TWL: norcold Refrigeration - How does it work?
Hi all:
On our "new" Monk 36, we have what I believe is a "Norcold" firdge/freezer,
looks like a sm apt unit. This boat does not have a generator. I am
guessing that it runs off of the batteries which re-charge when the engine is
running via the alternator.
Any comments or suggestions? I'm slightly embarassed to note that I have no
idea how many batteries are on the boat. She is in Quebec and we are in
Mass, so I can't poke around !
JE
Hi JE:
On our "new" Monk 36, we have what I believe is a "Norcold"
firdge/freezer, > looks like a sm apt unit. This boat does not have a
generator. I am
guessing that it runs off of the batteries which re-charge when the engine
is
running via the alternator. Any comments or suggestions
We have a Norcold on Nostrum Again. It is a dual voltage model which runs
off both 12 V (ships' batteries) and 110 shore (or generator) power, if
available.
We have found it to be marginal at best. It is small (will not hold a
gallon of milk, only half gallon size at best, and then only 3 maximum). In
the winter when the ambient temperature is low it will keep food relatively
cool, but in the summer the box temperature is no where near adequate.
(We've lost too much food over the years to be happy with its' service)
In addition, since it cycles on and off all the time it uses a lot of
electricity. The amount of insulation is minimal in this type of
rerigerator, so it requires lots of compressor time.
Because we are imminent "cruiseaboarders" we have made arragements to have a
"cold plate" installed in mid-March. We chartered a boat in the BVI's a few
years back that had a cold plate, and it worked exceedingly well. (Ice
cream in the tropics in August? No problem).
There will be som expense in the purchase and installation, but we hope it
will be worth it. We'll let you know.
Bob Foss
Nostrum Agaain
37' Newburryport
Nostrum Again
I have been following this thread on Norcold refrigerators with great
interest because we are considering one for a new boat. Has anyone else
experienced the poor thermal performance that has been reported or the lack
of storage space?
Vic McCloskey
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Foss bfoss@tri-lakes.net
To: JE1449@aol.com; trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:20 PM
Subject: TWL: Re: norcold Refrigeration - How does it work?
Hi JE:
On our "new" Monk 36, we have what I believe is a "Norcold"
firdge/freezer, > looks like a sm apt unit. This boat does not have a
generator. I am
guessing that it runs off of the batteries which re-charge when the
engine
is
running via the alternator. Any comments or suggestions
We have a Norcold on Nostrum Again. It is a dual voltage model which runs
off both 12 V (ships' batteries) and 110 shore (or generator) power, if
available.
We have found it to be marginal at best. It is small (will not hold a
gallon of milk, only half gallon size at best, and then only 3 maximum).
In
the winter when the ambient temperature is low it will keep food
relatively
cool, but in the summer the box temperature is no where near adequate.
(We've lost too much food over the years to be happy with its' service)
In addition, since it cycles on and off all the time it uses a lot of
electricity. The amount of insulation is minimal in this type of
rerigerator, so it requires lots of compressor time.
Because we are imminent "cruiseaboarders" we have made arragements to have
a
"cold plate" installed in mid-March. We chartered a boat in the BVI's a
few
years back that had a cold plate, and it worked exceedingly well. (Ice
cream in the tropics in August? No problem).
There will be som expense in the purchase and installation, but we hope it
will be worth it. We'll let you know.
Bob Foss
Nostrum Agaain
37' Newburryport
Nostrum Again
Victor McCloskey wrote:
I have been following this thread on Norcold refrigerators with great
interest because we are considering one for a new boat. Has anyone else
experienced the poor thermal performance that has been reported or the lack
of storage space?
snip > We have found it to be marginal at best. It is small (will not hold a
gallon of milk, only half gallon size at best, and then only 3 maximum).
In
the winter when the ambient temperature is low it will keep food
relatively
cool, but in the summer the box temperature is no where near adequate.
(We've lost too much food over the years to be happy with its' service) snip
Absolutely. I put electronic thermometers in both the freezer and the main box
to monitor temperature without opening the door.
The box simply doesn't cut it when the cabin is in the 80s. We may get 40F. It
holds a normal 39F when the cabin is chilly. That's the highest that food should
be kept in a refrigerator, according to what I've read. The freezer does stay
cold, however, at about 20F or below.
This performance is the same on three boats we've had with Norcolds . It runs
50% of the time in the summer, with the air conditioning running all the time
and cabin at about 78F. Normal for home-type refrigerators is about 1/3 time.
And we don't ask it to make ice. We seldom open the freezer door. We keep less
necessary things in another reefer and have an icemaker.
There is no light inside any of the Norcolds we've seen. The orientation in the
galley and the way the door opens makes it dark in there all the time.
Ours, like most boats, is built into a cabinet, so replacing it means we need an
even smaller unit to fit the cabinet if it's not identical in size. We're
considering what to do about it. I'm not about to rebuild the cabinet.
Friends who made the move to a house box bought one for about $275. It keeps
food cold, has a light, and was a fraction of the cost of the Norcold. The
reason is partly that it has no 12VDC capability, but then they have an inverter
on all the time. They live aboard full time and cruise wherever it's very warm,
and are very happy with the choice. Its a "Welbilt WFF9", which company since
has been sold to Heier -- goto www.Haieramerica.com and search a bit for the
refrigerators -- they're an industrial supplier now. It's about the size of the
popular upright Norcold. The usable space is a matter relative to what you
need. The Welbilt may have been the right size for them. The price certainly
seemed right.
The concern raised here about the square-wave inverter output possibly causing
shorter life for the compressor is new to me, but it seems possible. A company
engineer might be able to address that, but if it's a house box it seem unlikely
that they're knowledgeable about inverters. The "home power" people should know,
however, if you can find a reference on the Web to those who live with non-grid
power.
