Antique 5061A option 004
In a mad moment at the NEARFest flea this weekend I grabbed
a 5061A for $250. Poor thing was getting wet in the rain and needed
a home. Really really heavy to carry to the car, however...
It has a high performance option 004 CBT in it (late SN
3112A02887 dated 05/93). And a 10811-60109 OCXO. Option 3 whatever
that is, and H29 too. Seems to have a BNC marked C field...
Chassis SN is 2002A01710 but a number of the modules have late
series numbers such as 2740 for the synth, 2652 for the oven controller,
and 2448 for the AC amp..
The unit obviously came from the Naval Observatory (similar
to Paul Swed's I presume)... has a sticker on it.
Looks superficially as if it was upgraded various times -
wondering if anyone could suggest where a manual that would cover the
OCXO mod and others on into the 90s might be had (Artek ?)
I have yet to fire it up (gotta dig out a power cord I have
somewhere in the way back junque)... but FWIW (not much I am sure) I was
told it would lock "after a while".
I suppose it is time to see if it will pump down and have any
measurable beam current - I guess at least possible that a CBT that
young might still have a tiny bit of life left.
A question - I assume the OCXO is 10 MHz (I think all 10811s
are) and thus it obviously must be easily possible to provide a 10 MHz
output. Is there a point to attach a SMA to BNC for this ?
It is my first Cesium, now I guess I officially have the
disease, all those Rbs and GPSDOs being just prodromal syndromes...
I also grabbed a PRS10 at the flea (that was pretty cheap
at $50) and wonder where I might land a PBBT adapter for it cheap
too... I'd rather see if it works OK before investing in a new one
first... and that connector is a bear.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."
Boy am I glad I didn't go to either!
On Oct 15, 2012, at 17:30, "David I. Emery" die@dieconsulting.com wrote:
In a mad moment at the NEARFest flea this weekend I grabbed
a 5061A for $250. Poor thing was getting wet in the rain and needed
a home. Really really heavy to carry to the car, however...
It has a high performance option 004 CBT in it (late SN
3112A02887 dated 05/93). And a 10811-60109 OCXO. Option 3 whatever
that is, and H29 too. Seems to have a BNC marked C field...
Chassis SN is 2002A01710 but a number of the modules have late
series numbers such as 2740 for the synth, 2652 for the oven controller,
and 2448 for the AC amp..
The unit obviously came from the Naval Observatory (similar
to Paul Swed's I presume)... has a sticker on it.
Looks superficially as if it was upgraded various times -
wondering if anyone could suggest where a manual that would cover the
OCXO mod and others on into the 90s might be had (Artek ?)
I have yet to fire it up (gotta dig out a power cord I have
somewhere in the way back junque)... but FWIW (not much I am sure) I was
told it would lock "after a while".
I suppose it is time to see if it will pump down and have any
measurable beam current - I guess at least possible that a CBT that
young might still have a tiny bit of life left.
A question - I assume the OCXO is 10 MHz (I think all 10811s
are) and thus it obviously must be easily possible to provide a 10 MHz
output. Is there a point to attach a SMA to BNC for this ?
It is my first Cesium, now I guess I officially have the
disease, all those Rbs and GPSDOs being just prodromal syndromes...
I also grabbed a PRS10 at the flea (that was pretty cheap
at $50) and wonder where I might land a PBBT adapter for it cheap
too... I'd rather see if it works OK before investing in a new one
first... and that connector is a bear.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I am sure Paul Wheeler and Bill K will be glad to hear it has a good home
Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
lester@veenstras.com
US Postal Address:
5 Shrine Club Drive
HC84 Box 89C
Keyser WV 26726
GPS: 39.33675 N 78.9823527 W
Telephones:
Home: +1-304-289-6057
US cell +1-304-790-9192
Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504
This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the
intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to
the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is
prohibited.
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David I. Emery
Sent: 15 October 2012 17:30
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Antique 5061A option 004
In a mad moment at the NEARFest flea this weekend I grabbed
a 5061A for $250. Poor thing was getting wet in the rain and needed
a home. Really really heavy to carry to the car, however...
It has a high performance option 004 CBT in it (late SN
3112A02887 dated 05/93). And a 10811-60109 OCXO. Option 3 whatever
that is, and H29 too. Seems to have a BNC marked C field...
Chassis SN is 2002A01710 but a number of the modules have late
series numbers such as 2740 for the synth, 2652 for the oven controller,
and 2448 for the AC amp..
The unit obviously came from the Naval Observatory (similar
to Paul Swed's I presume)... has a sticker on it.
Looks superficially as if it was upgraded various times -
wondering if anyone could suggest where a manual that would cover the
OCXO mod and others on into the 90s might be had (Artek ?)
I have yet to fire it up (gotta dig out a power cord I have
somewhere in the way back junque)... but FWIW (not much I am sure) I was
told it would lock "after a while".
I suppose it is time to see if it will pump down and have any
measurable beam current - I guess at least possible that a CBT that
young might still have a tiny bit of life left.
A question - I assume the OCXO is 10 MHz (I think all 10811s
are) and thus it obviously must be easily possible to provide a 10 MHz
output. Is there a point to attach a SMA to BNC for this ?
It is my first Cesium, now I guess I officially have the
disease, all those Rbs and GPSDOs being just prodromal syndromes...
I also grabbed a PRS10 at the flea (that was pretty cheap
at $50) and wonder where I might land a PBBT adapter for it cheap
too... I'd rather see if it works OK before investing in a new one
first... and that connector is a bear.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass
02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole -
in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now
either."
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
David
Yes indeed I picked mine up for $125. Many hours of fun though the tube
really was bad. But sure learned a lot and as mentioned here on time nuts
actually have it working with a 5060 tube. John mentioned your location and
we are actually reasonably close. Like you I was at nearfest.
So before you fire it up perhaps we should talk. Part of the weight may be
the nicad pack and who knows what condition its in... Hope it did not vent.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Lester Veenstra Lester@veenstras.comwrote:
I am sure Paul Wheeler and Bill K will be glad to hear it has a good home
Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
lester@veenstras.com
US Postal Address:
5 Shrine Club Drive
HC84 Box 89C
Keyser WV 26726
GPS: 39.33675 N 78.9823527 W
Telephones:
Home: +1-304-289-6057
US cell +1-304-790-9192
Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504
This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the
intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to
the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is
prohibited.
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David I. Emery
Sent: 15 October 2012 17:30
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Antique 5061A option 004
In a mad moment at the NEARFest flea this weekend I grabbed
a 5061A for $250. Poor thing was getting wet in the rain and needed
a home. Really really heavy to carry to the car, however...
It has a high performance option 004 CBT in it (late SN
3112A02887 dated 05/93). And a 10811-60109 OCXO. Option 3 whatever
that is, and H29 too. Seems to have a BNC marked C field...
Chassis SN is 2002A01710 but a number of the modules have late
series numbers such as 2740 for the synth, 2652 for the oven controller,
and 2448 for the AC amp..
The unit obviously came from the Naval Observatory (similar
to Paul Swed's I presume)... has a sticker on it.
Looks superficially as if it was upgraded various times -
wondering if anyone could suggest where a manual that would cover the
OCXO mod and others on into the 90s might be had (Artek ?)
I have yet to fire it up (gotta dig out a power cord I have
somewhere in the way back junque)... but FWIW (not much I am sure) I was
told it would lock "after a while".
I suppose it is time to see if it will pump down and have any
measurable beam current - I guess at least possible that a CBT that
young might still have a tiny bit of life left.
A question - I assume the OCXO is 10 MHz (I think all 10811s
are) and thus it obviously must be easily possible to provide a 10 MHz
output. Is there a point to attach a SMA to BNC for this ?
It is my first Cesium, now I guess I officially have the
disease, all those Rbs and GPSDOs being just prodromal syndromes...
