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West Coast offshore winds

BA
bob Austin
Mon, Feb 25, 2008 6:30 PM

I agree with Peter.  We have made this run 3 times, and each time hugged the
beach.  Even in 1983 we had excellent weather fax reception, and had a good
understanding of the conditions which created these winds.  To top this off,
we were enroute to rescue another sailor who had lost his boat on this hostile
coast.  We ran the beach--staying at about the 10 fathom line, detouring out,
by the river mouth shoaling.  Even with 50 knot winds, it was a very pleasant
trip, once we got past Salina Cruz.  In this same trip, we had to stand at
least 50 miles off the upper Central America Coast because of hostilities and
revolutionaries and got slammed with 60 knots and some boat damage due to a
Papagayo.  On another trip, we hugged the coast and in the Gulf of Papagayo we
saw almost 90 knots of wind.  Again, being close to the coast, we were able to
anchor and avoid any damage due to waves.  Two hundred miles is not far enough
to avoid Tehauntepec winds.

Despite "better forcasting" I have seen forcasting to be wrong, especially
when you are dealing with relitative slow boats, such as a trawler, and a
fairly long run--and boats lost because they did not respect this area.  Even
the very best forcasters (as evidenced in the around the world races) are
occasionally wrong.  A NOAA web site describes the meterology:
http://daac.gsfc.nasa.gov/oceancolor/scifocus/oceanColor/papagayo.shtml  for
those who have not researched this potential hazard.

One delivary skipper (not on this forum) lost a 65 foot research vessel
because he got caught out about 100 miles, and a stabalizer fin was not
properly locked, and eventually self distructed and tore a hole in the hull.
He thought he had a clear window for the crossing.

Better to be safe--because 80 knots in a beam sea of 20 to 30 feet is not
something that one wants to experience in any size trawler.

Bob Austin

I agree with Peter. We have made this run 3 times, and each time hugged the beach. Even in 1983 we had excellent weather fax reception, and had a good understanding of the conditions which created these winds. To top this off, we were enroute to rescue another sailor who had lost his boat on this hostile coast. We ran the beach--staying at about the 10 fathom line, detouring out, by the river mouth shoaling. Even with 50 knot winds, it was a very pleasant trip, once we got past Salina Cruz. In this same trip, we had to stand at least 50 miles off the upper Central America Coast because of hostilities and revolutionaries and got slammed with 60 knots and some boat damage due to a Papagayo. On another trip, we hugged the coast and in the Gulf of Papagayo we saw almost 90 knots of wind. Again, being close to the coast, we were able to anchor and avoid any damage due to waves. Two hundred miles is not far enough to avoid Tehauntepec winds. Despite "better forcasting" I have seen forcasting to be wrong, especially when you are dealing with relitative slow boats, such as a trawler, and a fairly long run--and boats lost because they did not respect this area. Even the very best forcasters (as evidenced in the around the world races) are occasionally wrong. A NOAA web site describes the meterology: http://daac.gsfc.nasa.gov/oceancolor/scifocus/oceanColor/papagayo.shtml for those who have not researched this potential hazard. One delivary skipper (not on this forum) lost a 65 foot research vessel because he got caught out about 100 miles, and a stabalizer fin was not properly locked, and eventually self distructed and tore a hole in the hull. He thought he had a clear window for the crossing. Better to be safe--because 80 knots in a beam sea of 20 to 30 feet is not something that one wants to experience in any size trawler. Bob Austin
TJ
Tim Johnson
Mon, Feb 25, 2008 6:48 PM

In 2000, my wife, a crew member and I took the "short cut" across the
Gulf of Tehuantepec based on the prediction of eight foot seas with a
15 second period.  Winds were projected to be 15-20 knots.  Well, the
prediction was partially right.  We were one-third of the way across,
when the wind and seas kicked up. The seas were eight feet, alright,
but the period became four seconds and the winds became a steady 35-40
knots, gusting to 50.  We initially mistook the rough water ahead as a
school of spinner dolphin.  The change in weather was so abrupt it
appeared as if we had hit a wind shear.  At 2 am (it's always in the
middle of the night) we lost our stabilizers as a fitting had backed
out due to the stress on the system and dumped its oil all over the
engine room.  We changed course and "tacked" into the wind to Salina
Cruz, a 12 hour trip, where we made repairs.  I'll think twice before
taking the "short cut" again.