--
Regards --- Don Dement --- Annapolis
Bob,
We have a Norcold also. The tall one - over/under
refrigerator/freezer. 18-yr-old original equipment. Seems to run well
for its age, but struggles when the ambient temperature gets high.
Where are you installing the coldplate? Inside the Norcold box? Are
you removing the Norcold and putting a top-loading chest in? Will the
compressor be driven off the main engine or be electrically driven?
Also, my Norcold eats 7-8 amps when it's running on 12-volt power. Do
any of you ampere counters out there know how much a comparably-sized,
AC-powered household unit running off an inverter would use? That is,
how much would the inverter draw while the refer was cycling?
Sandpiper
West Indian 36
Annapolis, MD
Hi Melvin:
Where are you installing the coldplate? Inside the Norcold box? Are
you removing the Norcold and putting a top-loading chest in?
We are going to remove the Norcold entirely, and build a well insulated
top-loading box for the cold plate.
Will the compressor be driven off the main engine or be electrically
driven?
We've talked with the installer (a friend,whom we trust, and who has put in
lots of these units) extensively about the "best" way to go.(As you're well
aware, "best" is always a compromise). Originally we were considering a
dual unit driven off both the engine, and AC. That increases the
complexity, and cost, significantly, though.
I think we have now decided upon an AC only unit.
Bob Foss
Nostrum Again
Regarding cold plate reefers and fridges.
A friend of mine equipped his 30 foot express cruiser with a chest freezer
by using the space in between the bunks in the cuddy cabin and using 6" of
foam insulation.
The cold plate was located in one end of the chest and a partition divided
the chest into two compartments.
The top of the partition was 2" below the top so cold air could spill
over from the freezer compartment into the other half. This served
to make the other half a fridge instead of a freezer. Milk and butter
were kept cold but did not freeze.
While the capacity of this home built unit was no bigger than a Norcold it
did fit into a space not normally used and it was powered by an 800 watt
inverter which was fed by two Group 29 size batteries. This arrangement
served well for the past three years on cruises as long as two weeks on
end. Total cost of the cold plate compressor and inverter was half the
cost of a new Norcold.
Cheers
Arild
Our boat came with an ac/dc Norcold refrigerator/freezer. The compressor
was quite noisy and ate batteries when running on DC (we had no inverter
then). We spent our first summer at the dock most of the time trying to
keep the refrigerator cold. We switched to a Norcold ac/dc/propane
refrigerator. It is quiet and works very well in the Pacific Northwest
temperatures. We can keep ice cream and make ice cubes in the freezer
portion of ours.
The one big thing about refrigerators on boats -- you have to have adequate
ventilation whether it is ac/dc or propane. In fact we just installed an RV
type refrigerator vent on Seabird. (it's about 18 x 20") and we can notice
the difference. There has to be somewhere for all the heat generated in the
back of the refrigerator to go.
If I were to complain, it would be the fact that they make the door capable
of opening from left or right which makes the storage space on the door
shelves hard to use since they are not very large. We also have a large
deep freeze with cold plates (compressor driven - AC) which stays at -10
degrees most of the time.
Anne & Bob
Seabird 45' CHB p/h
Port Townsend, WA
I called mine the "Never-Cold", but there are a few things you can do to
improve performance. Put a few pancake fans in the back to keep the air
moving, and raise the wiresize to #10 keeping the run short. IMHO you still
can't beat an inverter and a commodity AC refrigerator/freezer if you don't
want to take out a mortgage on a holding plate unit. I had a Grunert on my
Morgan 51 and it was great.
Regards...
Phil Rosch
Dolly Surpride MT 44DC
Wakefield, RI, 02879-7513
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com
[mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com] On Behalf Of Victor McCloskey
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:24 PM
To: Bob Foss; JE1449@aol.com; trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Subject: TWL: Re: Re: norcold Refrigeration - How does it work?
I have been following this thread on Norcold refrigerators with great
interest because we are considering one for a new boat. Has anyone else
experienced the poor thermal performance that has been reported or the lack
of storage space?
Vic McCloskey
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Foss bfoss@tri-lakes.net
To: JE1449@aol.com; trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:20 PM
Subject: TWL: Re: norcold Refrigeration - How does it work?
Hi JE:
On our "new" Monk 36, we have what I believe is a "Norcold"
firdge/freezer, > looks like a sm apt unit. This boat does not have a
generator. I am
guessing that it runs off of the batteries which re-charge when the
engine
is
running via the alternator. Any comments or suggestions
We have a Norcold on Nostrum Again. It is a dual voltage model which runs
off both 12 V (ships' batteries) and 110 shore (or generator) power, if
available.
We have found it to be marginal at best. It is small (will not hold a
gallon of milk, only half gallon size at best, and then only 3 maximum).
In
the winter when the ambient temperature is low it will keep food
relatively
cool, but in the summer the box temperature is no where near adequate.
(We've lost too much food over the years to be happy with its' service)
In addition, since it cycles on and off all the time it uses a lot of
electricity. The amount of insulation is minimal in this type of
rerigerator, so it requires lots of compressor time.
Because we are imminent "cruiseaboarders" we have made arragements to have
a
"cold plate" installed in mid-March. We chartered a boat in the BVI's a
few
years back that had a cold plate, and it worked exceedingly well. (Ice
cream in the tropics in August? No problem).
There will be som expense in the purchase and installation, but we hope it
will be worth it. We'll let you know.
Bob Foss
Nostrum Agaain
37' Newburryport
Nostrum Again