trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

TRAWLERS & TRAWLERING LIST

View all threads

TWL: Right of Way

R
rmcleran@ix.netcom.com
Sun, Aug 6, 2000 10:42 PM

Last week, in one post in a series of posts regarding right of way in
narrow channels and vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver, I
asked where the rule that power boats give way to sail boats was
contained, thinking that it might also be a misconception along the
lines of the "downbound vessel" misconception.

Between oil changes on Sanderling's three diesel engines this weekend I
have found the answer, if anyone cares anymore! :-{)

Inland Rule (as well as ColRegs) rule 18 provides:

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing; and
(iv) a sailing vessel.

We've already beaten the phrase "a vessel restricted . . . " to death,
so I won't go into that one again. It's defined in the ColRegs and
Inland Rules.

A "sailing vessel" is defined by the Rules and Regs to be:
RULE 3
General Definitions
For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise
requires:
(a) The word "Vessel" includes every description of water craft,
including nondisplacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of
being used as a means of transportation on water.
(b) The term "Power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by
machinery.
(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided
that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

When dealing with "sailing vessel," it is not always easy to determine
if "propelling machinery is not being used."  Guess you take your
chances here if you expect a sailboat with sails up and under power to
yield the right of way in a crossing situation when you find that boat
crossing from your port side.

--
Bob McLeran                              rmcleran@ix.netcom.com
M/V "Sanderling"                        Docked at Point Patience Marina
Hailing port: Wianno MA                      Solomons, MD
Hampton 35 Trawler

Last week, in one post in a series of posts regarding right of way in narrow channels and vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver, I asked where the rule that power boats give way to sail boats was contained, thinking that it might also be a misconception along the lines of the "downbound vessel" misconception. Between oil changes on Sanderling's three diesel engines this weekend I have found the answer, if anyone cares anymore! :-{) Inland Rule (as well as ColRegs) rule 18 provides: Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require: (a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of: (i) a vessel not under command; (ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver; (iii) a vessel engaged in fishing; and (iv) a sailing vessel. We've already beaten the phrase "a vessel restricted . . . " to death, so I won't go into that one again. It's defined in the ColRegs and Inland Rules. A "sailing vessel" is defined by the Rules and Regs to be: RULE 3 General Definitions For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise requires: (a) The word "Vessel" includes every description of water craft, including nondisplacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. (b) The term "Power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery. (c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used. When dealing with "sailing vessel," it is not always easy to determine if "propelling machinery is not being used." Guess you take your chances here if you expect a sailboat with sails up and under power to yield the right of way in a crossing situation when you find that boat crossing from your port side. -- Bob McLeran rmcleran@ix.netcom.com M/V "Sanderling" Docked at Point Patience Marina Hailing port: Wianno MA Solomons, MD Hampton 35 Trawler
H
hal@halwyman.com
Mon, Aug 7, 2000 4:05 PM

So are oars and paddles considered "machinery"?  Where do human-powered
vessels fit?  This is more than academic, as some time ago I was maneuvering
a powerboat within a marina in a fairly narrow fairway, when a kayak
attempted to cross my bow port to starboard.  By the time I finally realized
his intentions I was required to execute a panic stop.  I came out of the
pilothouse to politely inform him of the danger he placed himself in, when
he yelled and cursed at me and my guests, insisting that kayaks have ROW
over powerboats.

Hal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob McLeran" rmcleran@ix.netcom.com
To: "Trawler World List" trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 3:42 PM
Subject: TWL: Right of Way

Last week, in one post in a series of posts regarding right of way in
narrow channels and vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver, I
asked where the rule that power boats give way to sail boats was
contained, thinking that it might also be a misconception along the
lines of the "downbound vessel" misconception.

Between oil changes on Sanderling's three diesel engines this weekend I
have found the answer, if anyone cares anymore! :-{)

Inland Rule (as well as ColRegs) rule 18 provides:

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing; and
(iv) a sailing vessel.

We've already beaten the phrase "a vessel restricted . . . " to death,
so I won't go into that one again. It's defined in the ColRegs and
Inland Rules.

A "sailing vessel" is defined by the Rules and Regs to be:
RULE 3
General Definitions
For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise
requires:
(a) The word "Vessel" includes every description of water craft,
including nondisplacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of
being used as a means of transportation on water.
(b) The term "Power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by
machinery.
(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided
that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

When dealing with "sailing vessel," it is not always easy to determine
if "propelling machinery is not being used."  Guess you take your
chances here if you expect a sailboat with sails up and under power to
yield the right of way in a crossing situation when you find that boat
crossing from your port side.

