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Alanui 350miles down, 150 to go!

SE
Scott E. Bulger
Sat, Feb 23, 2008 5:48 PM

We are 35 miles off the coast of Guatemala at 13'22.410N and 90'56.720W,
just south of Puerto San Jose.  We have 350 out of 500 miles under our keel.
The trip has been picture perfect with a full moon, flat seas and calm
winds.  To top it all of this morning I had 4 sailfish strikes, but no
hookups (still learning how to hook set these critters).  It's worth noting
that last night at sunset we were about 25 or 30 miles south of Puerto
Madero when we started to encounter long lines.  We navigated around the
first one after the panga skipper freed up a line from one of the boats
stabilizers, but about an hour later I picked up a line in complete
darkness.  The panga operator made no effort to guide us around his lines.
As we passed over the line it hung up on my port fin, but didn't get caught
in either priop.  I quickly grabbed it with a boat hook as we were bleeding
off speed and could feel that it might pull right through the hang up once
cut.  Sure enough I cut the line, dropped both ends in the water and 10
seconds later we were long line free!  We made the decision to head another
20 miles off shore and only encountered one more line in the entire evening.
We have been told the long lines in Guatemala and El Salvador are often lit
at night, so they should be easier to navigate around.  Few things are as
stressful as managing being caught in a net or line at night.  Fortunately
for us it was a quick fix, I believe the Gods are with us on this voyage.

Several people commented that they preferred the "foot on the beach"
approach to crossing the Gulf of Tehuantepec.  With the aid of Bob Jones at
OMNI, Enrique (Harbormaster at Marina Chahue), and my dad in FL, we had
three sources that all said the GofT would be flat calm.  They were exactly
right, with Bob Jones even correctly anticipating an early morning rain
shower to lightly rinse the salt off our boats!  Most people I talk to are
taking the direct route, AFTER waiting for a window.  I suspect this will
become the norm in the future as more people discard the practice of hugging
the beach.  Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for those of you
that will never do anything different based on your experience!  I'm sure
it's born of real world experience where the Tpeckers beat the heck out of
you or a friend.  I also think it's gotten much more predictable as the
weather systems that cause Tpeckers are better understood.

In summary, we hope to arrive at  the bar entrance to Barillas Marina at
10:00am tomorrow morning and go up the river to catch a slack at 11.  With
any luck we will have lunch at the Marina.  Oh, Marian has done a great job
of manning the helm in the night, so I'm MUCH better rested this trip than
previous overnights.

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA

We are 35 miles off the coast of Guatemala at 13'22.410N and 90'56.720W, just south of Puerto San Jose. We have 350 out of 500 miles under our keel. The trip has been picture perfect with a full moon, flat seas and calm winds. To top it all of this morning I had 4 sailfish strikes, but no hookups (still learning how to hook set these critters). It's worth noting that last night at sunset we were about 25 or 30 miles south of Puerto Madero when we started to encounter long lines. We navigated around the first one after the panga skipper freed up a line from one of the boats stabilizers, but about an hour later I picked up a line in complete darkness. The panga operator made no effort to guide us around his lines. As we passed over the line it hung up on my port fin, but didn't get caught in either priop. I quickly grabbed it with a boat hook as we were bleeding off speed and could feel that it might pull right through the hang up once cut. Sure enough I cut the line, dropped both ends in the water and 10 seconds later we were long line free! We made the decision to head another 20 miles off shore and only encountered one more line in the entire evening. We have been told the long lines in Guatemala and El Salvador are often lit at night, so they should be easier to navigate around. Few things are as stressful as managing being caught in a net or line at night. Fortunately for us it was a quick fix, I believe the Gods are with us on this voyage. Several people commented that they preferred the "foot on the beach" approach to crossing the Gulf of Tehuantepec. With the aid of Bob Jones at OMNI, Enrique (Harbormaster at Marina Chahue), and my dad in FL, we had three sources that all said the GofT would be flat calm. They were exactly right, with Bob Jones even correctly anticipating an early morning rain shower to lightly rinse the salt off our boats! Most people I talk to are taking the direct route, AFTER waiting for a window. I suspect this will become the norm in the future as more people discard the practice of hugging the beach. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for those of you that will never do anything different based on your experience! I'm sure it's born of real world experience where the Tpeckers beat the heck out of you or a friend. I also think it's gotten much more predictable as the weather systems that cause Tpeckers are better understood. In summary, we hope to arrive at the bar entrance to Barillas Marina at 10:00am tomorrow morning and go up the river to catch a slack at 11. With any luck we will have lunch at the Marina. Oh, Marian has done a great job of manning the helm in the night, so I'm MUCH better rested this trip than previous overnights. Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
KW
Ken Williams
Sat, Feb 23, 2008 6:19 PM

