Something I've not seen mentioned is that particle board, in addition to bending, can creep over time, so a shelf of equipment may be straight on day one, but sag significantly months or years later. Not all particle board is the same, some creeps more than others. -John =========== > Hi > > One thing to be very careful of using doors - the core may not be what you > expect it to be. Solid wood may be just that, solid wood pieces laminated > together. Think of it as a pice of butcher block countertop. It can also > be shredded wood glued together. Think of it as a thick piece of particle > board. The first sort of construction is quite strong. The second not so > much so .... > > Bob > > > On Jan 24, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Thomas A. Frank wrote: > >> Even cheaper and less work than plywood - solid wood doors from Home >> Depot, laid across a rectangle using 2x4 as horizontals with 4x4 as >> legs. >> >> It you use lag bolts (and you should, as nails work loose over time), >> you can take the things apart when you move. >> >> My buddy has a few that all his milling machine parts sit on, and they >> haven't sagged. >> >> Ask if they have any scratch and dent doors for really cheap. >> >> Tom Frank, KA2CDK >> >> On Jan 24, 2010, at 10:03 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> If you are looking for massive tables on the cheap, you can indeed >>> build them. Have the local Home Depot rip some plywood to an >>> appropriate width and glue four sheets one on top of the other. 2x4's >>> or 4x4's make fine legs and support structure under the table top. I >>> have 16 feet of it sitting in the basement. No test gear on it at all. >>> Other hobbies seem to have taken over the entire space... >>> >>> The only real drawback is that it's a build in place item. You aren't >>> going to take it with you when you move. There are various versions of >>> that table scattered all over the US. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> On Jan 23, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Mike Feher wrote: >>> >>>> I also had similar problems with my 8 ft tables for my test equipment. >>>> I >>>> found at Home Depot replacement fold down legs. I bought some, and >>>> installed >>>> them right in the middle of the tables. No more sagging problems. I >>>> had to >>>> shorten the legs somewhat as they were a few inches too long. But, >>>> have >>>> supported hundreds of ponds for many years now with no sigh of >>>> warping/sagging. 73 - Mike >>>> >>>> Mike B. Feher, N4FS >>>> 89 Arnold Blvd. >>>> Howell, NJ, 07731 >>>> 732-886-5960 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of John Miles >>>> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:38 PM >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment >>>> >>>>> Another important aspect of the electronic test bench is the >>>>> furniture. >>>>> >>>>> I started with the cheapie particle board "fold up legged" tables and >>>>> very soon >>>>> learned they could not hold much weight without significant sagging. >>>> >>>> If you have the space, you could do what I do, and bolt multiple >>>> folding >>>> tables together with 'L'- and 'T'-shaped flat metal brackets. The >>>> idea, >>>> besides adding surface area, is to dampen the tables' tendency to >>>> wobble. >>>> This adds a surprising amount of stability and load-bearing capacity. >>>> It >>>> completely eliminates the need to add a center leg, which is otherwise >>>> pretty much mandatory when using folding tables. >>>> >>>> With cheap folding tables, you don't have to feel bad about drilling >>>> into >>>> your workbench or otherwise marring and gouging it. Every few years, >>>> or >>>> when you move, just throw the old folding table away and spend $39.95 >>>> on >>>> another one. Voila, a brand new workbench. >>>> >>>>> Many industrial equipment catalogs will give you an idea of the >>>>> accessories possible. >>>>> Shelves, drawers, electrical outlet strips.etc. >>>>> >>>>> An effective infrastructure will allow the test bench to gradually >>>>> grow, >>>>> as the budget allows. >>>> >>>> Also, HP/Agilent equipment racks are sometimes available on eBay. >>>> These are >>>> nothing like the relay racks or server racks that you commonly see in >>>> data >>>> centers. They are *stout*. They're very expensive when new, but >>>> almost >>>> free for the shipping when bought used. I used generic shelving units >>>> to >>>> hold test equipment for a long time, but once you use real racks, you >>>> won't >>>> go back. >>>> >>>> An Agilent E3662A/B rack can hold up to 81 EIA units of gear weighing >>>> up to >>>> 1800 pounds. I have three in my living room and wish I had more... >>>> >>>> -- john, KE5FX >>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

