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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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is there a "best bet" advanced hobbyist buildable GPSDO design?

BG
Bruce Griffiths
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 1:46 AM
  1. Bruce and others, you should really check your links before
    posting them. On
    this page was a link to get the full PDF of the schematic. When
    you click on
    that, you get a 404 not found plus you get a popup ad.  Worse
    still, if you
    click on the schematic to "enlarge" it, instead of getting the schematic
    you get a full page PORN ad.

Have just checked I dont see any PORN site, the problem may be at your end.
However I do get an extraneous nonporn  popup window
Will try to locate reliable links to the actual pdf files for these
circuits.

Failing that I've actually downloaded them and can send them to anyone
who wants them.

Bruce

>> >> 2. Bruce and others, you should really check your links before >> posting them. On >> this page was a link to get the full PDF of the schematic. When >> you click on >> that, you get a 404 not found plus you get a popup ad. Worse >> still, if you >> click on the schematic to "enlarge" it, instead of getting the schematic >> you get a full page PORN ad. >> >> > > Have just checked I dont see any PORN site, the problem may be at your end. However I do get an extraneous nonporn popup window Will try to locate reliable links to the actual pdf files for these circuits. Failing that I've actually downloaded them and can send them to anyone who wants them. Bruce
BG
Bruce Griffiths
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 1:57 AM

Revised Super regulator link is:

http://www.sjostromaudio.com/_unsql/hifi/

However this may change as the website is in process of moving.
It works at the moment.

Bruce

Revised Super regulator link is: http://www.sjostromaudio.com/_unsql/hifi/ However this may change as the website is in process of moving. It works at the moment. Bruce
ME
Matt Ettus
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:05 AM

He has "ultra high performance rectifier bridges".  Sounds like snake oil to me.

Matt

On Dec 13, 2007 5:57 PM, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz wrote:

Revised Super regulator link is:

http://www.sjostromaudio.com/_unsql/hifi/

However this may change as the website is in process of moving.
It works at the moment.

Bruce


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He has "ultra high performance rectifier bridges". Sounds like snake oil to me. Matt On Dec 13, 2007 5:57 PM, Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Revised Super regulator link is: > > http://www.sjostromaudio.com/_unsql/hifi/ > > However this may change as the website is in process of moving. > It works at the moment. > > Bruce > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
BG
Bruce Griffiths
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:15 AM

Matt Ettus wrote:

He has "ultra high performance rectifier bridges".  Sounds like snake oil to me.

Matt

Try looking at the circuit  before commenting.
Different culture express themselves in slightly different ways, its
best to study the actual circuit and think about what the designer may
mean by the term.
You will find that he actually uses fast recovery diodes with snubbers
to reduce RFI.
You also have to bear in mind the market into which he is selling these
devices, they expect some hype of this sort.

Bruce

Matt Ettus wrote: > He has "ultra high performance rectifier bridges". Sounds like snake oil to me. > > Matt > > Try looking at the circuit before commenting. Different culture express themselves in slightly different ways, its best to study the actual circuit and think about what the designer may mean by the term. You will find that he actually uses fast recovery diodes with snubbers to reduce RFI. You also have to bear in mind the market into which he is selling these devices, they expect some hype of this sort. Bruce
ME
Matt Ettus
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:25 AM

On Dec 13, 2007 6:15 PM, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz wrote:

Matt Ettus wrote:

He has "ultra high performance rectifier bridges".  Sounds like snake oil to me.

Matt

Try looking at the circuit  before commenting.

I did.

Different culture express themselves in slightly different ways, its
best to study the actual circuit and think about what the designer may
mean by the term.
You will find that he actually uses fast recovery diodes with snubbers
to reduce RFI.

Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you are going
to put capacitors across them?

You also have to bear in mind the market into which he is selling these
devices, they expect some hype of this sort.

The market he is selling into expects snake oil.

Matt

On Dec 13, 2007 6:15 PM, Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Matt Ettus wrote: > > He has "ultra high performance rectifier bridges". Sounds like snake oil to me. > > > > Matt > > > > > Try looking at the circuit before commenting. I did. > Different culture express themselves in slightly different ways, its > best to study the actual circuit and think about what the designer may > mean by the term. > You will find that he actually uses fast recovery diodes with snubbers > to reduce RFI. Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you are going to put capacitors across them? > You also have to bear in mind the market into which he is selling these > devices, they expect some hype of this sort. The market he is selling into expects snake oil. Matt
JP
Jeffrey Pawlan
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:40 AM

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Bruce Griffiths wrote:

Have just checked I dont see any P... site, the problem may be at your end.
However I do get an extraneous nonporn  popup window
Will try to locate reliable links to the actual pdf files for these
circuits.