Scott:

Great post about the long lines.

Can I resend it to my blog list?

Any advice for me on avoiding them? I'll be behind you in a couple weeks.

-Ken Williams

PS We're still in Ixtapa and enjoying it here!

Scott: Great post about the long lines. Can I resend it to my blog list? Any advice for me on avoiding them? I'll be behind you in a couple weeks. -Ken Williams PS We're still in Ixtapa and enjoying it here!
PP
Peter Pisciotta
Sun, Feb 24, 2008 8:35 PM

Re: Crossing Teuhentepec: Most people I talk to are
taking the direct route, AFTER waiting for a window.
I suspect this will become the norm in the future
as more people discard the practice of hugging
the beach.  Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but
respect for those of you
that will never do anything different based on your
experience!

I respect Scott's decision, but I'll take a moment to
describe why I'm a beach-route guy. This is a
passagemaking list, and this is a great topic.

The weather system that causes T-Peckers - a high
pressure system above Texas that spins winds through
the mountainous gaps - has been well known for years.
And yes, with better communications, that information
can be disseminated.

There are 2 problems:

  1. The wait for a wx window can be long.
  2. Wx predictions aren't always accurate. Given the
    offshore nature of the winds, the only direction to
    avoid a T-Pecker is to head west a couple hundred
    miles. Even a moderate T-pecker will cause a 60-foot
    vessel to slow to 4-knots or less, and change
    direction. Which means that the 45-nms shortened
    distance (about 6-7 hours) will be lost, and then
    some.

I don't mean to be one of those naysayers, but places
like Hualtulco are chock full of relatively new
cruisers who left their West Coast base in prime
cruising weather and simply don't have any experience
with what getting caught with a wrong wx forecast can
mean. T-pec is legendary so it doesn't surprise me
that folks wait a very long time for the perfect wx
window, but when the decision comes to crossing
Papagayo in Costa Rica (similar wx rules apply), I'd
bet that many folks aren't as patient - and get
slammed. The only good news is it's a shorter
distance.

Personally, I've lost a lot of time over the years
taking a short cut and having weather beat me back.
I'd rather be wrong by having the weather pleasantly
beautiful (at which point you can angle out to sea and
regain a little time) than be wrong the hard way:
expecting beautiful weather and getting surprised 40
miles to leeward of any protection.

Just my opinion.

Peter
W36 Sedan
(and ex Pacific Coast delivery skipper)

