Ok, what is your thoughts about get home engines
What are peoples thoughts on get home power?? I just did two weeks of boat shows and it was interesting hearing everything from Electric wings, to PTO off the genset, to twins, etc. On the KK44 and it's canoe hull it gets a bit narrow back there, so I'm weighing options as to what would work.
John Ford
KK44 Feisty Lady
Annapolis, MD
I lean toward a twin setup, for lots of reasons. But, if you can't fit them in
or have other reasons against twins then some kind of arrangement needs to
work for you. Would it be possible to install a large than needed genset, say
a Westerbroke 15kw with a Perkins engine or maybe a suitable sized generator
end on an over powered engine, about the size of a standard get home engine.
Then use a seperate shaft and variable pitch prop (Sabb, Helseth, etc.) driven
by an appropiately sized 240 volt 1750 rpm motor. I dislike hydraulics, mostly
because of the noise, but they seem to always leak. The idea of a second "just
in case" engine does not appeal to me.> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:33:05 -0400>
From: johnpford@mac.com> To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com>
Subject: [PUP] Ok, what is your thoughts about get home engines> > What are
peoples thoughts on get home power?? I just did two weeks of boat shows and it
was interesting hearing everything from Electric wings, to PTO off the genset,
to twins, etc. On the KK44 and it's canoe hull it gets a bit narrow back
there, so I'm weighing options as to what would work.> > John Ford> KK44
Feisty Lady> Annapolis, MD> _______________________________________________>
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power> > To
unsubscribe send email to> passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com
with the word> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the
message.> > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.>
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-- On Mon, 10/27/08, bob england bob_england@hotmail.com wrote:
I lean toward a twin setup, for lots of reasons. But, if you
Previously I would have gone for a single, less total running hours, etc. However, I've been keeping in tabs on Dick Vermeulen's P47 project. The test hull measured (flat water, full load) better fuel economy with twins than a single at the same speed. Twin volvo D-3s (160hp) 1500rpm 8.9 knots, 1.6 total gal/hr. vs one engine, 2100 rpm, 8.7 knots, 2.8 total gal/hr.
It seems like a very strange twin that can better a single in both speed and
gal/hr. The single needs a lot of work.
There can be lots of things wrong with the design point in the single setup
but properly done it will always be better on economy at the same cruise
speed.
John Harris
prior owners of 4 twins and a single (with wing)
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What are peoples thoughts on get home power??
I was once aboard a Krogen that had a small engine mounted above the
driveshaft. The engine was normally used as DC generator, which kept
it in good shape and ready to run. It had a sprocket that could be
connected by a roller chain to another sprocket the main
driveshaft. The boat's owner said that could be done in about 20
minutes (I assume not in a rolling sea!).
Not a bad idea and it protects you from all but major damage to the
drivetrain. It would be cheaper than the Wesmar hydraulic drive (
http://www.wesmar.com/APU.htm ) I am sure, although considerably less
convenient to engage. I don't remember how managed to get the boat in reverse!
Best,
Steve
Unless they used two different boats, the comparison is not valid - period!
With one engine running, the other engine's prop is dragging through the
water. The owner of a Nordhavn 68 with twin engines estimates that he uses
10% more fuel than a single engine vessel. To save fuel, he realizes that he
could install two controllable pitch props (and their special shafts) at
significant cost and remove this as an issue by feathering one prop. This
also gives him control over the optimal pitch for his props in varying
conditions plus instant reverse. Either or both these strategies will save
fuel.
Ron Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
-- On Mon, 10/27/08, bob england bob_england@hotmail.com wrote:
I lean toward a twin setup, for lots of reasons. But, if you
Previously I would have gone for a single, less total running hours, etc.
However, I've been keeping in tabs on Dick Vermeulen's P47 project. The
test hull measured (flat water, full load) better fuel economy with twins
than a single at the same speed. Twin volvo D-3s (160hp) 1500rpm 8.9 knots,
1.6 total gal/hr. vs one engine, 2100 rpm, 8.7 knots, 2.8 total gal/hr
I'm guessing my boat is the one Ron is referring to...
