HP 10811 update
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811. Mine is 45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and have found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to produce 5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like a
shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of circuit
yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this transistor is its beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close. May just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429.
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in the
80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27 volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811. Mine is 45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and have found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to produce 5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like a
shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of circuit
yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this transistor is its beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close. May just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429.
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in the
80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it
repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27 volts
should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811. Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to produce 5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like a
shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of circuit
yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this transistor is its beta
at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close. May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429.
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in the
80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason
it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator
was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it
repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27 volts
should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811. Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to produce
5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like a
shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of circuit
yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this transistor is its
beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close. May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429.
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in the
80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Sorry mate, this isn't much help, I haven't heave of any of these, must be before my time?!
Mat
Struct
Pc
Ucb
Uce
Ueb
Ic
Tj
Ft
Cc, pF
Hfe
Caps
2N6429http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=5816
Si
NPN
0.625
55
45
6
0.2
175
100
3
400
TO92
NTE2341http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=44370
Si
NPN
1
100
80
7
1
2000
TO92
NTE46http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=44457
Si
NPN
0.625
100
100
12
0.5
10000
TO92
NTE48http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=44458
Si
NPN
1
60
50
12
1
25000
TO92
SM2285http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=45948
Si
NPN
1
0
100
0
0.2
200
150
600
TO92
STL73Dhttp://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=50901
Si
NPN
0
700
400
0
1.5
0
TO92
STX112http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=50927
Si
NPN
0
100
100
0
2
1000
TO92
STX616http://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=50930
Si
NPN
0
980
500
0
1.5
0
TO92
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:29 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole transistors.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.commailto:paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote:
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp <lists@rtty.usmailto:lists@rtty.us> wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it
repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27
volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.commailto:paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811.
Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and
have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to
produce
5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like
a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of
circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this
transistor is its
beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close.
May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429.
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in
the 80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.commailto:time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.commailto:time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.commailto:time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80.
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70214870&mkwid=szEc5
jMBI&pcrid=23468365337&pkw=nte123ap&pmt=e&pdv=c&gclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV7AodJA
sAWQ
Good luck.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason it
has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator
was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it
repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27
volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811.
Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and
have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to
produce
5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like
a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of
circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this
transistor is its
beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close.
May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in
the 80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I find it hard to believe that NTE spec the 123AP to replace a transistor
with min beta of 500...
This is quite entertaining:
http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1856
Look at the parts it's supposed to replace.
(Nothing against Vetco - they are a great source of NTE components and are
local to me. They are just quoting what NTE claim.)
Orin.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net wrote:
The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80.
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70214870&mkwid=szEc5
jMBI&pcrid=23468365337&pkw=nte123ap&pmt=e&pdv=c&gclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV7AodJA
sAWQ
Good luck.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason
it
has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator
was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it
repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27
volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811.
Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and
have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to
produce
5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like
a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of
circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this
transistor is its
beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close.
May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in
the 80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
I totally agree that a 123 will not replace it. A luck would have it I have
12 X 2n3390 xsistors Beta 400-1000. These are the older TO-98s and I will
try one tonight.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Orin Eman orin.eman@gmail.com wrote:
I find it hard to believe that NTE spec the 123AP to replace a transistor
with min beta of 500...
This is quite entertaining:
http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1856
Look at the parts it's supposed to replace.
(Nothing against Vetco - they are a great source of NTE components and are
local to me. They are just quoting what NTE claim.)
Orin.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net wrote:
The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80.
jMBI&pcrid=23468365337&pkw=nte123ap&pmt=e&pdv=c&gclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV7AodJA
sAWQ
Good luck.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason
it
has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the
oscillator
was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it
repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27
volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811.
Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and
have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to
produce
5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like
a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of
circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this
transistor is its
beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty
amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close.
May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be
offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in
the 80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
FYI, The MPSA18RLRAG is a stock item at Digi-Key, min beta 500 at 1 & 10mA, 45V & 200mA rated, TO-92. $0.33 each.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MPSA18RLRAG/MPSA18RLRAGOSCT-ND/1139919
From: paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason
it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator
was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
Robert
I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last night,
its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured it
was a ebay leftover hunt. :-)
At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain.
Thanks.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Robert LaJeunesse <
rlajeunesse@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
FYI, The MPSA18RLRAG is a stock item at Digi-Key, min beta 500 at 1 &
10mA, 45V & 200mA rated, TO-92. $0.33 each.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MPSA18RLRAG/MPSA18RLRAGOSCT-ND/1139919
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason
it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and
buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the
oscillator
was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Very interesting list.