> Re: Crossing Teuhentepec: Most people I talk to are > taking the direct route, AFTER waiting for a window. > I suspect this will become the norm in the future > as more people discard the practice of hugging > the beach. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but > respect for those of you > that will never do anything different based on your > experience! I respect Scott's decision, but I'll take a moment to describe why I'm a beach-route guy. This is a passagemaking list, and this is a great topic. The weather system that causes T-Peckers - a high pressure system above Texas that spins winds through the mountainous gaps - has been well known for years. And yes, with better communications, that information can be disseminated. There are 2 problems: 1. The wait for a wx window can be long. 2. Wx predictions aren't always accurate. Given the offshore nature of the winds, the only direction to avoid a T-Pecker is to head west a couple hundred miles. Even a moderate T-pecker will cause a 60-foot vessel to slow to 4-knots or less, and change direction. Which means that the 45-nms shortened distance (about 6-7 hours) will be lost, and then some. I don't mean to be one of those naysayers, but places like Hualtulco are chock full of relatively new cruisers who left their West Coast base in prime cruising weather and simply don't have any experience with what getting caught with a wrong wx forecast can mean. T-pec is legendary so it doesn't surprise me that folks wait a very long time for the perfect wx window, but when the decision comes to crossing Papagayo in Costa Rica (similar wx rules apply), I'd bet that many folks aren't as patient - and get slammed. The only good news is it's a shorter distance. Personally, I've lost a lot of time over the years taking a short cut and having weather beat me back. I'd rather be wrong by having the weather pleasantly beautiful (at which point you can angle out to sea and regain a little time) than be wrong the hard way: expecting beautiful weather and getting surprised 40 miles to leeward of any protection. Just my opinion. Peter W36 Sedan (and ex Pacific Coast delivery skipper)
SE
Scott E. Bulger
Tue, Feb 26, 2008 8:28 PM

Ken:  Answers below

Scott:

Great post about the long lines.

[scott]  thank you!

Can I resend it to my blog list?

[scott] you have my permission to put anything I put in the public domain on
your blog (including anything from www.alanui.talkspot.com).  I'd
respectfully ask you to keep any one-on-one communication private, thanks!

Any advice for me on avoiding them? I'll be behind you in a couple weeks.

[scott]  I think I said in a followup email that if I were to make this trip
again I'd do the following:
a.  Get the weather window from 3 sources (yourself, Bob Jones at OMNI and
Enrique at Marina Chahue) all in agreement you have at least 36 to 72 hours
of good weather to go straight across.
b.  Prepare the boat for a blow.  Tie the hot tub cover down, strip the
cushions from the seats, stow any canvas, no loose lines on deck that could
foul the props...  Alanui was never more ship shape than when we departed
across the GofT.  There wasn't a thing on deck that was exposed.  All
lockers inside were closed and locked.  The lazarette had every container
bungeed in place.  The abandon ship bag, medical kit and all other safety
equipment was located in a fixed location in the saloon.
c.  Get the MMSI numbers of boats leaving ahead of you, and behind you so
you can keep in constant contact with them if possible.  It's really nice to
call 20 miles ahead and behind to verify conditions are good.  Also at
3:00am the company can be indispensable as you entertain each other in the
wee hours of the morning.
d.  We were 4 boats, a Nordhavn 40 (Alanui, the smallest), a Nordhavn 43
(Paloma), a 44 Defeaver (Frayed Knot) and a 45 Sailboat (Komara).  Our speed
was set by Komara who was best able to make 6.5 knots under power with no
wind.  At times he made better than 8 knots, but 85% of the trip was at 6 to
6.5.  We formed a loose formation not paying much attention to how we were
situated, but just maintaining 1 mile of separation at night.  Frayed Knot
often went a few miles one way or another in search of fish, but the rest of
us stayed within 2 miles of each other.
e.  What I'd do differently is:
1.  Make sure everyone was in agreement about arrival time at the
meet point for the pilot boat.  I don't think you want to enter this river
estuary any other time than close to slack.  If you arrive on an ebb you're
going to fight waves that stack up on the bar and a long slog up the
estuary.  It worked out that our 6.5knot cruise was PERFECT for an 10:45
arrival, 15 minutes prior to slack preceeding the flood.  We entered the
river in perfect conditions and rode the flood to the mooring buoys.  Had we
not coordinated our arrival with the slack I think we would have regretted
it.
2.  At night I'd form a single file line of boats, rather than an
offset L we normally favor.  While I'm sure some will argue that there is
danger in running over the top of a boat that comes to a halt, I would
prefer to be diligent about it rather than expose more boats to the hazard
of running over a long line.  It just seems to me cutting a 40' path through
the sea is much better than cutting a 2 or 3 mile wide path if the boats are
all strung out side by side.
3.  If you can't make Barillas by 15:00 I'd divert to Marina Del
Sol, about 26 miles West of here.  While the bar is a bit tricker, it would
be a nice place to spend the night rather than anchoring in the Pacific with
no cover.