As he mentions, I am considering swapping to the feathering (Hundestat)
props, although I probably won't do it for cost, and space reasons. I'm
still interested in being able to run in single engine configuration (on my
twin engine boat), during super-long passages, but the most likely scenario
is that I'll go with some sort of shaft locking system.
Here's a link to a PDF document I did for the Nordhavn group talking about
the special issues of major passages with twin engines:
http://www.nordhavn68.com/uploads/952/shipdigitallibrary/twin%20engine%20eff
iciency%20v1.3.pdf
It's a little specific to my boat, and Nordhavns, but would probably be of
value to anyone contemplating a major passage with a twin engine boat.
Just to tell "the rest of the story" - we abandoned our plans to go to
Hawaii, and instead are crossing the Pacific via a quite unusual route.
We'll be leaving next May with three other boats (two Nordhavn 62s, and a
Northern Marine 75) to Alaska, across the Aleutian Islands, into Siberia,
and down into Japan. All of the boats have the range for a run to Polynesia
or Hawaii, but the idea of doing the trip this way seemed fun. Our longest
passage will be only 500 miles.
-Ken Williams
www.kensblog.com
Nordhavn 68, Sans Souci
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Ron Rogers
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 9:52 PM
To: mark424x@yahoo.com; 'Passagemaking Under Power List'
Subject: Re: [PUP] Ok, what is your thoughts about get home engines
Unless they used two different boats, the comparison is not valid - period!
With one engine running, the other engine's prop is dragging through the
water. The owner of a Nordhavn 68 with twin engines estimates that he uses
10% more fuel than a single engine vessel. To save fuel, he realizes that he
could install two controllable pitch props (and their special shafts) at
significant cost and remove this as an issue by feathering one prop. This
also gives him control over the optimal pitch for his props in varying
conditions plus instant reverse. Either or both these strategies will save
fuel.
Ron Rogers
All I know is that on my Nordhavn46, I used my wing engine (Yanmar) 3 times in?2 years. Twice?because of starter problems on the main engine( it allowed me to get to a safe convenient harbou to switch to a spare starter), and ounce because of overheating alarm going on. In that case I shut off the main engine immediatly, started the wing to keep headway on autopilot, leasurly checked the temperatures and decided it was a false alarm. I ?was very happy to have a wing engine... and I do like the concept of only one main engine...
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: John P. Ford johnpford@mac.com
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:33 pm
Subject: [PUP] Ok, what is your thoughts about get home engines
What are peoples thoughts on get home power?? I just did two weeks of boat
shows and it was interesting hearing everything from Electric wings, to PTO off
the genset, to twins, etc. On the KK44 and it's canoe hull it gets a bit narrow
back there, so I'm weighing options as to what would work.
John Ford
KK44 Feisty Lady
Annapolis, MD
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I have a twin now, but selected a single engine for the main propulsion
because of greater fuel efficiency, avoiding twice the maintenance, and a
better protected prop tucked into the keel. To maximize efficiency I also
specified a variable pitch prop.
I struggled with this "get home" issue for some time. I was surprised by
the high numbers that said that none was needed given the reliability of
diesels. I just couldn't see myself running around the middle of the
Atlantic without a back-up, however. My builder cautioned me that the worse
thing you can do with a diesel engine is just let it sit there and, with the
reliability of diesels, the wing was likely to sit and sit and sit, which
ain't the best thing for it.
Eventually, with Arild Jensen's design help I decided to have a the "wing"
pull double duty. I will have a 37 hp Kubota and a separate shaft with a
folding prop as the wing power source. To keep the engine nicely exercised
and maintained it will double as a DC generator by powering a pair of Series
98 Balmar alternators.
o;?
Alan Wagner
Tampa, Florida
"Morning Delight" 1978, 44' Gulfstar MC
Building "Passage of Time" or maybe "Phoenix," who knows!
Kasten designed 53' aluminum passagemaker
http://kastenmarine.com/valdemar52.htm