I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which worked as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary tube. Antonio I8IOV >Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals > >Hi > >Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it in a >socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with fat pins >sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. > >Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass package crystal >and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal shield >you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. > >Bob > > >> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >> Here are some pictures: >> >> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >> >> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >> >> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >> mind? >> >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Dan W.

You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from light, thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal and its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a foam wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. Don iovane--- via time-nuts > I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which > worked > as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my > case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still > is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a > beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of > tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in > which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary > tube. > > Antonio I8IOV > >>Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >>Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >> >>Hi >> >>Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it > in a >>socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with > fat pins >>sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >> >>Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass > package crystal >>and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal > shield >>you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >> >>Bob >> >> >>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>> Here are some pictures: >>> >>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>> >>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>> >>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>> mind? >>> >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Dan W. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. Lucky is he who has been able to understand the causes of things. Virgil ------------------------------- "Noli sinere nothos te opprimere" Dr. Don Latham, AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC, 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mailing address: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 CEL 406-241-5093 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

Hi I think you will find that the Russian versions were used without ovens for a long time. In the US, the only use for the glass packages past the mid 1960’s was in ovens. Bob > On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:43 PM, iovane--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > > I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which worked > as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my > case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still > is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a > beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of > tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in > which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary > tube. > > Antonio I8IOV > >> Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >> >> Hi >> >> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it > in a >> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with > fat pins >> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >> >> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass > package crystal >> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal > shield >> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>> Here are some pictures: >>> >>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>> >>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>> >>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>> mind? >>> >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Dan W. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

The OP's picture looks very much like the crystals that HP's "Frequency and Time" division in Santa Clara (02 was their division number) used to manufacture back in the 1970s. My picture shows a 1 MHz crystal that HP used in the predecessor to the HP-105A (perhaps the 101A). Jeremy http://s323.photobucket.com/user/Jeremy5848/media/Miscellaneous/Crystal_1140587_zps0jxjpoal.jpg.html On 2/2/2016 12:24 PM, Don Latham wrote: > You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from light, > thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal and > its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a foam > wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. > Don > > iovane--- via time-nuts >> I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which >> worked >> as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my >> case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still >> is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a >> beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of >> tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in >> which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary >> tube. >> >> Antonio I8IOV >> >>> Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >>> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it >> in a >>> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with >> fat pins >>> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >>> >>> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass >> package crystal >>> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal >> shield >>> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>>> Here are some pictures: >>>> >>>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>>> >>>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>>> >>>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>>> mind? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks much, >>>> >>>> Dan W. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >

Jeremy, do you remember the base that was used on that HP standard crystal-in-glass? I remember similar looking ones (not HP... maybe General Radio? ... probably from the 1960's) fitting into something like the big old bayonet two-pin lamp sockets or even having screw-in candelabra bases. Tim. On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@gmail.com> wrote: > The OP's picture looks very much like the crystals that HP's "Frequency > and Time" division in Santa Clara (02 was their division number) used to > manufacture back in the 1970s. My picture shows a 1 MHz crystal that HP > used in the predecessor to the HP-105A (perhaps the 101A). > > Jeremy > > > http://s323.photobucket.com/user/Jeremy5848/media/Miscellaneous/Crystal_1140587_zps0jxjpoal.jpg.html > > > > > On 2/2/2016 12:24 PM, Don Latham wrote: > >> You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from >> light, >> thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal >> and >> its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a >> foam >> wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. >> Don >> >> iovane--- via time-nuts >> >>> I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which >>> worked >>> as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and >>> in my >>> case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed >>> (still >>> is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass >>> enclosure, a >>> beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots >>> of >>> tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury >>> thermometer in >>> which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the >>> capillary >>> tube. >>> >>> Antonio I8IOV >>> >>> Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>>> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>>> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"< >>>> time-nuts@febo.com> >>>> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, >>>> putting it >>>> >>> in a >>> >>>> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even >>>> with >>>> >>> fat pins >>> >>>> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >>>> >>>> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass >>>> >>> package crystal >>> >>>> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a >>>> metal >>>> >>> shield >>> >>>> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a >>>>> project. >>>>> Here are some pictures: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for >>>>> these? I >>>>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G >>>>> mount, >>>>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>>>> >>>>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>>>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep >>>>> in >>>>> mind? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks much, >>>>> >>>>> Dan W. >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi There is actually a range of crystals shown in the pictures. The gold plated 5 MHz crystal is probably an overtone part. It could be fairly precise. The 25 MHz part is plated with something like silver. It probably is a *much* lower precision part. There likely are long stories that explain just why this or that package got used in this or that application. Bob > On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@gmail.com> wrote: > > The OP's picture looks very much like the crystals that HP's "Frequency and Time" division in Santa Clara (02 was their division number) used to manufacture back in the 1970s. My picture shows a 1 MHz crystal that HP used in the predecessor to the HP-105A (perhaps the 101A). > > Jeremy > > http://s323.photobucket.com/user/Jeremy5848/media/Miscellaneous/Crystal_1140587_zps0jxjpoal.jpg.html > > > > On 2/2/2016 12:24 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from light, >> thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal and >> its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a foam >> wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. >> Don >> >> iovane--- via time-nuts >>> I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which >>> worked >>> as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my >>> case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still >>> is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a >>> beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of >>> tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in >>> which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary >>> tube. >>> >>> Antonio I8IOV >>> >>>> Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>>> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>>> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >>>> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it >>> in a >>>> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with >>> fat pins >>>> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >>>> >>>> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass >>> package crystal >>>> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal >>> shield >>>> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>>>> Here are some pictures: >>>>> >>>>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>>>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>>>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>>>> >>>>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>>>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>>>> mind? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks much, >>>>> >>>>> Dan W. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