I'm certainly no expert on this with only one crossing, but this is what I'd
do again, and what I'd do differently.

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

Ken: Answers below Scott: Great post about the long lines. [scott] thank you! Can I resend it to my blog list? [scott] you have my permission to put anything I put in the public domain on your blog (including anything from www.alanui.talkspot.com). I'd respectfully ask you to keep any one-on-one communication private, thanks! Any advice for me on avoiding them? I'll be behind you in a couple weeks. [scott] I think I said in a followup email that if I were to make this trip again I'd do the following: a. Get the weather window from 3 sources (yourself, Bob Jones at OMNI and Enrique at Marina Chahue) all in agreement you have at least 36 to 72 hours of good weather to go straight across. b. Prepare the boat for a blow. Tie the hot tub cover down, strip the cushions from the seats, stow any canvas, no loose lines on deck that could foul the props... Alanui was never more ship shape than when we departed across the GofT. There wasn't a thing on deck that was exposed. All lockers inside were closed and locked. The lazarette had every container bungeed in place. The abandon ship bag, medical kit and all other safety equipment was located in a fixed location in the saloon. c. Get the MMSI numbers of boats leaving ahead of you, and behind you so you can keep in constant contact with them if possible. It's really nice to call 20 miles ahead and behind to verify conditions are good. Also at 3:00am the company can be indispensable as you entertain each other in the wee hours of the morning. d. We were 4 boats, a Nordhavn 40 (Alanui, the smallest), a Nordhavn 43 (Paloma), a 44 Defeaver (Frayed Knot) and a 45 Sailboat (Komara). Our speed was set by Komara who was best able to make 6.5 knots under power with no wind. At times he made better than 8 knots, but 85% of the trip was at 6 to 6.5. We formed a loose formation not paying much attention to how we were situated, but just maintaining 1 mile of separation at night. Frayed Knot often went a few miles one way or another in search of fish, but the rest of us stayed within 2 miles of each other. e. What I'd do differently is: 1. Make sure everyone was in agreement about arrival time at the meet point for the pilot boat. I don't think you want to enter this river estuary any other time than close to slack. If you arrive on an ebb you're going to fight waves that stack up on the bar and a long slog up the estuary. It worked out that our 6.5knot cruise was PERFECT for an 10:45 arrival, 15 minutes prior to slack preceeding the flood. We entered the river in perfect conditions and rode the flood to the mooring buoys. Had we not coordinated our arrival with the slack I think we would have regretted it. 2. At night I'd form a single file line of boats, rather than an offset L we normally favor. While I'm sure some will argue that there is danger in running over the top of a boat that comes to a halt, I would prefer to be diligent about it rather than expose more boats to the hazard of running over a long line. It just seems to me cutting a 40' path through the sea is much better than cutting a 2 or 3 mile wide path if the boats are all strung out side by side. 3. If you can't make Barillas by 15:00 I'd divert to Marina Del Sol, about 26 miles West of here. While the bar is a bit tricker, it would be a nice place to spend the night rather than anchoring in the Pacific with no cover. I'm certainly no expert on this with only one crossing, but this is what I'd do again, and what I'd do differently. Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
JM
John Marshall
Tue, Feb 26, 2008 8:56 PM

Scott,
You say...

I'm certainly no expert on this with only one crossing, but this is
what I'd
do again, and what I'd do differently.

Yet I sense that's changing very rapidly... you're not being an
expert, that is. Thanks for the long and detailed posts... some of us
who will come down there later will be better prepared because of
them, and the various discussions that follow.

John Marshall
Serendipity - N55-20

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.