Hi, I'm late to this thread. On using doors as work benches, consider using lightweight panel doors instead of solid. They are two skins joined by a fibreboard honeycomb. Very light and stiff, just like the honeycomb construction used in aircraft. The one drawback is they can be punctured if you put a heavy bit of kit down corner first. This can be prevented by a top skin of 1.8" (3mm) ply. Fire rated ones have thicker skins but are heavy. I got some quality ones with damage to one side for a couple of pounds each. Lasted 18 years untill I sold the place.   Robert G8RPI. --- On Sun, 24/1/10, J. Forster <jfor@quik.com> wrote: From: J. Forster <jfor@quik.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment Tables To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Date: Sunday, 24 January, 2010, 18:41 Something I've not seen mentioned is that particle board, in addition to bending, can creep over time, so a shelf of equipment may be straight on day one, but sag significantly months or years later. Not all particle board is the same, some creeps more than others. -John =========== > Hi > > One thing to be very careful of using doors - the core may not be what you > expect it to be. Solid wood may be just that, solid wood pieces laminated > together. Think of it as a pice of butcher block countertop. It can also > be shredded wood glued together. Think of it as  a thick piece of particle > board. The first sort of construction is quite strong. The second not so > much so .... > > Bob > > > On Jan 24, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Thomas A. Frank wrote: > >> Even cheaper and less work than plywood - solid wood doors from Home >> Depot, laid across a rectangle using 2x4 as horizontals with 4x4 as >> legs. >> >> It you use lag bolts (and you should, as nails work loose over time), >> you can take the things apart when you move. >> >> My buddy has a few that all his milling machine parts sit on, and they >> haven't sagged. >> >> Ask if they have any scratch and dent doors for really cheap. >> >> Tom Frank, KA2CDK >> >> On Jan 24, 2010, at 10:03 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> If you are looking for massive tables on the cheap, you can indeed >>> build them. Have the local Home Depot rip some plywood to an >>> appropriate width and glue four sheets one on top of the other. 2x4's >>> or 4x4's make fine legs and support structure under the table top. I >>> have 16 feet of it sitting in the basement. No test gear on it at all. >>> Other hobbies seem to have taken over the entire space... >>> >>> The only real drawback is that it's a build in place item. You aren't >>> going to take it with you when you move. There are various versions of >>> that table scattered all over the US. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> On Jan 23, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Mike Feher wrote: >>> >>>> I also had similar problems with my 8 ft tables for my test equipment. >>>> I >>>> found at Home Depot replacement fold down legs. I bought some, and >>>> installed >>>> them right in the middle of the tables. No more sagging problems. I >>>> had to >>>> shorten the legs somewhat as they were a few inches too long. But, >>>> have >>>> supported hundreds of ponds for many years now with no sigh of >>>> warping/sagging. 73 - Mike >>>> >>>> Mike B. Feher, N4FS >>>> 89 Arnold Blvd. >>>> Howell, NJ, 07731 >>>> 732-886-5960 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of John Miles >>>> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:38 PM >>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment >>>> >>>>> Another important aspect of the electronic test bench is the >>>>> furniture. >>>>> >>>>> I started with the cheapie particle board "fold up legged" tables and >>>>> very soon >>>>> learned they could not hold much weight without significant sagging. >>>> >>>> If you have the space, you could do what I do, and bolt multiple >>>> folding >>>> tables together with 'L'- and 'T'-shaped flat metal brackets.  The >>>> idea, >>>> besides adding surface area, is to dampen the tables' tendency to >>>> wobble. >>>> This adds a surprising amount of stability and load-bearing capacity. >>>> It >>>> completely eliminates the need to add a center leg, which is otherwise >>>> pretty much mandatory when using folding tables. >>>> >>>> With cheap folding tables, you don't have to feel bad about drilling >>>> into >>>> your workbench or otherwise marring and gouging it.  Every few years, >>>> or >>>> when you move, just throw the old folding table away and spend $39.95 >>>> on >>>> another one.  