Failing that I've actually downloaded them and can send them to anyone
who wants them.

Bruce

The problem is definitely not in my Sun workstation which is fortunately running
unix so it is impervious to all the bad people out there. But I have noticed
that sites target the locale of the IP address that is trying to access the URL.

Then depending on the laws of that country and also the whims of the site
owner, one will get very different things. So from New Zealand you are seeing
one thing and from Calif I am seeing another. It is referred to as targeted ads.

I saw that previously in another European site used by amateur radio operators.

Jeffrey

Spam detection software, running on the system "jeffrey150.pawlan.com", has
identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
jpawlan@pawlan.com for details.

Content preview:  On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Bruce Griffiths wrote: > Have just checked
I dont see any P... site, the problem may be at your end. > However I do
get an extraneous nonporn popup window > Will try to locate reliable links
to the actual pdf files for these > circuits. > > Failing that I've actually
downloaded them and can send them to anyone > who wants them. > > Bruce [...]

Content analysis details:  (13.6 points, 5.0 required)

pts rule name              description


-1.4 ALL_TRUSTED            Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP
15 JP_PORN                BODY: BODY: porn

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Bruce Griffiths wrote: > Have just checked I dont see any P... site, the problem may be at your end. > However I do get an extraneous nonporn popup window > Will try to locate reliable links to the actual pdf files for these > circuits. > > Failing that I've actually downloaded them and can send them to anyone > who wants them. > > Bruce The problem is definitely not in my Sun workstation which is fortunately running unix so it is impervious to all the bad people out there. But I have noticed that sites target the locale of the IP address that is trying to access the URL. Then depending on the laws of that country and also the whims of the site owner, one will get very different things. So from New Zealand you are seeing one thing and from Calif I am seeing another. It is referred to as targeted ads. I saw that previously in another European site used by amateur radio operators. Jeffrey Spam detection software, running on the system "jeffrey150.pawlan.com", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see jpawlan@pawlan.com for details. Content preview: On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Bruce Griffiths wrote: > Have just checked I dont see any P... site, the problem may be at your end. > However I do get an extraneous nonporn popup window > Will try to locate reliable links to the actual pdf files for these > circuits. > > Failing that I've actually downloaded them and can send them to anyone > who wants them. > > Bruce [...] Content analysis details: (13.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.4 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 15 JP_PORN BODY: BODY: porn
BG
Bruce Griffiths
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 2:47 AM

Matt
Matt Ettus wrote:

Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you are going
to put capacitors across them?

Even with the snubber networks the reverse conduction time of the fast
recovery diodes is considerably shorter than when a standard recovery
rectifier is used.
Its the high current pulse during rectifier reverse recovery time that
generates the RFI when standard recovery rectifiers are used.
The transformer leakage inductance also exacerbates the situation
especially if a shunt capacitor and/or snubber isnt placed across the
rectifier AC input close to the rectifier.
As long as the reverse recovery isnt too abrupt fast recovery diodes
generate less RFI (at least at low RF frequencies) than standard
recovery rectifiers even when the input frequency is relatively low
(50Hz, 60Hz etc).

The effect of the additional capacitors and snubbers (particularly the
one across the rectifier AC input) is noticeable even when using
standard recovery diodes.
You can detect the RFI generated by unsnubbed rectifiers with an AM
radio at surprisingly large distances, when properly snubbed you have to
get much closer.

You also have to bear in mind the market into which he is selling these
devices, they expect some hype of this sort.

The market he is selling into expects snake oil.

Thats why you have to make allowances.