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Scott, You say... > > I'm certainly no expert on this with only one crossing, but this is > what I'd > do again, and what I'd do differently. Yet I sense that's changing very rapidly... you're not being an expert, that is. Thanks for the long and detailed posts... some of us who will come down there later will be better prepared because of them, and the various discussions that follow. John Marshall Serendipity - N55-20 > > > Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions. > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
SE
Scott E. Bulger
Tue, Feb 26, 2008 9:10 PM

There are few people I respect more than Peter Pisciotta and Dr. Bob Austin.
It is respect for their experience and wisdom that caused me to put the
short disclaimer in my posting.  I was certain that some would take
exception to what I posted.  That said, the reality is that today more
people are going across then hugging the beach, a LOT more.  With the
shenanigans the Port Captain at Puerto Madero is up to (new random exit fees
being tacked on to cruisers exit process) and the number of fishing boats to
deal with, an offshore route, IN THE APPROPRIATE WEATHER WINDOW, has become
the norm.  If I was a delivery skipper and needed or wanted to advance a
boat in spite of a Tpecker blowing I'd take the beach route.  If I was a
cruiser without an agenda or time table (something we adopted from the start
to keep us out of trouble) then I'd simply wait.  If you watch the G of T
for a month you will see the periods between Tpeckers are as benign as the
rest of this coast.  It's a matter of being patient, staying in touch with
quality weather sources, and having a boat prepared for the worst, but ready
to when they say go.

Oh, also, you better be ready to turn back or not leave when originally
planned.  Often people get so focused on leaving they will not evaluate
turning back in case the forecast starts to break down.  There was a story
about a boat that was close to leaving and the day he left he said the
weather forecast changed.  He got caught in a moderate blow, took some lumps
on the nose, but made it fine.  My question was, when the forecast changed
why didn't he just stay at the dock?  He got so fixated on leaving he took
the last forecast that suggested he MIGHT make it and left.  Had he been
more willing to wait another week or two, he could have crossed with us.

These decisions are never easy.  I'm simply relating the facts as we
experienced them.  We were preceded in the voyage by the wooden sailboat
Fandango with Doug and Mary aboard.  Doug has 26 Atlantic ocean crossings
under his belt and this was the first time he took the route straight across
the G of T.  I can only assume he has finally become comfortable that the
vast array of weather products has reached a point where he can trust them
to be right for at least 48 hours.

Thanks for reading along!  Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA

There are few people I respect more than Peter Pisciotta and Dr. Bob Austin. It is respect for their experience and wisdom that caused me to put the short disclaimer in my posting. I was certain that some would take exception to what I posted. That said, the reality is that today more people are going across then hugging the beach, a LOT more. With the shenanigans the Port Captain at Puerto Madero is up to (new random exit fees being tacked on to cruisers exit process) and the number of fishing boats to deal with, an offshore route, IN THE APPROPRIATE WEATHER WINDOW, has become the norm. If I was a delivery skipper and needed or wanted to advance a boat in spite of a Tpecker blowing I'd take the beach route. If I was a cruiser without an agenda or time table (something we adopted from the start to keep us out of trouble) then I'd simply wait. If you watch the G of T for a month you will see the periods between Tpeckers are as benign as the rest of this coast. It's a matter of being patient, staying in touch with quality weather sources, and having a boat prepared for the worst, but ready to when they say go. Oh, also, you better be ready to turn back or not leave when originally planned. Often people get so focused on leaving they will not evaluate turning back in case the forecast starts to break down. There was a story about a boat that was close to leaving and the day he left he said the weather forecast changed. He got caught in a moderate blow, took some lumps on the nose, but made it fine. My question was, when the forecast changed why didn't he just stay at the dock? He got so fixated on leaving he took the last forecast that suggested he MIGHT make it and left. Had he been more willing to wait another week or two, he could have crossed with us. These decisions are never easy. I'm simply relating the facts as we experienced them. We were preceded in the voyage by the wooden sailboat Fandango with Doug and Mary aboard. Doug has 26 Atlantic ocean crossings under his belt and this was the first time he took the route straight across the G of T. I can only assume he has finally become comfortable that the vast array of weather products has reached a point where he can trust them to be right for at least 48 hours. Thanks for reading along! Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
PP
Peter Pisciotta
Wed, Feb 27, 2008 4:54 AM

This is a great open discussion - with good points on
both sides. It's a slow month, and frankly I think
weather gets short shift on boating lists, so I'll
bite with one more post.

