Hello All,

I always read Marin's posts with great anticipation, much like Cap'n Mike's
and Bob Austin's.  They all come from a nicely sane point of view, reflect
experience and consistently offer good advice.

I strongly disagree with Marin on one aspect of his fuel polishing post.
While I am one of the least qualified on TWL to comment on a fuel polishing
system, Marin made the comment that ..." Same thing with boating.  I nor
anyone I know has ever had an engine so much as cough due to dirty fuel, so
at this point my interest in fuel polishing systems is about zero
(ironically, our boat has one on it but I never take the time to use it).
But if I ever have one or both engines quit in a fast current in a narrow
passage due to dirty fuel, I'll probably be using that polishing system
religiously, and investigating ways to make it better.".

IMHO, this mindset goes against one of the core commandments of boating in
general, that being:

Thou Shalt Be Prepared for any Emergency for the First Could Very Well Be
Your Last.

Taking advantage of an existing safety feature such as Marin's unused fuel
polishing system likely falls under that umbrella.  Apparently, we all agree
that the nature and timing of boating accidents is strongly biased towards
unpredictability.  Who is to say that an engine failure, fuel related or
otherwise, will occur in a situation that is frightening but survivable?
There is always the possibility of that failure happening when you're
crossing in front of a barge tow or other similarly dangerous and
potentially fatal situation.

As well, the past is no guarantee of future performance.  If my boat were
equipped with a fuel polishing system, I'd be predisposed to use it
regularly, despite the sterling performance of my fuel supplier.  At the
worst I'd never filter bad fuel but would become excruciatingly competent in
its operation in the event my cruising called for filling up at a suspect
source.  At the best, I'd be protected from my fuel supplier suffering a
(inevitable?) freak delivery of wet or otherwise contaminated fuel.

Again, I'll disclaim my experience with fuel polishing systems and reiterate
my admiration for Marin (the man, not the county).  However, my experience
with disasters is vast, as is my strong respect for Mr. Murphy and his
immutable laws.

Best Regards to All,

Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer

-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of C. Marin
Faure
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:34 PM
To: trawler-world-list@lists.samurai.com
Subject: TWL: Re: Gulf Coast F-1 Filter
<SNIP>

C. Marin,

I generally tend to agree with your thesis, dirty fuel-caused engine
failures are sort of rare, but not nonexistent.  As one previous writer
mentioned, one cause of different experiences is the vast difference in how
boats belonging to TWL members are used.  I had a 40' Bell (aka Albin,
Hershine, Chung Hwa, etc.) single screw trawler (120 Lehman) for five years
which served as our introduction to cruising and trawlers.  Great boat,
fabulous engine.

But as my wife and I were still both employed at the time, I described our
cruising experience to others as like owning a 747 and using it between San
Francisco and Oakland!  We just couldn't cruise far enough in the available
time to make any serious dent in the boat's 400 gallon fuel tanks.

Nor surprisingly then, when we approached the tricky entrance to Tomales Bay
north of San Francisco one time, the trip had stirred up enough yuck in the
tanks to choke off the primary fuel filter.  Luckily for us, throttling back
to minimum RPM's permitted the engine to keep turning and we crossed the bar
and entered the bay at something like 900 RPM!

A friend who was traveling with us cut open the fuel filter canister the
next morning, I didn't have proper Racor's at the time, and showed it to me;
totally clogged with blackish yuck that effectively shut it down, despite my
using Bio-bore at the time.  Had I been lucky enough to be cruising
full-time, I suspect the turnover of fuel in the tanks would not have
permitted such contamination.  And that's at least one reason why some
experience engine problems due to fuel, even when they use a fuel dock that
others never have problems with.

Bob Peterson

I've never heard anyone in our marina talk about engine failure due to dirty
fuel.
<end snip>

A couple of years ago we were refueling in Petersburg, AK. I bought a bottle
of Bio-Bor or some other brand of critter killer. As I was pouring it in our
tanks, a fish-boat captain, who was also taking on fuel, sauntered over and
asked if we'd ever used the stuff before. I said no. Then he asked if we
carried spare fuel filters. I told him yes, we did. He said, "Good, cause
you're going to need 'em when all those little critters die and clog up your
filters." I bought a couple more filters and we left. He was right. The next
day and two Racor filter changes later, we could finally carry on unimpeded.