In 2000, my wife, a crew member and I took the "short cut" across the Gulf of Tehuantepec based on the prediction of eight foot seas with a 15 second period. Winds were projected to be 15-20 knots. Well, the prediction was partially right. We were one-third of the way across, when the wind and seas kicked up. The seas were eight feet, alright, but the period became four seconds and the winds became a steady 35-40 knots, gusting to 50. We initially mistook the rough water ahead as a school of spinner dolphin. The change in weather was so abrupt it appeared as if we had hit a wind shear. At 2 am (it's always in the middle of the night) we lost our stabilizers as a fitting had backed out due to the stress on the system and dumped its oil all over the engine room. We changed course and "tacked" into the wind to Salina Cruz, a 12 hour trip, where we made repairs. I'll think twice before taking the "short cut" again.
SE
Scott E. Bulger
Tue, Feb 26, 2008 1:42 PM

As I said in my original post:

I have nothing but respect for those of you that will never do anything
different based on your experience!  I'm sure it's born of real world
experience where the Tpeckers beat the heck out of you or a friend.  I also
think it's gotten much more predictable as the weather systems that cause
Tpeckers are better understood.

Today, sitting in the river estuary in El Salvador, there are 9 boats that
made the crossing in the last few days.  All 9 went straight across, not a
single boat stayed on the beach.  Things change, equipment evolves,
knowledge is shared.  Having 3 weather sources tell you a window for 7 days
exists, and your only exposed for 48 hours seems like manageable risk to me.
Would I do this in a Meridian or SeaRay?  No, I only did this because our
boat was a Nordhavn, and if the predictions hadn't held true I was willing
to either tough it out, run downwind or turn back.  The purpose in sharing
this information was to aid those in transit who are reading the Rains book
and only considering the historical practice of following the beach.  The
Harbormaster in Marina Chahue sealed the deal when he talked about the
fishermen in Salina Cruz.  He said these guys manage the Tpeck every day of
their lives to make a living.  The do it in pangas (22' open boats with
outboard motors) and run 10, 20, 60 miles out to sea.  I'm sure there are
countless stories of Tpeck disasters and each skipper will have to make his
or her own decision.  My point was there are more people choosing to wait
for a window then to go along the beach (which has it's own risks, such as
the 62' Nordhavn on the rocks near Turtle bay can attest to).

One more point, yesterday I talked to the two other skippers, one who stayed
inland in the hope of missing the long lines and one who went 60 miles
offshore to try to avoid them.  The skipper who went out 60 miles still
encountered long lines, but fewer than those of us in closer.  The skipper
who stayed very close actually got in a situation where they were boxed in
and had to cut one of the lines to get out.  If I were repeating the trip
I'd form a single file of boats 1/2mile apart and travel 30 miles out.

The facilities here at Barillas are wonderful and the staff couldn't be more
helpful!  They are very proud of their country.  Yesterday I spent 3 hours
with a technician from El Salvador modifying the existing WiFi network so
the boats in the estuary would get a signal and we were successful!  I'm
writing this from my pilothouse on a laptop with internal WiFi and no
booster!!!  Life is good!

Oh, when we arrived we were tied to a mooring buoy that was in close
proximity to another buoy.  I didn't realize how close it was until I shut
down the engine and started to look around the boat.  Quickly I realized it
was in a very bad position and I started the engine so I could move to
another mooring.  Sure enough, a wind blew from behind the boat, we moved
forward, the buoy passed over the stabilizer fin and then we backed down on
it.  The buoy became lodged between the fin and hull and we were pinned in
place.  I got on the radio and asked for the marina to provide a diver to
come and help free the mooring.  Before they got to the boat I decided to
try to free the mooring myself.  I used the bow and stern thruster to point
the boat directly into the river current, we were healed over about 3
degrees and sitting 45 degrees to the current because of the midship
attachment point of the fin.  As the boat got straightnend into the current
I powered forward and the buoy started to rise.  It then freed itself and we
cast the forward line off and I pulled forward around the two buoys.  It was
pretty stressful for a while, and if I had it to do over again I'm not sure
I would, but it all came out ok.  The marina is going to send a diver down
tomorrow to make sure the fin is ok.  I don't think it will be a problem as
the forces involved weren't abrupt or too extreme.  The visibility in the
river is really poor, otherwise I'd try to go in the water myself and look
at it.  Also, honestly, the crocks are a bit of a concern  : )