I can't say I disagree with Scott: with a known 7-day
weather window from multiple credible sources, I might
go straight across too. But I just don't have the
patience to wait around for an uber-window like that,
even as a cruiser vs a delivery captain: when it's
time to leave, I get antsy waiting for wx. Especially
when there's a safe, comfortable, and low-risk beach
route available at least 2-days out of 7 (a guess). I
wish there was an equally simple alternative to
getting around the California Points/Capes -- with
just a 6-hour penalty. Why wouldn't I do that???

Crossings like T-Pec are all about lowering risks, and
I guess waiting for an enormous weather window is one
way. I'm glad more people are able to lower their
risk. But for me (impatient), I'd get spanked sooner
or later (okay, it's happened a few times - okay,
several times, well...you get the point). Nothing life
threatening - just super annoying. It sucks to slow to
3-knots and head 60-degrees off course and have a
river entrance unpassable due to darkness or current
(Scott - great tip for a back-up if Los Barrillos is
impassable). I hate soda can projectiles launched out
of refrigerators damaging 15-coats of varnish. What's
worse is spending the next 5-years looking at the
moose-print divot memorial in the floor (err, I don't
have any fine varnish----but if I did...).

And yea, wx has gotten more accurate but it's still
far from perfect. Just look at a few days of Wx
charts: systems appear and disappear all the time for
no reason other than a shift change at the NWS offices

  • one forecaster saw a developing system, the next one
    didn't, so POOF, it's gone! And these are the big
    kahuna's of forecasting: trained by the military with
    umpteen years of doing nothing but forecasting
    weather.

Good on you Scott! Have a beer for everyone on the
list. And 2 for me.

Peter
Willard 36
San Francisco (boat)

=======================
Peter Pisciotta
415-902-8439

This is a great open discussion - with good points on both sides. It's a slow month, and frankly I think weather gets short shift on boating lists, so I'll bite with one more post. I can't say I disagree with Scott: with a known 7-day weather window from multiple credible sources, I might go straight across too. But I just don't have the patience to wait around for an uber-window like that, even as a cruiser vs a delivery captain: when it's time to leave, I get antsy waiting for wx. Especially when there's a safe, comfortable, and low-risk beach route available at least 2-days out of 7 (a guess). I wish there was an equally simple alternative to getting around the California Points/Capes -- with just a 6-hour penalty. Why wouldn't I do that??? Crossings like T-Pec are all about lowering risks, and I guess waiting for an enormous weather window is one way. I'm glad more people are able to lower their risk. But for me (impatient), I'd get spanked sooner or later (okay, it's happened a few times - okay, several times, well...you get the point). Nothing life threatening - just super annoying. It sucks to slow to 3-knots and head 60-degrees off course and have a river entrance unpassable due to darkness or current (Scott - great tip for a back-up if Los Barrillos is impassable). I hate soda can projectiles launched out of refrigerators damaging 15-coats of varnish. What's worse is spending the next 5-years looking at the moose-print divot memorial in the floor (err, I don't have any fine varnish----but if I did...). And yea, wx has gotten more accurate but it's still far from perfect. Just look at a few days of Wx charts: systems appear and disappear all the time for no reason other than a shift change at the NWS offices - one forecaster saw a developing system, the next one didn't, so POOF, it's gone! And these are the big kahuna's of forecasting: trained by the military with umpteen years of doing nothing but forecasting weather. Good on you Scott! Have a beer for everyone on the list. And 2 for me. Peter Willard 36 San Francisco (boat) ======================= Peter Pisciotta 415-902-8439