Voila, a brand new workbench. >>>> >>>>> Many industrial equipment catalogs will give you an idea of the >>>>> accessories possible. >>>>> Shelves, drawers, electrical outlet strips.etc. >>>>> >>>>> An effective infrastructure will allow the test bench to gradually >>>>> grow, >>>>> as the budget allows. >>>> >>>> Also, HP/Agilent equipment racks are sometimes available on eBay. >>>> These are >>>> nothing like the relay racks or server racks that you commonly see in >>>> data >>>> centers.  They are *stout*.  They're very expensive when new, but >>>> almost >>>> free for the shipping when bought used.  I used generic shelving units >>>> to >>>> hold test equipment for a long time, but once you use real racks, you >>>> won't >>>> go back. >>>> >>>> An Agilent E3662A/B rack can hold up to 81 EIA units of gear weighing >>>> up to >>>> 1800 pounds.  I have three in my living room and wish I had more... >>>> >>>> -- john, KE5FX >>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

You can make a lighter, stronger, more rigid tabletop using torsion box construction. Use 1/2 plywood for the top and bottom. Use 1x1 strips of a hardwood such as poplar to crate a lattice spaced at 6 inch intervals in between, glued along the lengths of the lattice. I use brads during construction to ensure the lattice stays in place while the glue cures, but the structural strength comes from proper glue bonds along the lattice. Ralph On Jan 24, 2010, at 10:03 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > If you are looking for massive tables on the cheap, you can indeed build them. Have the local Home Depot rip some plywood to an appropriate width and glue four sheets one on top of the other. 2x4's or 4x4's make fine legs and support structure under the table top. I have 16 feet of it sitting in the basement. No test gear on it at all. Other hobbies seem to have taken over the entire space... > > The only real drawback is that it's a build in place item. You aren't going to take it with you when you move. There are various versions of that table scattered all over the US. > > Bob > > > On Jan 23, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Mike Feher wrote: > >> I also had similar problems with my 8 ft tables for my test equipment. I >> found at Home Depot replacement fold down legs. I bought some, and installed >> them right in the middle of the tables. No more sagging problems. I had to >> shorten the legs somewhat as they were a few inches too long. But, have >> supported hundreds of ponds for many years now with no sigh of >> warping/sagging. 73 - Mike >> >> Mike B. Feher, N4FS >> 89 Arnold Blvd. >> Howell, NJ, 07731 >> 732-886-5960 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On >> Behalf Of John Miles >> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:38 PM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment >> >>> Another important aspect of the electronic test bench is the furniture. >>> >>> I started with the cheapie particle board "fold up legged" tables and >>> very soon >>> learned they could not hold much weight without significant sagging. >> >> If you have the space, you could do what I do, and bolt multiple folding >> tables together with 'L'- and 'T'-shaped flat metal brackets. The idea, >> besides adding surface area, is to dampen the tables' tendency to wobble. >> This adds a surprising amount of stability and load-bearing capacity. It >> completely eliminates the need to add a center leg, which is otherwise >> pretty much mandatory when using folding tables. >> >> With cheap folding tables, you don't have to feel bad about drilling into >> your workbench or otherwise marring and gouging it. Every few years, or >> when you move, just throw the old folding table away and spend $39.95 on >> another one. Voila, a brand new workbench. >> >>> Many industrial equipment catalogs will give you an idea of the >>> accessories possible. >>> Shelves, drawers, electrical outlet strips.etc. >>> >>> An effective infrastructure will allow the test bench to gradually grow, >>> as the budget allows. >> >> Also, HP/Agilent equipment racks are sometimes available on eBay. These are >> nothing like the relay racks or server racks that you commonly see in data >> centers. They are *stout*. They're very expensive when new, but almost >> free for the shipping when bought used. I used generic shelving units to >> hold test equipment for a long time, but once you use real racks, you won't >> go back. >> >> An Agilent E3662A/B rack can hold up to 81 EIA units of gear weighing up to >> 1800 pounds. I have three in my living room and wish I had more... >> >> -- john, KE5FX >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Late