So, that's the update from El Salvador.  Tomorrow we go on the Monkey walk!
Take care,

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle
Currently at Barillas Marina, El Salvador
ter World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

As I said in my original post: I have nothing but respect for those of you that will never do anything different based on your experience! I'm sure it's born of real world experience where the Tpeckers beat the heck out of you or a friend. I also think it's gotten much more predictable as the weather systems that cause Tpeckers are better understood. Today, sitting in the river estuary in El Salvador, there are 9 boats that made the crossing in the last few days. All 9 went straight across, not a single boat stayed on the beach. Things change, equipment evolves, knowledge is shared. Having 3 weather sources tell you a window for 7 days exists, and your only exposed for 48 hours seems like manageable risk to me. Would I do this in a Meridian or SeaRay? No, I only did this because our boat was a Nordhavn, and if the predictions hadn't held true I was willing to either tough it out, run downwind or turn back. The purpose in sharing this information was to aid those in transit who are reading the Rains book and only considering the historical practice of following the beach. The Harbormaster in Marina Chahue sealed the deal when he talked about the fishermen in Salina Cruz. He said these guys manage the Tpeck every day of their lives to make a living. The do it in pangas (22' open boats with outboard motors) and run 10, 20, 60 miles out to sea. I'm sure there are countless stories of Tpeck disasters and each skipper will have to make his or her own decision. My point was there are more people choosing to wait for a window then to go along the beach (which has it's own risks, such as the 62' Nordhavn on the rocks near Turtle bay can attest to). One more point, yesterday I talked to the two other skippers, one who stayed inland in the hope of missing the long lines and one who went 60 miles offshore to try to avoid them. The skipper who went out 60 miles still encountered long lines, but fewer than those of us in closer. The skipper who stayed very close actually got in a situation where they were boxed in and had to cut one of the lines to get out. If I were repeating the trip I'd form a single file of boats 1/2mile apart and travel 30 miles out. The facilities here at Barillas are wonderful and the staff couldn't be more helpful! They are very proud of their country. Yesterday I spent 3 hours with a technician from El Salvador modifying the existing WiFi network so the boats in the estuary would get a signal and we were successful! I'm writing this from my pilothouse on a laptop with internal WiFi and no booster!!! Life is good! Oh, when we arrived we were tied to a mooring buoy that was in close proximity to another buoy. I didn't realize how close it was until I shut down the engine and started to look around the boat. Quickly I realized it was in a very bad position and I started the engine so I could move to another mooring. Sure enough, a wind blew from behind the boat, we moved forward, the buoy passed over the stabilizer fin and then we backed down on it. The buoy became lodged between the fin and hull and we were pinned in place. I got on the radio and asked for the marina to provide a diver to come and help free the mooring. Before they got to the boat I decided to try to free the mooring myself. I used the bow and stern thruster to point the boat directly into the river current, we were healed over about 3 degrees and sitting 45 degrees to the current because of the midship attachment point of the fin. As the boat got straightnend into the current I powered forward and the buoy started to rise. It then freed itself and we cast the forward line off and I pulled forward around the two buoys. It was pretty stressful for a while, and if I had it to do over again I'm not sure I would, but it all came out ok. The marina is going to send a diver down tomorrow to make sure the fin is ok. I don't think it will be a problem as the forces involved weren't abrupt or too extreme. The visibility in the river is really poor, otherwise I'd try to go in the water myself and look at it. Also, honestly, the crocks are a bit of a concern : ) So, that's the update from El Salvador. Tomorrow we go on the Monkey walk! Take care, Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle Currently at Barillas Marina, El Salvador ter World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
JM
John Marshall
Tue, Feb 26, 2008 3:30 PM

Scott raises a good point about lines tangling in stabilizers. Some
boats, mine included, have a triangular piece of metal about six
inches wide that guards the gap between the stabilizer fin and the
hull, the idea being to ensure that a line can't get in there.

In the experience of those on this list, do those really work, at
least when the the fin is centered?

So far I've managed to avoid snagging crab pot lines in the PNW with
my stabilizers, but I'm wondering if that's just good luck.

John Marshall
Serendipity - N55-20

On Feb 26, 2008, at 5:42 AM, Scott E. Bulger wrote:

As I said in my original post:

I have nothing but respect for those of you that will never do
anything
different based on your experience!  I'm sure it's born of real world
experience where the Tpeckers beat the heck out of you or a friend.
I also
think it's gotten much more predictable as the weather systems that
cause
Tpeckers are better understood.

Today, sitting in the river estuary in El Salvador, there are 9
boats that
made the crossing in the last few days.  All 9 went straight across,
not a
single boat stayed on the beach.  Things change, equipment evolves,
knowledge is shared.  Having 3 weather sources tell you a window for
7 days
exists, and your only exposed for 48 hours seems like manageable
risk to me.
Would I do this in a Meridian or SeaRay?  No, I only did this
because our
boat was a Nordhavn, and if the predictions hadn't held true I was
willing
to either tough it out, run downwind or turn back.  The purpose in
sharing
this information was to aid those in transit who are reading the
Rains book
and only considering the historical practice of following the
beach.  The
Harbormaster in Marina Chahue sealed the deal when he talked about the
fishermen in Salina Cruz.  He said these guys manage the Tpeck every
day of
their lives to make a living.  The do it in pangas (22' open boats
with
outboard motors) and run 10, 20, 60 miles out to sea.  I'm sure
there are
countless stories of Tpeck disasters and each skipper will have to
make his
or her own decision.  My point was there are more people choosing to
wait
for a window then to go along the beach (which has it's own risks,
such as
the 62' Nordhavn on the rocks near Turtle bay can attest to).

One more point, yesterday I talked to the two other skippers, one
who stayed
inland in the hope of missing the long lines and one who went 60 miles
offshore to try to avoid them.  The skipper who went out 60 miles
still
encountered long lines, but fewer than those of us in closer.  The
skipper
who stayed very close actually got in a situation where they were
boxed in
and had to cut one of the lines to get out.  If I were repeating the
trip
I'd form a single file of boats 1/2mile apart and travel 30 miles out.

The facilities here at Barillas are wonderful and the staff couldn't
be more
helpful!  They are very proud of their country.  Yesterday I spent 3
hours
with a technician from El Salvador modifying the existing WiFi
network so
the boats in the estuary would get a signal and we were successful!
I'm
writing this from my pilothouse on a laptop with internal WiFi and no
booster!!!  Life is good!

Oh, when we arrived we were tied to a mooring buoy that was in close
proximity to another buoy.  I didn't realize how close it was until
I shut
down the engine and started to look around the boat.  Quickly I
realized it
was in a very bad position and I started the engine so I could move to
another mooring.  Sure enough, a wind blew from behind the boat, we
moved
forward, the buoy passed over the stabilizer fin and then we backed
down on
it.  The buoy became lodged between the fin and hull and we were
pinned in
place.  I got on the radio and asked for the marina to provide a
diver to
come and help free the mooring.  Before they got to the boat I
decided to
try to free the mooring myself.  I used the bow and stern thruster
to point
the boat directly into the river current, we were healed over about 3
degrees and sitting 45 degrees to the current because of the midship
attachment point of the fin.  As the boat got straightnend into the
current
I powered forward and the buoy started to rise.  It then freed
itself and we
cast the forward line off and I pulled forward around the two
buoys.  It was
pretty stressful for a while, and if I had it to do over again I'm
not sure
I would, but it all came out ok.  The marina is going to send a
diver down
tomorrow to make sure the fin is ok.  I don't think it will be a
problem as
the forces involved weren't abrupt or too extreme.  The visibility
in the
river is really poor, otherwise I'd try to go in the water myself
and look
at it.  Also, honestly, the crocks are a bit of a concern  : )

So, that's the update from El Salvador.  Tomorrow we go on the
Monkey walk!
Take care,

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle
Currently at Barillas Marina, El Salvador
ter World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.


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Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

Scott raises a good point about lines tangling in stabilizers. Some boats, mine included, have a triangular piece of metal about six inches wide that guards the gap between the stabilizer fin and the hull, the idea being to ensure that a line can't get in there. In the experience of those on this list, do those really work, at least when the the fin is centered? So far I've managed to avoid snagging crab pot lines in the PNW with my stabilizers, but I'm wondering if that's just good luck. John Marshall Serendipity - N55-20 On Feb 26, 2008, at 5:42 AM, Scott E. Bulger wrote: > As I said in my original post: > > I have nothing but respect for those of you that will never do > anything > different based on your experience! I'm sure it's born of real world > experience where the Tpeckers beat the heck out of you or a friend. > I also > think it's gotten much more predictable as the weather systems that > cause > Tpeckers are better understood. > > Today, sitting in the river estuary in El Salvador, there are 9 > boats that > made the crossing in the last few days. All 9 went straight across, > not a > single boat stayed on the beach. Things change, equipment evolves, > knowledge is shared. Having 3 weather sources tell you a window for > 7 days > exists, and your only exposed for 48 hours seems like manageable > risk to me. > Would I do this in a Meridian or SeaRay? No, I only did this > because our > boat was a Nordhavn, and if the predictions hadn't held true I was > willing > to either tough it out, run downwind or turn back. The purpose in > sharing > this information was to aid those in transit who are reading the > Rains book > and only considering the historical practice of following the > beach. The > Harbormaster in Marina Chahue sealed the deal when he talked about the > fishermen in Salina Cruz. He said these guys manage the Tpeck every > day of > their lives to make a living. The do it in pangas (22' open boats > with > outboard motors) and run 10, 20, 60 miles out to sea. I'm sure > there are > countless stories of Tpeck disasters and each skipper will have to > make his > or her own decision. My point was there are more people choosing to > wait > for a window then to go along the beach (which has it's own risks, > such as > the 62' Nordhavn on the rocks near Turtle bay can attest to). > > One more point, yesterday I talked to the two other skippers, one > who stayed > inland in the hope of missing the long lines and one who went 60 miles > offshore to try to avoid them. The skipper who went out 60 miles > still > encountered long lines, but fewer than those of us in closer. The > skipper > who stayed very close actually got in a situation where they were > boxed in > and had to cut one of the lines to get out. If I were repeating the > trip > I'd form a single file of boats 1/2mile apart and travel 30 miles out. > > The facilities here at Barillas are wonderful and the staff couldn't > be more > helpful! They are very proud of their country. Yesterday I spent 3 > hours > with a technician from El Salvador modifying the existing WiFi > network so > the boats in the estuary would get a signal and we were successful! > I'm > writing this from my pilothouse on a laptop with internal WiFi and no > booster!!! Life is good! > > Oh, when we arrived we were tied to a mooring buoy that was in close > proximity to another buoy. I didn't realize how close it was until > I shut > down the engine and started to look around the boat. Quickly I > realized it > was in a very bad position and I started the engine so I could move to > another mooring. Sure enough, a wind blew from behind the boat, we > moved > forward, the buoy passed over the stabilizer fin and then we backed > down on > it. The buoy became lodged between the fin and hull and we were > pinned in > place. I got on the radio and asked for the marina to provide a > diver to > come and help free the mooring. Before they got to the boat I > decided to > try to free the mooring myself. I used the bow and stern thruster > to point > the boat directly into the river current, we were healed over about 3 > degrees and sitting 45 degrees to the current because of the midship > attachment point of the fin. As the boat got straightnend into the > current > I powered forward and the buoy started to rise. It then freed > itself and we > cast the forward line off and I pulled forward around the two > buoys. It was > pretty stressful for a while, and if I had it to do over again I'm > not sure > I would, but it all came out ok. The marina is going to send a > diver down > tomorrow to make sure the fin is ok. I don't think it will be a > problem as > the forces involved weren't abrupt or too extreme. The visibility > in the > river is really poor, otherwise I'd try to go in the water myself > and look > at it. Also, honestly, the crocks are a bit of a concern : ) > > So, that's the update from El Salvador. Tomorrow we go on the > Monkey walk! > Take care, > > Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle > Currently at Barillas Marina, El Salvador > ter World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions. > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.