Matt

Bruce

Matt Matt Ettus wrote: > Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you are going > to put capacitors across them? > > Even with the snubber networks the reverse conduction time of the fast recovery diodes is considerably shorter than when a standard recovery rectifier is used. Its the high current pulse during rectifier reverse recovery time that generates the RFI when standard recovery rectifiers are used. The transformer leakage inductance also exacerbates the situation especially if a shunt capacitor and/or snubber isnt placed across the rectifier AC input close to the rectifier. As long as the reverse recovery isnt too abrupt fast recovery diodes generate less RFI (at least at low RF frequencies) than standard recovery rectifiers even when the input frequency is relatively low (50Hz, 60Hz etc). The effect of the additional capacitors and snubbers (particularly the one across the rectifier AC input) is noticeable even when using standard recovery diodes. You can detect the RFI generated by unsnubbed rectifiers with an AM radio at surprisingly large distances, when properly snubbed you have to get much closer. >> You also have to bear in mind the market into which he is selling these >> devices, they expect some hype of this sort. >> > > The market he is selling into expects snake oil. > > Thats why you have to make allowances. > Matt > > Bruce
DJ
Didier Juges
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 3:23 AM

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
[mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Matt Ettus
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:25 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super Regulator links

Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you
are going to put capacitors across them?

Matt

We even use snubbers across Shottky and FRED rectifiers, in spite of what
the vendor's litterature claims.
Anything that is non linear in series with a magnetic structure (does not
have to be a transformer, a trace or wire long enough would do) is a
potential source of ringing and noise.

Didier KO4BB

> -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com > [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Matt Ettus > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:25 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Super Regulator links > > Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you > are going to put capacitors across them? > > Matt We even use snubbers across Shottky and FRED rectifiers, in spite of what the vendor's litterature claims. Anything that is non linear in series with a magnetic structure (does not have to be a transformer, a trace or wire long enough would do) is a potential source of ringing and noise. Didier KO4BB
JM
John Miles
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 3:34 AM

Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you are going
to put capacitors across them?

I can see using fast-recovery diodes if you want to rectify the output of a
switching supply, to limit the losses.  Ordinary 1N400x diodes start to run
very hot above a few kHz.  In a switcher, it would be reasonable to use
fast-recovery diodes with capacitors to control both EMI and loss.

But yeah, it's hard to see the point in a 50/60-Hz supply.  Schottkys have
less forward voltage drop, I guess, so maybe the idea is to use smaller
diodes/heat sinks for a given supply current.

-- john, KE5FX

> Can you explain to me the use of fast recovery diodes if you are going > to put capacitors across them? I can see using fast-recovery diodes if you want to rectify the output of a switching supply, to limit the losses. Ordinary 1N400x diodes start to run very hot above a few kHz. In a switcher, it would be reasonable to use fast-recovery diodes with capacitors to control both EMI and loss. But yeah, it's hard to see the point in a 50/60-Hz supply. Schottkys have less forward voltage drop, I guess, so maybe the idea is to use smaller diodes/heat sinks for a given supply current. -- john, KE5FX
BJ
Bob Johnson
Fri, Dec 14, 2007 4:20 AM

On Thursday 13 December 2007 09:40:39 pm Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:

The problem is definitely not in my Sun workstation which is fortunately
running unix so it is impervious to all the bad people out there. But I
have noticed that sites target the locale of the IP address that is trying
to access the URL.

For stuff like this, it matters less what operating system you use than what
web browser you use -- and they all have had vulnerabilities so make sure you
keep it updated.

You can also be attacked via the DNS server you use -- in which case your
operating system is completely irrelevant.

Then depending on the laws of that country and also the whims of the site
owner, one will get very different things. So from New Zealand you are
seeing one thing and from Calif I am seeing another. It is referred to as
targeted ads.

Don't know about this specific case, but it often has nothing to do with
the "whims of the site owner". If they sell advertising space through a third
party, they are at least partly at the mercy of who the third party resells
the ad space to. Even sites that sell through Google Ads get nailed with bad
stuff once in a while because people manage to sneak stuff past them.

  • Bob
On Thursday 13 December 2007 09:40:39 pm Jeffrey Pawlan wrote: > The problem is definitely not in my Sun workstation which is fortunately > running unix so it is impervious to all the bad people out there. But I > have noticed that sites target the locale of the IP address that is trying > to access the URL. For stuff like this, it matters less what operating system you use than what web browser you use -- and they all have had vulnerabilities so make sure you keep it updated. You can also be attacked via the DNS server you use -- in which case your operating system is completely irrelevant. > > Then depending on the laws of that country and also the whims of the site > owner, one will get very different things. So from New Zealand you are > seeing one thing and from Calif I am seeing another. It is referred to as > targeted ads. Don't know about this specific case, but it often has nothing to do with the "whims of the site owner". If they sell advertising space through a third party, they are at least partly at the mercy of who the third party resells the ad space to. Even sites that sell through Google Ads get nailed with bad stuff once in a while because people manage to sneak stuff past them. - Bob