I wonder if that is a way to identify a cross from a manufacturer's P/N
(Tek, HP, Fluke, etc.) to a 'real' part?
Either that or all you need is a collection of NTE parts and never anything
else :).
I have used NTE parts to cross to 'unobtanium' in the past and, so far, it's
worked. However, my first choice is a 'new' item followed by 'NOS' followed
by 'used' then 'anything that will work'.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Orin Eman
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:01 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
I find it hard to believe that NTE spec the 123AP to replace a transistor
with min beta of 500...
This is quite entertaining:
http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1856
Look at the parts it's supposed to replace.
(Nothing against Vetco - they are a great source of NTE components and are
local to me. They are just quoting what NTE claim.)
Orin.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net wrote:
The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80.
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70214870&mkwid
=szEc5
jMBI&pcrid=23468365337&pkw=nte123ap&pmt=e&pdv=c&gclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV
7AodJA
sAWQ
Good luck.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a
reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator
and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the
oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with
it repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to
5.27 volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811.
Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per
the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and
have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to
produce
5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks
like a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it
out of circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this
transistor is its
beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats
pretty amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something
close.
May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like
the
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may
be offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is
in the 80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go
to
and follow the instructions there.
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NTE is actually a conglomeration of old parts cross reference stuff. Mostly
from the TV and radio days. They consolidated the consumer lines of
Motorola HEP, RCAs SK, and Sylvanias ECG lines to fill out the replacement
device business.
Thats when things could be repaired. So thats the reason the 123a can cover
a wide range. Its sort of a cross of a cross sort of fits thing.
Don't get me at all wrong with these comments. Glad they are around. But it
is the reality.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:50 AM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net wrote:
Very interesting list.
I wonder if that is a way to identify a cross from a manufacturer's P/N
(Tek, HP, Fluke, etc.) to a 'real' part?
Either that or all you need is a collection of NTE parts and never anything
else :).
I have used NTE parts to cross to 'unobtanium' in the past and, so far,
it's
worked. However, my first choice is a 'new' item followed by 'NOS'
followed
by 'used' then 'anything that will work'.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Orin Eman
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:01 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
I find it hard to believe that NTE spec the 123AP to replace a transistor
with min beta of 500...
This is quite entertaining:
http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1856
Look at the parts it's supposed to replace.
(Nothing against Vetco - they are a great source of NTE components and are
local to me. They are just quoting what NTE claim.)
Orin.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net wrote:
The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80.
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70214870&mkwid
=szEc5
jMBI&pcrid=23468365337&pkw=nte123ap&pmt=e&pdv=c&gclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV
7AodJA
sAWQ
Good luck.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a
reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator
and buffer.
I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the
oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8.
The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole
transistors.
Regards
Paul.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
I can hope
I will embed a k thermocouple also.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with
it repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to
5.27 volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz.
Bob
On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811.
Mine is
45
Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per
the
various
other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and
have
found
that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to
produce
5.7V
and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks
like a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it
out of circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this
transistor is its
beta at
1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats
pretty amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something
close.
May
just
through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like
the
But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may
be offsetting the oscillator I hope.
Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is
in the 80-84C region.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
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paul swed wrote:
I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last night,
its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured it
was a ebay leftover hunt. :-)
At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain.
Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the
2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They
discontinued it recently, however.
Cheers
Stefan
Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said. That
ain't the issue.
Darn I hate when he is right. By the way the oscillator draws 26 ma approx
as a reference. Reassembled everything and let the oven heat up it settles
at 81C 15 min after start and within a respectable range of the temps
listed in the service manual. Measured with a K thermocouple. Freq is at
9.999955. or 45 Hz low
Tuning the variable cap has 20 Hz range and the cap was pretty much center
range. Have not played with the varicap but that should have a very small
effect.
I can easily adjust the temp setting R to raise the xtal temp. But that
seems like a jerry rig.
Could a xtal of this quality simply go bad over time?
Somewhat at a loss here.
I have a spare 10544 (Would not use the z3801 outer oven)and wonder if at
least I could use that with the Z3801. Anyone know if the efc would work?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Heinzmann
stefan_heinzmann@gmx.dewrote:
paul swed wrote:
I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last night,
its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured it
was a ebay leftover hunt. :-)
At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain.
Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the
2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/**2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They
discontinued it recently, however.