to the party, I know, but I'd like to put in another recommendation for the DG8SAQ VNA. It's cheap, accurate, and best of all -- SMALL! It occupies 4"x3"x2" and so doesn't take up a whole desk. If 1.3GHz is enough for you, that might be the way to go. You get about 90dB of dynamic range. You can export the data easily since the signal processing is done by the host PC. And the software contains an integrated math engine that lets you do reasonably complicated signal processing in custom traces, something I used to do by exporting data and plotting in Matlab. Nick ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:44:53 -0500 > From: john.foege@gmail.com > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment > > Thanks to everyone who answered in this thread.I am keenly interested > in everything everyone had to say! > > One of the things that seems like a no-brainer, would be to scrape > together the $700 and get an Agilent E8285A CDMA test set. It seems > like I can't go wrong with that! My only concern with getting these > off eBay or from anywhere else for that matter, is that apparently the > later versions firmware only support 800Mhz and up operation instead > of the earlier versions 100kHz-1Ghz. > > Unfortunately, Amtronix seems to have run out, or at least are on > their last 1-2 units. I wont have the cash in time to get one, as they > have sold 35 in the last month alone. > > Sigh. > > Another very cool set of toys that had been mentioned, were the Tek > TM500 series, which I am also interested in! I don't need any of the > freq. counter plugins, but the power supply, func. generators, etc. > All very cool! > > Thanks, > > John > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Magnus Danielson > wrote: >> Bob Camp wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> About 8 years ago a whole lot of companies dumped a whole lot of test >>> gear. Prices dropped rapidly as they did so. It's taken us all quite a while >>> to burn through that pile of stuff. >>> The amazing thing is that as bad as the economy is now, you don't see >>> people doing the same sort of thing. You see oceans of people out of work, >>> but not piles of test gear getting sold off. >> >> Well, when the .com bubble bursted, it had been preceeded by massive >> acceleration of an instrument-hungry industry. As the bubble bursted, both >> .com companies and otherwise stable companies accelerated by their customers >> suffered. Some folded in and some just barely survived. >> >> This time it was the economy folks that fluked it. Instrument hungry >> industry only suffers indirectly. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/

sounds like you are off to a good start. the 5345A is a great counter other then size and the fan, check the Yahoo Tektronix group for changing all the nasty caps in the 2465, they have a habit of failing and destroying the circuit board. I believe someone even has the parts list of what to replace. As to a signal source the two biggies are noise and upper freq, for the SA if you want higher the 2-3 Ghz it is going to cost a lot, lot more. Mine is based on the HP 70000/MMS and for now I'm happy with the 2.9 Ghz front end. .. join the Yahoo Tek and HP groups and have fun ! -pete On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:35 AM, John Foege <john.foege@gmail.com> wrote: > I realize that this e-mail is somewhat off topic, however, I also > believe that I will get some of the best answers from the members of > this list: > > I have recently started to build an electronics lab, and am currently > trying to acquire test and general equipment for my little basement > workshop of horrors. So far, being on a limited budget, I have > acquired a Tek 2465A in good working order, a Fluke 1953A counter, and > my little gem (ok not quite so little) HP5345A with the 4-ghz freq > converter plugin w/ opt 11 & 12. > > I'd just like to ask everyone what they would be, if they were in my > shoes, attempting to acquire. Unforunately, however, I am just out of > engineering school and not working with much of a budget here. I'd > kill to have all the fancy gear some of you nuts have. > > I'd really love a DSO instead of the Tek 2465A I have. I'd kill for a > good spectrum analyzer or VNA etc. > > Any suggestions on what I should acquire and/or suggestions for > economical equipment that I should make that is a must have? I am a > good DIYer when it comes to building equipment, so often I attempt to > build that which I cannot afford. > > I appreciate everyone's' opinions in advance. Thank you. > > Sincerely, > > John Foege > KB1FSX > starving-engineer! > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >