Thanks for the opening Jeffery: Last week when I had a Cummins mechanic on board trying to solve several problems, he was quite stern about the fact that I shouldn't be using 2 micron filters. My response was "please tell me why". "Tell me somethig other than because the manufacturer says so". His reply was that the fuel lift pump doesn't handle the increased resistance well. The lift pump pushes much, much, better than it pulls, and it is pulling on the primaries and pushing on the secondaries. We never did discuss the possibility of moving the lift pump to in front of the primaries, but he did say that because my engine was so small (150 hp), the pump could probably handy 10 microns, although 30 was the correct number. Now this may have come up in previous discussions here, but it was the first time that I recall hearing it. Maybe I should say it was the first time it registered. Phil de l'Etoile West Sacramento, CA -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Siegel <jeff@activecaptain.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 18:54 To: 'Gregory Han' <hangreg@gmail.com>; trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com Subject: Re: T&T: Anchors- Anchoring > I guess its a sign of winter with everyone stuck ashore > Time to beat the subject of anchors to death again. > It's just a matter of time before a multi-week discussion of 2 micron versus 10 and 30 micron fuel filters comes around again. It's been a good 10 months since the last one. ================================== Jeffrey Siegel M/V aCappella DeFever 53PH W1ACA/WDB4350 Castine, Maine

Phil. How long have you had your engine? Have you had any fuel problems that otherwise might be explained by fuel starvation? If you can run at WOT at the correct rpm for a while without any problems, and you can run your "unloaded at the dock test" also without any problems, then while on theory, he may be right, I think you can be comfortable with the setup you have because it is working for you. The 30 vs 10 vs 2 micron argument has been hashed on this list many times. My personal opinion, mind you, very personal, is that if what I have is working for me, than there are plenty of other things not working that need my attention... Lee On Dec 31, 2007, at 08:58 , Phil de l'Etoile wrote: Last week when I had a Cummins mechanic on board trying to solve several problems, he was quite stern about the fact that I shouldn't be using 2 micronfilters... His reply was that the fuel lift pump doesn't handle the increased resistance well. The lift pump pushes much, much, better than it pulls, and it is pulling on the primaries and pushing on the secondaries...

Hmm..this sounds like a red flag for me. When I bought my boat, the Perkins M-30's (3 cyl 29hp) fuel system had been plumbed with an electric pump in the line that the PO said was required because the engines lift pump would not continually run the engine. I noticed that the fuel return line was plumbed in to the Racor filter and assumed that that was the problem....backpressure. After removing the electric pump and installing correct return lines directly to the tanks, I still have a problem with the engine starting and running without sounding like fuel starvation or air in the lines. After a few starts, it levels out and seems to be fine as long as the idle is a little high. After reading this....I am using a 2 micron filter in the new Racor and he was too. The filter on the engine is 30mic. I am going to try replacing the filter in the Racor and see if it corrects my problem. Since I have no fuel leaks and all of my lines, valves, fuel tank pickup, filter and hoses are new...I think an air leak is not probable. I even replaced the fuel lift pump to no avail....oh well, I have an extra now. Fingers crossed, Bob Clinkenbeard 24' custom trailer trawler http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-aboardbobbinalong ----- Original Message ----- From: "LA Licata" <lalicata@alum.rpi.edu> To: "Phil de l'Etoile" <pdeli3@gmail.com> Cc: "TrawlerList TrawlerList" <trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 4:59 AM Subject: Re: T&T: 2 10 30 Micron Filters?? > Phil. > > How long have you had your engine? > > Have you had any fuel problems that otherwise might be explained by > fuel starvation? > > If you can run at WOT at the correct rpm for a while without any > problems, and you can run your "unloaded at the dock test" also > without any problems, then while on theory, he may be right, I think > you can be comfortable with the setup you have because it is working > for you. > > The 30 vs 10 vs 2 micron argument has been hashed on this list many > times. My personal opinion, mind you, very personal, is that if what > I have is working for me, than there are plenty of other things not > working that need my attention... > > Lee > > > > On Dec 31, 2007, at 08:58 , Phil de l'Etoile wrote: > Last week when I had a Cummins mechanic on board trying to solve > several problems, he was quite stern about the fact that I shouldn't > be using 2 micronfilters... His reply was that the fuel lift pump > doesn't handle the increased resistance well. The lift pump pushes > much, much, better than it pulls, and it is pulling on the primaries > and pushing on the secondaries... > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change > email address, etc) go to: > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/trawlers-and-trawlering > > Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

Phil, that's the same advice I received from Cummins over three years ago. I reported it here, and of course, had it torn to shreds by the self-appointed experts who know better. Bob Peterson "Lopaka Nane" 47' Lien Hwa CPMY San Francisco -----Original Message----- From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com [mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Phil de l'Etoile Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:59 PM To: jeff@activecaptain.com; trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com Subject: Re: T&T: 2 10 30 Micron Filters?? Thanks for the opening Jeffery: Last week when I had a Cummins mechanic on board trying to solve several problems, he was quite stern about the fact that I shouldn't be using 2 micron filters. My response was "please tell me why". "Tell me somethig other than because the manufacturer says so". His reply was that the fuel lift pump doesn't handle the increased resistance well. The lift pump pushes much, much, better than it pulls, and it is pulling on the primaries and pushing on the secondaries. We never did discuss the possibility of moving the lift pump to in front of the primaries, but he did say that because my engine was so small (150 hp), the pump could probably handy 10 microns, although 30 was the correct number. Now this may have come up in previous discussions here, but it was the first time that I recall hearing it. Maybe I should say it was the first time it registered. Phil de l'Etoile West Sacramento, CA

In the past I have advocated the use of 2 or 10 micron filters in the primary filters, IF the secondaries were difficult or nearly impossible to change while underway. That said, I am inclined to think that such filters are hard on some lift pumps and should not be used if practical. The primary filter is intended to remove water and to prevent large particles from damaging the lift pump or clogging the fuel line downstream of the filter. Mike _____________________________________ Capt. Mike Maurice Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)