Cheers
Stefan
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On 7/25/2013 8:32 PM, paul swed wrote:
Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said. That
ain't the issue.
this may is a dumb question:
Lower than expected frequency means some extra capacitance in parallel
or not enough in series with the crystal... ?
Would that put suspicion on C4 (0.1uF between crystal and Q1)?
Hi
Ok, since it's moved down and it's about on temperature there are a couple of likely possibilities:
- The crystal leaks and there's air in it
- The trap coil(s) / capacitor(s) have changed value
- The varicap is shorted / forward biased
Normal factory troubleshoot (after checking the varicap) would be to swap the crystal and see if the problem follows the crystal or the oscillator. Yes, I know, that's not very helpful in this case - sorry about that.
Bob
On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:32 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said. That
ain't the issue.
Darn I hate when he is right. By the way the oscillator draws 26 ma approx
as a reference. Reassembled everything and let the oven heat up it settles
at 81C 15 min after start and within a respectable range of the temps
listed in the service manual. Measured with a K thermocouple. Freq is at
9.999955. or 45 Hz low
Tuning the variable cap has 20 Hz range and the cap was pretty much center
range. Have not played with the varicap but that should have a very small
effect.
I can easily adjust the temp setting R to raise the xtal temp. But that
seems like a jerry rig.
Could a xtal of this quality simply go bad over time?
Somewhat at a loss here.
I have a spare 10544 (Would not use the z3801 outer oven)and wonder if at
least I could use that with the Z3801. Anyone know if the efc would work?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Heinzmann
stefan_heinzmann@gmx.dewrote:
paul swed wrote:
I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last night,
its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured it
was a ebay leftover hunt. :-)
At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain.
Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the
2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/**2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They
discontinued it recently, however.
Cheers
Stefan
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Good comments. Indeed I will order up a new xtal from digi-key. They should
be in stock any day now. I do agree with the comment on the cap in
parallel. I had not thought about the series cap dropping and there is a
.1uf as I recall. Need to look. The varicap seems to work very well so
don't believe thats an issue.
Will do some more hunting.
By the way as a heads up the top and bottom cover of the xtal compartment
are actually a pain to screw back together.
Anyone have a sense of the Hz change per degree C?
Thanks
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Ok, since it's moved down and it's about on temperature there are a
couple of likely possibilities:
- The crystal leaks and there's air in it
- The trap coil(s) / capacitor(s) have changed value
- The varicap is shorted / forward biased
Normal factory troubleshoot (after checking the varicap) would be to swap
the crystal and see if the problem follows the crystal or the oscillator.
Yes, I know, that's not very helpful in this case - sorry about that.
Bob
On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:32 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said. That
ain't the issue.
Darn I hate when he is right. By the way the oscillator draws 26 ma
approx
as a reference. Reassembled everything and let the oven heat up it
settles
at 81C 15 min after start and within a respectable range of the temps
listed in the service manual. Measured with a K thermocouple. Freq is at
9.999955. or 45 Hz low
Tuning the variable cap has 20 Hz range and the cap was pretty much
center
range. Have not played with the varicap but that should have a very small
effect.
I can easily adjust the temp setting R to raise the xtal temp. But that
seems like a jerry rig.
Could a xtal of this quality simply go bad over time?
Somewhat at a loss here.
I have a spare 10544 (Would not use the z3801 outer oven)and wonder if at
least I could use that with the Z3801. Anyone know if the efc would work?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Heinzmann
stefan_heinzmann@gmx.dewrote:
paul swed wrote:
I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last
night,
its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured
it
was a ebay leftover hunt. :-)
At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain.
Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the
2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/**2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They
discontinued it recently, however.
Cheers
Stefan
_____________**
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Hi
HP spec'd the crystals to be at a < 1x10^-8 / C slope at the marked temperature on the crystal. The center of the curve should be in the vicinity of 90C.
You are ~ -4.5 x 10^-6 low, so that would be > 10 C away from that point going cold and a bit further going hot. Since the oven is at ~80C, it's not to hot…
Bob
On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:09 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Good comments. Indeed I will order up a new xtal from digi-key. They should
be in stock any day now. I do agree with the comment on the cap in
parallel. I had not thought about the series cap dropping and there is a
.1uf as I recall. Need to look. The varicap seems to work very well so
don't believe thats an issue.
Will do some more hunting.
By the way as a heads up the top and bottom cover of the xtal compartment
are actually a pain to screw back together.
Anyone have a sense of the Hz change per degree C?
