Rex,

Where on the America's Great Loop Cruise is there a law that says
that you can't take a shower or wash dishes on your boat.  I know of
none, and we use soap to get clean!!!

There is a difference between GRAY Water and BLACK Water (sewage).
Also, there are several biodegradable soaps on the market today, so
suds don't tell the story.

The only body of water that I know of that does not permit any Gray
water is Lake George in Vermont, but that is not on the Great Loop.

John and Judy Gill
Two Js V, a 36 ft. Carver Mariner
Slip E-26, Sassafras Harbor Marina, Georgetown, MD
AGLCA Loopers
Pennsway Power Squadron - USPS Life Members

Email:  twojscom@quadnet.net
Website:  http://homepage.mac.com/twojscom/GreatLoop/

---=======================

John and Judy Gill

On May 31, 2007, at 4:41 PM, Rex Miller wrote:

They used dish washing liquid in Alaska to clean up the waterfowl and other
precious wildlife after the Exxon Valdeze oil spill..
R.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Miller" rexwmiller@gmail.com

They NO longer use liquid soap at fuel stops for any gas/diesel that gets
spilled onto the water.
TT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Yost" ralph@alphacompservices.com
To: "Rex Miller" rexwmiller@gmail.com; great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: GL: Am I pumping raw water?

From: "Tommy Terrific" circumnavigate06@bellsouth.net

That's because they figured out that the soap is mixing with the fuel and
taking it to the bottom, polluting the water more, which is what they were
trying to avoid. Better to let the fuel lay on top of the water where it can
evaborate into the air, thereby not hurting the water.  Has nothing to do
with the soap hurting the enviornment.

Brent Hodges

While I was in Florida attending the surveying course we went to several
boat building facilities that installed commercial grade food disposal units
in the galley sink discharges so that the waste could be ground fine enough
to be able for an owner to discharge it without visible evidence.  However,
unless large amounts of dish liquid are included in the discharge  vegetable
oils, bacon grease, beef fat and other sundry greases and oils still float
and contaminate the environment.

I do not contest the fact that municipalities, like Milwaukee and Chicago,
discharge millions of gallons of raw sewerage when ever the storm sewers
over flow the treatment plants.  Nobody ever said the world was or would be
fair.

Avoiding Ludington
I happen to agree that galley waste should not be discharged and Ludington
provides very good alternative dish washing facilities the are easier to use
than the average galley sink on most vessels I survey.
I suspect we will see the day when grey water has to be handled the same way
black water is today.

As to other toiletry requirements.  As is the case with most marinas
Ludington has well maintained and clean bathing facilities.  Therefore
washing ones face, cleaning ones teeth and other cleansing requirements are
very easily conducted. These discharges have not been stopped so using
this premise to avoid Ludington is a very scued interpretation.

Exxon Valdez
I think dish liquid was by far the lesser evil of the two considering the
situation.  However its use does not support the conclusion that it is
totally benign.  It is not the dish liquid that is generally the
problem, it is what is dissolved in it.

On 6/1/07, Brent Hodges vbhodges@cableone.net wrote:

--
Rex W. Miller SA(r)
Telrex Marine Services

Rex--I'm not sure I  understand why you think that galley waste should not
be discharged.  It's true we discharge vegetable oils, bacon grease, beef
fat and other sundry greases and oils, but I don't believe they "contaminate
the environment".    One dead whale in a salt water environment, or several
dead fresh water fish (or animals) in a fresh water environment would
certainly deposit sundry greases and oils as they have since the world
began.  I'm all for protecting the environment, but not for preserving it
from man.

Dave Tuls
Perfect Timing
Grand Haven, MI
Waiting to continue the loop (did Florida to Grand Haven  '04)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Miller" rexwmiller@gmail.com
To: "Brent Hodges" vbhodges@cableone.net
Cc: great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: GL: Am I pumping raw water?

AMEN, AMEN & AMEN.

What you have described is clearly the difference between Liberals
and Conservatives.

Let's not legislate ourselves out of Boating for the sake of
protecting the environment. Brushing ones teeth, washing our faces
and taking a shower or washing the dishes while at anchor or in a
marina is not going to destroy our ecological system anytime soon.

John

---=======

On Jun 5, 2007, at 7:42 PM, Dave Tuls wrote:

John,
Unless you're running for office labeling people in an effort to divide us
serves no constructive purpose.  How about keeping your political rhetoric
off the list.

Carl Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "John & Judy Gill" twojscom@quadnet.net
To: "Dave Tuls" docktator@comcast.net
Cc: "Rex Miller" rexwmiller@gmail.com; great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: GL: Am I pumping raw water?

AMEN, AMEN & AMEN.

What you have described is clearly the difference between Liberals
and Conservatives.

Let's not legislate ourselves out of Boating for the sake of
protecting the environment. Brushing ones teeth, washing our faces
and taking a shower or washing the dishes while at anchor or in a
marina is not going to destroy our ecological system anytime soon.

John

---=======

On Jun 5, 2007, at 7:42 PM, Dave Tuls wrote:

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