I dug around in my junk box, and found this: https://plus.google.com/+PhilipGladstone/posts/JBNLMSq2rsE?pid=6247050011623528018&oid=115465617973526125523 This is (according to the markings) a 71.137 kHz crystal made in 1948. I suspect that they just measured the crystal after manufacture rather than actually trying to make a 71137Hz crystal.... After this discussion, I'm feeling the need to fire it up and see whether it still runs, and what the aging has done to the frequency.... Philip On 03/02/2016 07:11, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > There is actually a range of crystals shown in the pictures. The gold plated 5 MHz > crystal is probably an overtone part. It could be fairly precise. The 25 MHz part is > plated with something like silver. It probably is a *much* lower precision part. There > likely are long stories that explain just why this or that package got used in this > or that application. > > Bob > >> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The OP's picture looks very much like the crystals that HP's "Frequency and Time" division in Santa Clara (02 was their division number) used to manufacture back in the 1970s. My picture shows a 1 MHz crystal that HP used in the predecessor to the HP-105A (perhaps the 101A). >> >> Jeremy >> >> http://s323.photobucket.com/user/Jeremy5848/media/Miscellaneous/Crystal_1140587_zps0jxjpoal.jpg.html >> >> >> >> On 2/2/2016 12:24 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>> You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from light, >>> thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the crystal and >>> its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest a foam >>> wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. >>> Don >>> >>> iovane--- via time-nuts >>>> I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, which >>>> worked >>>> as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, and in my >>>> case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed (still >>>> is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass enclosure, a >>>> beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with lots of >>>> tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury thermometer in >>>> which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the capillary >>>> tube. >>>> >>>> Antonio I8IOV >>>> >>>>> Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>>>> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>>>> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >>>>> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >>>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, putting it >>>> in a >>>>> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. Even with >>>> fat pins >>>>> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >>>>> >>>>> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a glass >>>> package crystal >>>>> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has a metal >>>> shield >>>>> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a project. >>>>>> Here are some pictures: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for these? I >>>>>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G mount, >>>>>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there any >>>>>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should keep in >>>>>> mind? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks much, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan W. >>>>

Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Camp Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Februar 2016 13:12 >There likely are long stories that explain just why this or that package got used in this or that application. The historical reasons for this type of package is more related to the production technology than to a particular application. In the olde days, before cold-welding technology came up, glass-encapsulation was the packaging of choice to achieve high stability crystals. Because of the high temperatures associated with the melting during the sealing, all humidity, moisture and "dirt" was burned away. In addition the vacuum inside contributes for high stability and high Q The sealing of glass tubes was a well-established technology for vacuum tubes, and could be adapted straight-forward by the crystal manufacturers. Therefore most of these tube-style crystal packages had an "Octal" or "Noval" type socket as used for vacuum tubes. To complete the story: Later the all-glass enclosures HC-27 and HC-26 came up, which have the same outer dimensions and pin spacing as the old HC-6/U and HC-18/U metal enclosures. The sealing technology was as follows: There was a ring of Kovar embedded in the upper side of the header. The glass-cover was positioned on top of this Kovar ring. The output power ( around 1 kW) of a RF (e.g. 13.56 MHz) transmitter was inductively coupled through a coil which was arranged around the crystal header, so the Kovar ring was forming the secondary winding of this RF transformer. Through RF induction the Kovar ring was melting and with it the edge of the glass cover and of the header. The whole thing happened under a vacuum bell, and the sealing process was accompanied by water cooling of the pins and parts of the header to avoid overheating of the crystal during the melting process (its temperature must be maintained well below the Curie temperature (573°C). The degree of overheating could be seen afterwards by you measuring the resonance spectrum: At about 1.5 times the nominal frequency you could see resonances from the BT-cut mode, caused by partial twinning of the crystal structure ... With this I will close the crystal history book for today. Best regards Bernd DK1AG