I also grabbed a PRS10 at the flea (that was pretty cheap
at $50) and wonder where I might land a PBBT adapter for it cheap
too... I'd rather see if it works OK before investing in a new one
first... and that connector is a bear.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass
02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole -
in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now
either."
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
David,
Congrats on the 5061A! Good price for a 'complete' unit. Now the only
question is 'will it function'. I have no experience with the PRS10.
I have 9 functioning 5061 variants and I will be happy to help you try to
get it up and operational as best I can. I am a relative 'neophyte'
compared to most on the list and there are many here with much more
experience with these 'beasts' than me.
Opt 004 is the high performance tube. Option 001 is the clock, option 002
is the battery back up, and option 003 is both option 001 and 002.
Convenient, huh?
There are at least a couple of options for manuals. Is it 'black face' or
'white face'?
The 'white faced' units had a 5 MHz OCXO (a 105 variant) and some of the
black faced units did as well. There is a later variant or conversion that
uses a 10811 with a divide by 2 circuit that gets it back to 5 MHz. The
5061B had the 10811 and brought 10 MHz out to the front panel and back
panel.
Look at Didier's site and also look at Tom Van Baak's www.leapsecond.com
site and it's 'Museum of Time and Frequency' for manuals. I have a number
of paper manuals that might add additional information specific for your
serial number but I have not looked at them specifically for this so far.
You are correct; it is a very 'addicting' activity. Be careful.
Good luck.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David I. Emery
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 4:30 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Antique 5061A option 004
In a mad moment at the NEARFest flea this weekend I grabbed
a 5061A for $250. Poor thing was getting wet in the rain and needed
a home. Really really heavy to carry to the car, however...
It has a high performance option 004 CBT in it (late SN
3112A02887 dated 05/93). And a 10811-60109 OCXO. Option 3 whatever
that is, and H29 too. Seems to have a BNC marked C field...
Chassis SN is 2002A01710 but a number of the modules have late
series numbers such as 2740 for the synth, 2652 for the oven controller,
and 2448 for the AC amp..
The unit obviously came from the Naval Observatory (similar
to Paul Swed's I presume)... has a sticker on it.
Looks superficially as if it was upgraded various times -
wondering if anyone could suggest where a manual that would cover the
OCXO mod and others on into the 90s might be had (Artek ?)
I have yet to fire it up (gotta dig out a power cord I have
somewhere in the way back junque)... but FWIW (not much I am sure) I was
told it would lock "after a while".
I suppose it is time to see if it will pump down and have any
measurable beam current - I guess at least possible that a CBT that
young might still have a tiny bit of life left.
A question - I assume the OCXO is 10 MHz (I think all 10811s
are) and thus it obviously must be easily possible to provide a 10 MHz
output. Is there a point to attach a SMA to BNC for this ?
It is my first Cesium, now I guess I officially have the
disease, all those Rbs and GPSDOs being just prodromal syndromes...
I also grabbed a PRS10 at the flea (that was pretty cheap
at $50) and wonder where I might land a PBBT adapter for it cheap
too... I'd rather see if it works OK before investing in a new one
first... and that connector is a bear.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass
02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole -
in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now
either."
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 06:15:15PM -0400, paul swed wrote:
David
Yes indeed I picked mine up for $125. Many hours of fun though the tube
really was bad. But sure learned a lot and as mentioned here on time nuts
actually have it working with a 5060 tube. John mentioned your location and
we are actually reasonably close. Like you I was at nearfest.
So before you fire it up perhaps we should talk. Part of the weight may be
the nicad pack and who knows what condition its in... Hope it did not vent.
I am about to look at the batteries. I think they likely are
still there from the weight. Those old nicads are less of a problem
than some new ones... I've got some old spook gear with those things in
it and while some were shorted none leaked badly.
As you may have learned John Forster ran into me as I was
carting the thing off... he offered to help move it on his motorized
wheel chair but I thought it too heavy and clumsy to try that - I'm not
very coordinated and of course since he had his diabetes problem he is
not agile either - might have made for a dicey situation. In the end a
good Samaritan helped with one handle before I got to the parking area
outside the fence...
I live right near the business center of Weston on Boston Post
Road... (west of the center). If you know the area you might have
noticed a house with some discreet satellite dishes in the back yard...
and antennas on the roof...
I'd be glad for advice before powering up, though I am eager to
see if it pumps down and beam I is reasonable. It does seem to have
some mods for setting the C field - a stereo 8MM phone jack on the front
panel with a little label marked "M" and of course the C field output on
the back panel. Neither appears original.
I did follow your adventures with yours, and of course on
another topic have been injecting my 0.02 into the discussions about
WWVB phase modulation on and off as well.
The current spec for that seems pretty rational to me at the
moment in fact... though I agree that with low signal levels and QRM and
QRN you will never be able to lock the signal reliably without some kind
of very low bandwidth PLL (eg a Costas loop).
It appears that one can predict many of the bits (and thus
phases), but not all of them - especially if they add various random
messages interspersed with the BPSK time info and given that one could
produce a de-PSK'd signal with a balanced mixer with some dropouts for
the early part of unknown-in-advance bits. Whether this would work OK
with antique receivers or not I don't know. Would seem just as easy to
do a Costas loop and simply feed the antiques the carrier recovered in
the Costas loop though of course that does introduce another source of
phase error and phase drift.
The one liability of a Costas loop approach is long fades. You
would need either to provide a squelch of some kind that would stop
phase tracking or lock it to some kind of local reference based on the
local standard during fades. The latter is quite possible, if you have
an accurate standard you are comparing with - all you need is to use
some digital processing (on a processor these days of course) to
synthesize a carrier in phase with WWVB and when the signal fades feed
that to the loop until the signal returns.
If real time time of day operation is not required, another
technique suggests itself... simply delaying the signal by one symbol
time (in this case 1 second) by digitally sampling it with an A/D at
some convenient rate (like 1 MHz) and stuffing the samples into a
circular buffer before outputting them via a D/A. During that bit time
it should be possible to correlate with a local digital generated 60 KHz
and determine the best estimate of the bit phase state. And when one
gets to the best estimate of the 1 second splice, one simply adjusts the
phase of the sample play out by multiplying the samples by 1 or -1
depending on which phase state seems to correlate best with the signal.
A slightly more sophisticated version of that would use the
known time code most of the time and just use the correlation when the
bit state was ambiguous due to the possibility of messages. That would
ensure that the 60 KHz phase in the reconstructed signal matched the 0
degree phase of the transmitted signal.
The 1 symbol time delay technique ought to be able to handle a
very very very long fade given a decently accurate digital time base
since it is not necessary that the local synthesized (numerically inside
the software I would expect) 60 KHz have any particular exact phase
relationship to the WWVB carrier... clearly one would want to correlate
in I and Q space (eg with the carrier and the carrier shifted 90
degrees) and make ones best guess where on the unit circle the 0 phase
carrier lies...
When one returned from a fade one would want to try to
re-estimate the phase relative to the local time base of the WWVB
carrier (by knowing what phase state most symbols were) - and clearly
one do this for a few bits before attempting to do any kind of
estimation of unknown bits.
But given a normal accuracy digital clock (very few ppm) once
one had acquired time of day lock and bit (symbol) timing it would be
tens of thousands of seconds before a despreader deBPSKing known bits
of the time code - all one second long - would be off enough to make
much difference for a narrow band loop tracking the signal - and this
could be reduced further by blanking the beginning and end of the bits
(the splice) so only the middles were actually output via the D/A at
full amplitude.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 09:28:59PM -0400, David I. Emery wrote:
I live right near the business center of Weston on Boston Post
Road... (west of the center). If you know the area you might have
noticed a house with some discreet satellite dishes in the back yard...
and antennas on the roof...
Sorry world, this was presumed to be directed at Paul,
not the list...
I should always check, I know, but sometimes get bit...
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."