Bob McLeran                              rmcleran@ix.netcom.com
M/V "Sanderling"                        Docked at Point Patience Marina
Hailing port: Wianno MA                      Solomons, MD
Hampton 35 Trawler

So are oars and paddles considered "machinery"? Where do human-powered vessels fit? This is more than academic, as some time ago I was maneuvering a powerboat within a marina in a fairly narrow fairway, when a kayak attempted to cross my bow port to starboard. By the time I finally realized his intentions I was required to execute a panic stop. I came out of the pilothouse to politely inform him of the danger he placed himself in, when he yelled and cursed at me and my guests, insisting that kayaks have ROW over powerboats. Hal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob McLeran" <rmcleran@ix.netcom.com> To: "Trawler World List" <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 3:42 PM Subject: TWL: Right of Way > Last week, in one post in a series of posts regarding right of way in > narrow channels and vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver, I > asked where the rule that power boats give way to sail boats was > contained, thinking that it might also be a misconception along the > lines of the "downbound vessel" misconception. > > Between oil changes on Sanderling's three diesel engines this weekend I > have found the answer, if anyone cares anymore! :-{) > > Inland Rule (as well as ColRegs) rule 18 provides: > > Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require: > (a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of: > (i) a vessel not under command; > (ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver; > (iii) a vessel engaged in fishing; and > (iv) a sailing vessel. > > We've already beaten the phrase "a vessel restricted . . . " to death, > so I won't go into that one again. It's defined in the ColRegs and > Inland Rules. > > A "sailing vessel" is defined by the Rules and Regs to be: > RULE 3 > General Definitions > For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise > requires: > (a) The word "Vessel" includes every description of water craft, > including nondisplacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of > being used as a means of transportation on water. > (b) The term "Power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by > machinery. > (c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided > that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used. > > When dealing with "sailing vessel," it is not always easy to determine > if "propelling machinery is not being used." Guess you take your > chances here if you expect a sailboat with sails up and under power to > yield the right of way in a crossing situation when you find that boat > crossing from your port side. > -- > Bob McLeran rmcleran@ix.netcom.com > M/V "Sanderling" Docked at Point Patience Marina > Hailing port: Wianno MA Solomons, MD > Hampton 35 Trawler > > > >
S
scaramouche@tvo.org
Mon, Aug 7, 2000 4:51 PM

This is more than academic, as some time ago I was maneuvering
a powerboat within a marina in a fairly narrow fairway, when a kayak
attempted to cross my bow port to starboard.

Must have been a cousin of the kayak that crossed my bow starboard to
port in a real narrow channel.
Seems to me two rules would apply here:

  1. The less maneuverable vessel is the standon vessel;  and let me
    tell you, from an ex-white water kayak racer,  kayaks are probably
    the most maneuverable conveyances on the water!
  2. Second rule is  (tongue in cheek) "Might over right".

In any case your "panic-stop" looks good on you and follows the rule
of: ...must do everything possible to avoid a collision...

hal@halwyman.com writes: >This is more than academic, as some time ago I was maneuvering >a powerboat within a marina in a fairly narrow fairway, when a kayak >attempted to cross my bow port to starboard. Must have been a cousin of the kayak that crossed my bow starboard to port in a real narrow channel. Seems to me two rules would apply here: 1) The less maneuverable vessel is the standon vessel; and let me tell you, from an ex-white water kayak racer, kayaks are probably the most maneuverable conveyances on the water! 2) Second rule is (tongue in cheek) "Might over right". In any case your "panic-stop" looks good on you and follows the rule of: ...must do everything possible to avoid a collision...
A
alexh@gte.net
Mon, Aug 7, 2000 8:49 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: Hal Wyman hal@halwyman.com

So are oars and paddles considered "machinery"?  Where do human-powered
vessels fit?
he yelled and cursed at me and my guests, insisting that kayaks have ROW
over powerboats.

Hi Hal,

That kayaker was not only an idiot, but a rude idiot as well.

When Michelle and I took the USPS course we casually mentioned that we were
sea kayakers. Later, when the subject of ROW came up he admitted that he was
unaware of any rule concerning human powered craft. He then asked us if we
knew where human powered craft fit into the ROW hierarchy. The only answer I
could give was that when we are paddling we're afraid of everyone.

Many paddlers seem to think that the because they are slower and less
powerful than other vessels they should be accorded "stand-on" status. The
more experienced paddlers don't share that belief so when you see someone
pull a stunt like you describe it's probably a waste of time to try to
explain their mistake to them.

As has been mentioned, a properly handled kayak is among the most
maneuverable craft on the water. They also have the capability to run far
closer to shore than any power or sail vessel. In fact, most kayakers that I
know find it more esthetically pleasing to stay close to shore (more
interesting stuff to look at).

Paddlingly yours,

Alex

P.S. Does Linda know that there is a new record price for toilet paper?

----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Wyman <hal@halwyman.com> > So are oars and paddles considered "machinery"? Where do human-powered > vessels fit? > he yelled and cursed at me and my guests, insisting that kayaks have ROW > over powerboats. > Hi Hal, That kayaker was not only an idiot, but a rude idiot as well. When Michelle and I took the USPS course we casually mentioned that we were sea kayakers. Later, when the subject of ROW came up he admitted that he was unaware of any rule concerning human powered craft. He then asked us if we knew where human powered craft fit into the ROW hierarchy. The only answer I could give was that when we are paddling we're afraid of everyone. Many paddlers seem to think that the because they are slower and less powerful than other vessels they should be accorded "stand-on" status. The more experienced paddlers don't share that belief so when you see someone pull a stunt like you describe it's probably a waste of time to try to explain their mistake to them. As has been mentioned, a properly handled kayak is among the most maneuverable craft on the water. They also have the capability to run far closer to shore than any power or sail vessel. In fact, most kayakers that I know find it more esthetically pleasing to stay close to shore (more interesting stuff to look at). Paddlingly yours, Alex P.S. Does Linda know that there is a new record price for toilet paper?