I hope this helps, but it can be confusing. It is real easy to make a
mistake and get into to trouble over this.
Mike
Capt. Mike Maurice
Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)
I think I can resolve the question about US Customs District Boundaries.
Whereas the boundaries are roughly along state boundaries, there are
exceptions. In fact, it is VERY messy.
There are 2 districts in CA.
The Columbia River District, includes some of Oregon, Washington and
Boise ID.
NY has 3 districts.
There are a couple of districts that have 3 states in them.
Like the Columbia River one.
The only safe tactic is to have a list of all the Districts with their
"Ports" and to be very careful when cruising along the boundary edges.
I will provide a link to this information, with a more detailed summary,
later. The detail list is about 10 pages in length.
Mike
Capt. Mike Maurice
Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)
Mike - thanks for the information which you have posted regarding this mess.
From your perspective would you say that, as things stand now, if I
were to take our boat into the San Juan Islands that I would have to
call Customs and Immigration every time I moved from one anchorage or
marina to another? If this is what it is going to require then I guess I
will cease to allow the compass to point south !! <grin>
Also what if any provision have they made for a boater who does not have
a cel-phone to report his change of location when he is anchored out in
a non populated area? What possible advantage to the Homeland Security
group is there for all this anyway. I mean when was the last "illegal"
immigrant charged with terrorism in the US?
Oh well, we waste our tax dollars on totally useless things like "high
speed ferries" and totally obsolete aircraft for our military so I guess
it all balances out.
Again, thanks for bringing this to our attention as no one that I have
spoken to at the marina here had any idea of this regulation.
Take care
John Tones "Penta"
Sidney, BC
John,
The Customs District in No. Washington Covers all of the coastline, plus
the Strait of Juan De Fuca, the San Juan Islands and Puget Sound.
I think you will find that US Customs considers most if not all of the
district as one "Port" and you can move around as you want without
constant checking in.
You can confirm this by asking the people at Friday Harbor, where I got
the info, today.
I realize all of this confusing, but don't get psyched out. I am pretty
sure that you will find things only slightly more difficult than in the
past.
Mike
Capt. Mike Maurice
Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)
Can anyone point out the relevant sections of the regulations on the CBP
website or legislation - or is all this just a hoax
How does it apply to the decal program - there is no cruising license
Anthony
On Feb 7, 2008 10:55 PM, Mike Maurice mikem@yachtsdelivered.com wrote:
John,
The Customs District in No. Washington Covers all of the coastline, plus
the Strait of Juan De Fuca, the San Juan Islands and Puget Sound.
I think you will find that US Customs considers most if not all of the
district as one "Port" and you can move around as you want without
constant checking in.
You can confirm this by asking the people at Friday Harbor, where I got
the info, today.
I realize all of this confusing, but don't get psyched out. I am pretty
sure that you will find things only slightly more difficult than in the
past.
Mike
Capt. Mike Maurice
Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)
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Can anyone point out the relevant sections of the regulations on the CBP
website or legislation - or is all this just a hoax
How does it apply to the decal program - there is no cruising license
First question.
Good point, no I can't refer you to the Regs.
All this applies only to the Customs Cruising License.
The language on the License is the technical basis on which you cruise.
I quote below the response I got from the Friday Harbor Office.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If you look in 19 CFR 4.94(d) you will see the wording of the
cruising license. The pertinent portion reads ..."upon arrival at each
port or place in the United States, the master shall report the fact of
arrival to the nearest customs officer at the nearest customshouse.
Such report shall be immediately made."...
"Districts" usually have a number of ports and places at which
vessels may arrive.
I think the regulation based on the law and the international
treaty that set up cruising licenses for signatory countries trumps a
local reading over the telephone. However, there some areas, such as
Puget Sound where there are a number of small ports (each with its own
port code) but there has been established a thing called the "Port of
Puget Sound" which umbrellas those ports for such purposes as cruising
licenses.
As for the decal program. None of this applies to it. Frankly I don't
understand the question.
I think what you are trying to ask is whether the interpretation of the
term "report at each port", is written in stone or varies by district
and the security circumstances at the time. I think you can assume that
it varies. That you find out by checking in with each district and get
the clearance number and their interpretation at the time.
Mike
Capt. Mike Maurice
Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)