I think it was unlikely that that it was made "just to see where it would come out" That is a flexural bar possibly an NT cut. 100KHz standards were commonly made in this format. The British GPO had a factory at Mill Hill in N. London making these in tube-like (valve in UK) enclosures, IO GT and B7G. I have a number of unit saved from the dumpster (skip in the UK).when the unit closed in the early 60s. Remember there was a surge in telephones in this era and many of these frequencies were for FDM carriers on trunk sytems. This is pre-synthersiser. Also many special quality tubes were made for VHF in B7G with two or three inch wires instead of pins to reduce the socket parasitics. so these were probably still around in Russian factories to produce components for the "Foxbat" etc. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Gladstone" <pjsg-timenuts@nospam.gladstonefamily.net> To: <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >I dug around in my junk box, and found this: > > https://plus.google.com/+PhilipGladstone/posts/JBNLMSq2rsE?pid=6247050011623528018&oid=115465617973526125523 > > This is (according to the markings) a 71.137 kHz crystal made in 1948. I > suspect that they just measured the crystal after manufacture rather than > actually trying to make a 71137Hz crystal.... > > After this discussion, I'm feeling the need to fire it up and see whether > it still runs, and what the aging has done to the frequency.... > > Philip > > On 03/02/2016 07:11, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> There is actually a range of crystals shown in the pictures. The gold >> plated 5 MHz >> crystal is probably an overtone part. It could be fairly precise. The 25 >> MHz part is >> plated with something like silver. It probably is a *much* lower >> precision part. There >> likely are long stories that explain just why this or that package got >> used in this >> or that application. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> The OP's picture looks very much like the crystals that HP's "Frequency >>> and Time" division in Santa Clara (02 was their division number) used to >>> manufacture back in the 1970s. My picture shows a 1 MHz crystal that HP >>> used in the predecessor to the HP-105A (perhaps the 101A). >>> >>> Jeremy >>> >>> http://s323.photobucket.com/user/Jeremy5848/media/Miscellaneous/Crystal_1140587_zps0jxjpoal.jpg.html >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2/2/2016 12:24 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>> You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected from >>>> light, >>>> thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the >>>> crystal and >>>> its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd suggest >>>> a foam >>>> wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. >>>> Don >>>> >>>> iovane--- via time-nuts >>>>> I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, >>>>> which >>>>> worked >>>>> as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, >>>>> and in my >>>>> case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was housed >>>>> (still >>>>> is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass >>>>> enclosure, a >>>>> beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with >>>>> lots of >>>>> tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury >>>>> thermometer in >>>>> which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the >>>>> capillary >>>>> tube. >>>>> >>>>> Antonio I8IOV >>>>> >>>>>> Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>>>>> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>>>>> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency >>>>>> measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >>>>>> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, >>>>>> putting it >>>>> in a >>>>>> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. >>>>>> Even with >>>>> fat pins >>>>>> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for trouble. >>>>>> >>>>>> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a >>>>>> glass >>>>> package crystal >>>>>> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - one has >>>>>> a metal >>>>> shield >>>>>> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a >>>>>>> project. >>>>>>> Here are some pictures: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for >>>>>>> these? I >>>>>>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using a B7G >>>>>>> mount, >>>>>>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are there >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should >>>>>>> keep in >>>>>>> mind? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks much, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan W. >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Alan -- I should have checked Google. It turns out that 71.137 kHz was a Decca navigation frequency. Given that the network was being installed in the '40s, it seems to match up with the date on the crystal. Philip http://traktoria.org/files/radio/navigation/Radio_Navigation_Systems_for_Aviation_and_Maritime_use__AGARD-AG-63.pdf has all the details. On 03/02/2016 12:30, Alan Melia wrote: > I think it was unlikely that that it was made "just to see where it would > come out" That is a flexural bar possibly an NT cut. 100KHz standards > were > commonly made in this format. > The British GPO had a factory at Mill Hill in N. London making these in > tube-like (valve in UK) enclosures, IO GT and B7G. I have a number of > unit > saved from the dumpster (skip in the UK).when the unit closed in the > early > 60s. Remember there was a surge in telephones in this era and many of > these > frequencies were for FDM carriers on trunk sytems. This is > pre-synthersiser. > > Also many special quality tubes were made for VHF in B7G with two or > three inch wires instead of pins to reduce the socket parasitics. so > these were probably still around in Russian factories to produce > components for the "Foxbat" etc. > > Alan > G3NYK > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Gladstone" > <pjsg-timenuts@nospam.gladstonefamily.net> > To: <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 1:21 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals > > >> I dug around in my junk box, and found this: >> >> https://plus.google.com/+PhilipGladstone/posts/JBNLMSq2rsE?pid=6247050011623528018&oid=115465617973526125523 >> >> >> This is (according to the markings) a 71.137 kHz crystal made in 1948. I >> suspect that they just measured the crystal after manufacture rather >> than >> actually trying to make a 71137Hz crystal.... >> >> After this discussion, I'm feeling the need to fire it up and see >> whether >> it still runs, and what the aging has done to the frequency.... >> >> Philip >> >> On 03/02/2016 07:11, Bob Camp wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> There is actually a range of crystals shown in the pictures. The gold >>> plated 5 MHz >>> crystal is probably an overtone part. It could be fairly precise. >>> The 25 >>> MHz part is >>> plated with something like silver. It probably is a *much* lower >>> precision part. There >>> likely are long stories that explain just why this or that package got >>> used in this >>> or that application. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The OP's picture looks very much like the crystals that HP's >>>> "Frequency >>>> and Time" division in Santa Clara (02 was their division number) >>>> used to >>>> manufacture back in the 1970s. My picture shows a 1 MHz crystal >>>> that HP >>>> used in the predecessor to the HP-105A (perhaps the 101A). >>>> >>>> Jeremy >>>> >>>> http://s323.photobucket.com/user/Jeremy5848/media/Miscellaneous/Crystal_1140587_zps0jxjpoal.jpg.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/2/2016 12:24 PM, Don Latham wrote: >>>>> You have it right, iovane. At the least, they should be protected >>>>> from >>>>> light, >>>>> thermal radiation, and emf. Won'drous things will happen if the >>>>> crystal and >>>>> its structure are subjected to radiation through the glass. I'd >>>>> suggest >>>>> a foam >>>>> wrap in a tin can as a minimum. Put the oscillator cat in there too. >>>>> Don >>>>> >>>>> iovane--- via time-nuts >>>>>> I think that these crystals were designed to be placed in an oven, >>>>>> which >>>>>> worked >>>>>> as a shield too. I have a similar crystal made by Racal in the 60's, >>>>>> and in my >>>>>> case it is fitted with the classic octal tube-type plug. It was >>>>>> housed >>>>>> (still >>>>>> is) in a heavy massive shimmering chrome-plated cylindrical brass >>>>>> enclosure, a >>>>>> beauty to see, It was the timebase of a tube-type synthesizer with >>>>>> lots of >>>>>> tubes. Themperature control was achieved by means of a mercury >>>>>> thermometer in >>>>>> which mercury actuated a contact when reaching a wire crossing the >>>>>> capillary >>>>>> tube. >>>>>> >>>>>> Antonio I8IOV >>>>>> >>>>>>> Da: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >>>>>>> Data: 02/02/2016 13.15 >>>>>>> A: "Discussion of precise time and frequency >>>>>>> measurement"<time-nuts@febo.com> >>>>>>> Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since the 25 MHz crystal has already been soldered into a circuit, >>>>>>> putting it >>>>>> in a >>>>>>> socket is probably not a real good idea. It’s also a leaded part. >>>>>>> Even with >>>>>> fat pins >>>>>>> sockets can be an issue. With wire leads, you are asking for >>>>>>> trouble. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Functionally, there is little there is little difference between a >>>>>>> glass >>>>>> package crystal >>>>>>> and a metal package. About the only real one is the obvious - >>>>>>> one has >>>>>>> a metal >>>>>> shield >>>>>>> you can (but sometimes don’t) ground. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 9:58 PM, Daniel Watson >>>>>>>> <watsondaniel3@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I purchased a pair of interesting glass envelope crystals for a >>>>>>>> project. >>>>>>>> Here are some pictures: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2016/02/glass-envelope-quartz-crystals.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone have an idea about what mount/socket I should buy for >>>>>>>> these? I >>>>>>>> read a previous thread on the list about Bliley crystals using >>>>>>>> a B7G >>>>>>>> mount, >>>>>>>> but I'm not sure if that type might work here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, when building up a circuit to make these oscillate, are >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> specific differences about crystals in this package that I should >>>>>>>> keep in >>>>>>>> mind? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks much, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan W. >>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >