Empathy List Archives

DD

Dr. David Kirkby

Tue, Dec 13, 2022 11:47 AM

There was a discussion on another list about data from Gridwatch

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

"Gridwatch watching is an interest on this list so I thought I would raise
the question of what was happening last night. The demand did the usual
thing of tailing off after 8pm and then spiked multiple times until 2330 to
0015 this morning when there was a 45min period at peak demand. Does anyone
know what caused that behaviour?"

Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if
anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one
would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand.

Dr David Kirkby Ph.D
Email: drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web:
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100)
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT.

There was a discussion on another list about data from Gridwatch https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ "Gridwatch watching is an interest on this list so I thought I would raise the question of what was happening last night. The demand did the usual thing of tailing off after 8pm and then spiked multiple times until 2330 to 0015 this morning when there was a 45min period at peak demand. Does anyone know what caused that behaviour?" Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand. Dr David Kirkby Ph.D Email: drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web: https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100) Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT.

PK

Poul-Henning Kamp

Tue, Dec 13, 2022 1:28 PM

Dr. David Kirkby via time-nuts writes:

Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if
anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one
would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand.

The "pumped storage" curve seems to correlate ?

(I'm on the Nordic side of the divide and my frequency logging does not look
out of the ordinary.)

--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

-------- Dr. David Kirkby via time-nuts writes: > Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if > anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one > would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand. The "pumped storage" curve seems to correlate ? (I'm on the Nordic side of the divide and my frequency logging does not look out of the ordinary.) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

D

dschuecker

Wed, Dec 14, 2022 10:54 AM

Hi,

it is probably a data collection issue imho.

I downloaded the data from gridwatch and compared the frequency with my
own collection. Be aware that the UK frequency is not the same as the
ENTSO-E frequency. My data is from ENTSO-E.

See enclosed graphics. Upper part is the demand in the UK, Mo 8pm to Tue
8am in blue, Tue 8pm to Wed 8am in orange. You see the high demand
changes in the relevant time interval.

This is albeit not reflected in the frequency in the UK, see lower part.

But: The frequency changes in the UK in the first half of the night
Tue-Wed are a lot higher (std 0.0851 Hz) than in the second half ( std
0.0633 ) or in the entire night Mo-Tue (0.0601 Hz). Maybe this is an
indication that they where fighting something last night that they did
not fight the night before and this resulted in the demand peaks. Maybe
there was a production peak due to a North-Sea storm. They had to get
rid of the power and started all their pumped storage power stations,
which led to the peak. But this is only my guess. I have no idea about
the number of UK pumped storage power stations or how to get North-Sea
wind data.

Another interesting detail: During nighttime the ENTSO-E frequency seems
to follow a plan. The frequency is similar during the two nights. That
is not true for the UK freq. .

Cheers

Detlef

Am 13.12.2022 um 14:28 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp via time-nuts:

Dr. David Kirkby via time-nuts writes:

Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if
anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one
would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand.

The "pumped storage" curve seems to correlate ?

(I'm on the Nordic side of the divide and my frequency logging does not look
out of the ordinary.)

Hi, it is probably a data collection issue imho. I downloaded the data from gridwatch and compared the frequency with my own collection. Be aware that the UK frequency is not the same as the ENTSO-E frequency. My data is from ENTSO-E. See enclosed graphics. Upper part is the demand in the UK, Mo 8pm to Tue 8am in blue, Tue 8pm to Wed 8am in orange. You see the high demand changes in the relevant time interval. This is albeit not reflected in the frequency in the UK, see lower part. But: The frequency changes in the UK in the first half of the night Tue-Wed are a lot higher (std 0.0851 Hz) than in the second half ( std 0.0633 ) or in the entire night Mo-Tue (0.0601 Hz). Maybe this is an indication that they where fighting something last night that they did not fight the night before and this resulted in the demand peaks. Maybe there was a production peak due to a North-Sea storm. They had to get rid of the power and started all their pumped storage power stations, which led to the peak. But this is only my guess. I have no idea about the number of UK pumped storage power stations or how to get North-Sea wind data. Another interesting detail: During nighttime the ENTSO-E frequency seems to follow a plan. The frequency is similar during the two nights. That is not true for the UK freq. . Cheers Detlef Am 13.12.2022 um 14:28 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp via time-nuts: > -------- > Dr. David Kirkby via time-nuts writes: > >> Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if >> anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one >> would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand. > The "pumped storage" curve seems to correlate ? > > (I'm on the Nordic side of the divide and my frequency logging does not look > out of the ordinary.) >

CB

Carsten Bormann

Wed, Dec 14, 2022 1:08 PM

On 2022-12-13, at 12:47, Dr. David Kirkby via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if
anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one
would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand.

Great Britain (sic) is its own region 0, so the frequency in (continental?) Europe 1 is unrelated.

You can find continental Europe mains frequency events for instance on 2 and 3.

Grüße, Carsten

On 2022-12-13, at 12:47, Dr. David Kirkby via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Some thought it might be a data collection issue with the site. I wonder if > anyone who monitors the mains frequency saw any significant changes, as one > would expect if there were suddenly large jumps in demand. Great Britain (sic) is its own region [0], so the frequency in (continental?) Europe [1] is unrelated. You can find continental Europe mains frequency events for instance on [2] and [3]. Grüße, Carsten [0]: https://pc-projekte.lima-city.de/ucte-stromnetz.html [1]: https://docstore.entsoe.eu/about-entso-e/system-operations/regional-groups/continental-europe/Pages/default.aspx [2]: https://twitter.com/_rg_ce?lang=en [3]: https://pc-projekte.lima-city.de/informationen-zum-email-versand.html

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Mains frequency in Europe last night