Bob Peterson wrote:

A friend who was traveling with us cut open the fuel filter canister the
next morning, I didn't have proper Racor's at the time, and showed it to me;
totally clogged with blackish yuck that effectively shut it down, despite my
using Bio-bore at the time.

Mike, I agree that Bio-Bor and similar products, if they work as advertised,
have to leave the dead critters somewhere.  The issue is whether it's in
your fuel filters or your injectors.

Bob P.

Has anyone  got a good suggestion for a bilge pump  style that  will suck out
all the water instead leaving an inch or more water in the bilge when the
"float" switch shuts off.

The problem is especially bad in wide boats with relatively flat bottoms.
The standard Rule style pump with strainer starts to suck air  when the water
depth is an inch deep.
When you add the height of the bracket  or pad the pump base is screwed to,  you
end up with two or more inches of water the pump cannot remove.

Even just a few inches of water can amount to a considerable weight when  the
total  surface area is considered.

Regards

Arild

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/2003

The only thing that ever worked for us the hand pump we used to get rain
water out of the dinghy when it wasn't on the mother ship. That and a bucket
worked every time. Not exactly convenient though.

Mike O'Reilly
Sunnfjord 54 - Ladyhawke
Completion date 10/03

-----Original Message-----
Arild Asked:
Has anyone  got a good suggestion for a bilge pump  style that  will suck
out all the water instead leaving an inch or more water in the bilge when
the "float" switch shuts off.

Hi Arild,

I'm glad to be able to supply a suggestion for you to consider, instead of
the usual where I'm taking your thoughtful advice.  This is one problem
common to most vessel types and is just as much an issue on my 34' FBSF as
it is in most trawlers.  The main pump pad, glassed in place is 3/4" thick
plywood, which when mounted astride the V-bottom leaves another 3/4" space
between the board bottom and the hull; a pump attached to the pad would thus
sit 1-1/2" above hull bottom, leaving as you stated too much water down
there.

My solution, was to mount a homemade 5" by 10" bracket, of 1/2" thick
plywood to the existing pad with half its length positioned beyond the pad
end, precisely centered over the hull's V.  A 4" ID ring saw was used to cut
a hole in the bracket to accommodate a smallish bilge pump, you would scale
the hole and possibly the wood bracket up in size to accommodate larger
pumps.  The pump's diameter was exactly the same size as the bracket's hole,
so it fit tightly without any shimming or other attention.  After
installation of the bracket I simply twisted the pump assembly a bit while
pushing downward until the pump's bottom made contact with the hull's
interior surface.

There is still the minor issue of the pump's flat bottom making contact with
the hull's V shape.  But the intent was simply to get the pump as low as
possible and this el-cheapo design accomplishes that.  Predictions of dire
consequences from arm-chair commentators about the hole shrinking and
damaging the pump have proven unfounded.

Works for me,

Bob Peterson

Has anyone  got a good suggestion for a bilge pump  style that  will suck
out
all the water instead leaving an inch or more water in the bilge when the
"float" switch shuts off.
<end snip>

Bob Peterson wrote:

Hi Arild,
I'm glad to be able to supply a suggestion for you to consider, instead of >>
snip<<

My solution, was to mount a homemade 5" by 10" bracket, of 1/2" thick
plywood to the existing pad with half its length positioned beyond the pad
end, precisely centered over the hull's V.  A 4" ID ring saw was used to cut
a hole in the bracket >>> snip<<

After installation of the bracket I simply twisted the pump assembly a bit while
pushing downward until the pump's bottom made contact with the hull's
interior surface.

REPLY
Thanks Bob!
That sounds like a winner.  For locations  that are perpetually wet  it might be
an idea to substitute some "starboard"  instead of ply.
Your notion of a small pump is also  good.
While  it doesn't throw a lot water it  is likely better for handling  a small
but steady trickle from leaky hatches and the shaft log.
The backup or emergency  pump should be the one that has the high volume. It
would only kick in if and when the small pump was overwhelmed by flooding or
malfunction.

Since this hull is aluminum,  screwing anything directly into the bottom is not
an option.  < grin>

Cheers

Arild

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/2003