Hi Hannu,

You left out the cost of having the spare wiring connected up.
Plus the spare wiring would be the same age as the original wiring and have
the same chance of failure as the original wire... it may have failed before
you connect it or if it has not it would have a lesser life span than a brand
new wire.

You undoubtedly have more experience than me but I can"t agree
with your logic. What makes far more sense to me is a. get the electrical
design right at the time of building, b. use good quality components, c. use
good quality labour, d. label the wiring and have correct wiring diagrams and
e. good access.

Cheers
John

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:17:53
+0100
From: hannu venermo hanermo@a2002sl.com
Subject: [PUP] Quality of
crafts in general - radar -
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 47400341.3030002@a2002sl.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I4m really glad my post got some interest.
I have 2 sample tests re: wiring.
Your masthead lights fail. Your front winch
electrical cabling (or
bowhruster) fails.
You need a new cable to any one or
all of these pieces of equipment.

Question 1: How long will it take to
install ? 1.b. At what cost ?
Please quote, everyone, from your experiences
and craft, what it would
take to install a new cable up the masthead and or
to the bow winch or
bowthruster.
This is  at the boatyard, what about at
anchor, making way, in bvi, st.
martin etc. where you have to wait/get parts
by fedex etc ?

I suspect or suggest that in the US

* Masthead: 1040 $ -

200$ cable plus 840$ (8 hours, 200$ in bits)
* Power to bow: 2240 $ - 1200
$ cable plus 840 $ installation (8
hours, 200$ in bits)

The extra cost
in originally installed redundant cables would have been
300-500 $. The cost
in installing dual cable or single cable, and the
fixtures (clips, ties,
mounts, screws, bedding etc.) are nearly
equivalent at build or refit time.
The labor cost is nearly identical.

Difference is 600% to 700% at boatyard in
the US !

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Has been very interesting to watch this thread.  Guess I just feel compelled
to chime in here with two comments.

1. Most failures in wiring I have seen and known have been at the
   connectors.  So, when fitting out our boat I typically put extra slack in on
   each end.  Allows for a few repairs of the terminals.  Combined with paying
   attention to installs (e.g. proper chafe, support, and drip loops) and a
   pull rope in the cavities is my overall approach.

2. I totally see the point brought forward by Hannu.  Too much seems to be
   placed on 'Your Must Haves', when in fact a rather modest fitting out brings
   what one truly NEEDS.    I applaud him for taking a practical view of
   things.  Now, having said that.  GPS is so cheap and reliable nowadays,
   seems an easy decision to carry a couple of these.  Spares cost under $100,
   and when combined with $20 of batteries and your paper charts (err, you all
   do have paper backups, right) can get the job done.

On Radar, have to smile again.  Myself, I find Radar most useful in river
and near coast sailing.  And have to say:  When I can pick up a quality
brand (I like Furuno) low hour used unit, which typical has been pulled to
upgrade to a Must Have, for around $500, it again seems like not too hard of
a decision to carry one.

-al-