Thanks
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Ok, since it's moved down and it's about on temperature there are a
couple of likely possibilities:
- The crystal leaks and there's air in it
- The trap coil(s) / capacitor(s) have changed value
- The varicap is shorted / forward biased
Normal factory troubleshoot (after checking the varicap) would be to swap
the crystal and see if the problem follows the crystal or the oscillator.
Yes, I know, that's not very helpful in this case - sorry about that.
Bob
On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:32 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said. That
ain't the issue.
Darn I hate when he is right. By the way the oscillator draws 26 ma
approx
as a reference. Reassembled everything and let the oven heat up it
settles
at 81C 15 min after start and within a respectable range of the temps
listed in the service manual. Measured with a K thermocouple. Freq is at
9.999955. or 45 Hz low
Tuning the variable cap has 20 Hz range and the cap was pretty much
center
range. Have not played with the varicap but that should have a very small
effect.
I can easily adjust the temp setting R to raise the xtal temp. But that
seems like a jerry rig.
Could a xtal of this quality simply go bad over time?
Somewhat at a loss here.
I have a spare 10544 (Would not use the z3801 outer oven)and wonder if at
least I could use that with the Z3801. Anyone know if the efc would work?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Heinzmann
stefan_heinzmann@gmx.dewrote:
paul swed wrote:
I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last
night,
its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured
it
was a ebay leftover hunt. :-)
At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain.
Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the
2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/**2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They
discontinued it recently, however.
Cheers
Stefan
_____________**
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To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
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sounds like time to add a R across the temp set R. That will lower the R
and raise the temp. Its also easy to actually do.
Thanks
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
HP spec'd the crystals to be at a < 1x10^-8 / C slope at the marked
temperature on the crystal. The center of the curve should be in the
vicinity of 90C.
You are ~ -4.5 x 10^-6 low, so that would be > 10 C away from that point
going cold and a bit further going hot. Since the oven is at ~80C, it's not
to hot…
Bob
On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:09 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Good comments. Indeed I will order up a new xtal from digi-key. They
should
be in stock any day now. I do agree with the comment on the cap in
parallel. I had not thought about the series cap dropping and there is a
.1uf as I recall. Need to look. The varicap seems to work very well so
don't believe thats an issue.
Will do some more hunting.
By the way as a heads up the top and bottom cover of the xtal compartment
are actually a pain to screw back together.
Anyone have a sense of the Hz change per degree C?
Thanks
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
Ok, since it's moved down and it's about on temperature there are a
couple of likely possibilities:
- The crystal leaks and there's air in it
- The trap coil(s) / capacitor(s) have changed value
- The varicap is shorted / forward biased
Normal factory troubleshoot (after checking the varicap) would be to
swap
the crystal and see if the problem follows the crystal or the
oscillator.
Yes, I know, that's not very helpful in this case - sorry about that.
Bob
On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:32 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said.
That
ain't the issue.
Darn I hate when he is right. By the way the oscillator draws 26 ma
approx
as a reference. Reassembled everything and let the oven heat up it
settles
at 81C 15 min after start and within a respectable range of the temps
listed in the service manual. Measured with a K thermocouple. Freq is
at
9.999955. or 45 Hz low
Tuning the variable cap has 20 Hz range and the cap was pretty much
center
range. Have not played with the varicap but that should have a very
small
effect.
I can easily adjust the temp setting R to raise the xtal temp. But that
seems like a jerry rig.
Could a xtal of this quality simply go bad over time?
Somewhat at a loss here.
I have a spare 10544 (Would not use the z3801 outer oven)and wonder if
at
least I could use that with the Z3801. Anyone know if the efc would
work?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Heinzmann
stefan_heinzmann@gmx.dewrote:
paul swed wrote:
I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last
night,
its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured
it
was a ebay leftover hunt. :-)
At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain.
Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the
2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/**2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They
discontinued it recently, however.
Cheers
Stefan
_____________**
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To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
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Hi Paul,
Did you see this page that talks about tweaking the 10811 oven controller?
http://www.realhamradio.com/z3801a-turning-point.htm
Ed
On 7/26/2013 10:47 AM, paul swed wrote:
sounds like time to add a R across the temp set R. That will lower the R
and raise the temp. Its also easy to actually do.
Thanks
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
Hi
HP spec'd the crystals to be at a < 1x10^-8 / C slope at the marked
temperature on the crystal. The center of the curve should be in the
vicinity of 90C.
You are ~ -4.5 x 10^-6 low, so that would be > 10 C away from that point
going cold and a bit further going hot. Since the oven is at ~80C, it's not
to hot…
Bob