radar
SNIP:
"Come on. Boats have been leaving the dock without radar for centuries
and returning safely. While radar is very nice to have, it's hardly
mandatory."
Well, the mortality rate of seamen and vessels was astronomically higher
in centuries past. For example, on Lake Superior alone, for example,
there have been more than 300 recorded shipwrecks since records were kept
about 150 years ago. But, since the advent of modern electronic nav
aides, the rate of shipwrecks can be counted on one hand with fingers
left over. Sure, you can go without radar, but you proceed at your own
peril. Many a seaman of yore are in Davy Jones locker because they lacked
modern nav aides.
David Sorenson
Duluth
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... But, since the advent of modern electronic nav
aides, the rate of shipwrecks can be counted on one hand with fingers
left over. Sure, you can go without radar, but you proceed at your own
peril.
So ranking the electronic nav aids, which has been most responsible in this
reduction?
Depth Sounder
VHF Radio
GPS/Chartplotter
Hailer
Weather Forecasting
Autopilot
Radar
-- Jim
So ranking the electronic nav aids, which has been most responsible in
this reduction?
Depth Sounder
VHF Radio
GPS/Chartplotter
Hailer
Weather Forecasting
Autopilot
Radar
You forgot the most important aid. The basic modern chart. Compare
today's charts with one from 1950!
Based on satellite and GPS data there are not many unmarked places you
can get in trouble today.
John Buckwalter
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Buckwalter" steam@usa2net.net
You forgot the most important aid. The basic modern chart. Compare
today's charts with one from 1950!
Based on satellite and GPS data there are not many unmarked places you can
get in trouble today.
John Buckwalter
REPLY
1950! Hey that is pretty modern in some places. <VBG>
Having involved with teaching navigation in the Power Squadron for twenty
yeas and also participated in hydrographic surveys and having spent years
installing navigation equipment since 1972, I would say there isn't any
one device you can definitively say is the 'most important'.
David's comment about reduction in shipwrecks in the Great Lakes has more
to do with greater knowledge about local hydrography and shore line, some
weather forecasting and better built ships ( boats) that any one
navigation instrument.
One time we had to make a delivery in early spring. As it turned out we
ended up with a totally unreliable compass ( later discovererd to be out by
25 degrees), no radio, no depth sounder, a faulty Loran instument. We
made do with a weight on a clothers line, tossed pop cans over the side and
times the interval from bow to stern and aproximated the course with
suitable 'aim-off' technique, a WW2 era pilot trick when crosing the
channel on a bombing mission.
Oh yeah there was dense fog all the way. The bow look out was almost
invisible from the cockpit on a 36 foot sailboat.
While not a recommended practice, it was sucessful because all of us were
power squadron instructors, we used what knowledge we had and we knew
what was to be found ashore as land marks, as well as under the keel.
People have been cruising in the Bahamas and the Caribbean for decades
knowing their charts dated back to Admiralty surveys dating back to 1832.
IMRAY charts from Donald Street wer found to be much better but still not
the result of any extensive modern survey.
Arild
If you must choose one instrument, the depth sounder is likely the best
choice.
A weight on a string has limitations in water depths over 100 feet. Even
in less depth the response time from reading to reaction time is too long
with the lead line.
Assuming you have some hydrography information availabel shoaling water or
drastic changes in depth is a significant clue you are standing into
danger.
Mind you on the west coast especially the PNW and Alaska; depths can vary
from 600 feet to zero in a couple of boat lenghts. Not much warning
there.
Arild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ague" ague@usa.net
So ranking the electronic nav aids, which has been most responsible in
this reduction?
Depth Sounder
VHF Radio
GPS/Chartplotter
Hailer
Weather Forecasting
Autopilot
Radar
This recent thread about electronic aids is indicative of a disturbing
trend.
People are becoming overly dependent on technology.
Yes the stuff is nice to have, but I have seen clients panic because one
of many devices stopped working.
I have also had clients run aground by ramming the shore consisting of
solid granite, because they had their heads buried in the radar scope or
looking too long at the chart plotter.
Their comment was "but the chart plotter said I was in the center of the
channel!" And that was a literal quote.
The channel in question was 20 feet wide bounded on both sides by solid
granite ( Georgian Bay shield rock) and involved two 30 degree course
changes from one end to the other of a 200 yard long channel.
That kind of over reliance on technology is just plain stupid. If the
skipper in question had bothred to look out the windshield he would have
seen where to go.
Another time a brand new cruiser that I had fitted forward looking sonar
on; was back in the yard to have all running gear; props struts and
rudders, replaced. The sheepish skipper remarked that he could not pull
back the throttles fast enough from warning beep to impact. Hello! We
all knew about the rocks he hit. But of course that was local knowledge not
something on an eChart.
I hate to say it but too many people have placed blind trust in the
electronics on board. This is dangerous! These people should not be out on
the water.
Remember that old fashioned word 'seamanship' ? Many of our list membes
have plenty of it. But unfortunately too many do not. How often have we
heard the comment "I'm planning on retiring and thinking of buying a boat"
The very manner of asking the subsequent questions reveal these people
lack experince in handling larger boars and all sort of condition.
These people at least ask for advice.
What scares me is how many more never bother asking and just buy a boat and
head out' with passengers ( guests, family and friends)
Sure its a free country, but maybe it should not be quite so free. Perhaps
some boating knowledge should be mandatory. >VBG>
Arild
So ranking the electronic nav aids, which has been most responsible in
this
reduction?
Depth Sounder
VHF Radio
GPS/Chartplotter
Hailer
Weather Forecasting
Autopilot
Radar
Well, in terms of actual good effect, probably one which has now fallen off
the list.
Radio Direction Finding. RDF
Arguably also weather forecasting.
Richard
The original question was to rank ( in order) how important each nav aid
was.
Below is my personal ranking in order with most important first.
Compass
Depth Sounder
Chart ( paper back up)
VHF Radio / Hailer
Radar
AIS
GPS/Chartplotter
Autopilot
Weather Forecast receiver
While some will argue a different sequence, there is a logical reason for
this progression.
Even if its a hand held hockey puck type compass it serves a use even
aboard dinghies returning home after dark. It keeps you from going in
circles under low viz. conditions
Except for dinghies and tenders, knowing the depth of water is often
critical . When combined with a chart this is one of the most basic and
time honored methods of navigation.
Arild
Arild Says:
...This recent thread about electronic aids is indicative of a disturbing
trend.
People are becoming overly dependent on technology.
Yes the stuff is nice to have, but I have seen clients panic because one
of many devices stopped working...
What scares me is how many more never bother asking and just buy a boat
and head out' with passengers ( guests, family and friends)
...Sure its a free country, but maybe it should not be quite so free.
Perhaps some boating knowledge should be mandatory.
Arild,
I think that you said it well and said it all. The admiral holds a pilot
license and when we took up boating; constantly reminded me get my head out
of the cockpit, along with an impossible biological insertion. Hopefully,
by now I have improved on that proclivity.
Stephen Offutt
M/Y Dutch Master, Heritage East 40
stephen@ourdutchmaster.com