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Navigation with a laptop or a desk top

AJ
A Jensen
Tue, Aug 10, 2004 6:43 AM

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Siegel

While it's true that you are less apt to have repeatable problems on
dedicated hardware, you pay for that with fewer features and capabilities.
Computer software...just like boating...is always a tradeoff.  Taking a
laptop with so many application capabilities and limiting it to just one
navigation program is throwing away so many of the advantages on the PC
side.

REPLY
For a power user like yourself that argument is valid.
But what about the countless others who never go beyond having the little
boat icon crawl across the raster display?

I have seen several market surveys that indicate many if not the majority of
consumer seldom use more than about 10% of the total feature set of the
major navigation software packages.

Even the argument about updating the charts themselves has holes in it.
Not every chart on a CD or chip set changes from year to year.
And of those changes which might affect your particular area, how many are
significant to your particular boating?

When the commercial ship channel markers are realigned to ensure safe
passage for a vessel drawing 35 or 40 feet, does it necessarily affect your
safety?

The majority of NTM concern artificial nav aids in commercial shipping
channels and in commercial harbors.
Recreational boaters tend to stay away from such places if they can help it.
Most secluded anchorages do not have a buoyed channel defining the entrance
way.
Shorelines and bottom contours seldom change that rapidly, except perhaps in
hurricane prone Florida and Gulf area.
But when they do, how long does it take for NOAA to resurvey and issue
corrected charts?

regards
Arild


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-----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Siegel While it's true that you are less apt to have repeatable problems on dedicated hardware, you pay for that with fewer features and capabilities. Computer software...just like boating...is always a tradeoff. Taking a laptop with so many application capabilities and limiting it to just one navigation program is throwing away so many of the advantages on the PC side. REPLY For a power user like yourself that argument is valid. But what about the countless others who never go beyond having the little boat icon crawl across the raster display? I have seen several market surveys that indicate many if not the majority of consumer seldom use more than about 10% of the total feature set of the major navigation software packages. Even the argument about updating the charts themselves has holes in it. Not every chart on a CD or chip set changes from year to year. And of those changes which might affect your particular area, how many are significant to your particular boating? When the commercial ship channel markers are realigned to ensure safe passage for a vessel drawing 35 or 40 feet, does it necessarily affect your safety? The majority of NTM concern artificial nav aids in commercial shipping channels and in commercial harbors. Recreational boaters tend to stay away from such places if they can help it. Most secluded anchorages do not have a buoyed channel defining the entrance way. Shorelines and bottom contours seldom change that rapidly, except perhaps in hurricane prone Florida and Gulf area. But when they do, how long does it take for NOAA to resurvey and issue corrected charts? regards Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
JS
Jeffrey Siegel
Tue, Aug 10, 2004 1:17 PM

For a power user like yourself that argument is valid.
But what about the countless others who never go beyond
having the little boat icon crawl across the raster display?

We agree more than we disagree.  You're right about chart updates - I wish
NOAA would make more frequent updates.  The reality is that most of the
rocks don't change.  I don't really care where many of the
aids-to-navigation are placed.  In fact, there is an argument to creating
routes away from them.  On a foggy day in Maine, you do not want to aim
buoy-to-buoy because that is what everyone else is doing!

I would disagree about laptop use on a boat though:

  • Web browsing is not a power-user activity

  • Web browsing means bringing in a multitude of software add-ons for many
    things (Adobe Acrobat, Quicktime, various ActiveX components, etc.)

  • Email is not a power-user activity

  • WiFi is quickly becoming a non-power-user activity;  tools like Network
    Stumbler (thanks Ron!) will become more and more common

  • Checking weather and even accessing weatherfax via an SSB connection is
    not a power-user activity

  • Looking at your digital photographs, backing up your PDA/cell phones, etc.
    are all non-power-user activities

It is a huge advantage to be able to do all of those things, and more, on
your single higher-end portable computer.

By the way, you're right about the 10% of features used on navigation
software.  Maptech tells me that only 20% of their customers ever use
routes.  It's hard for me to believe but they keep statistics on this type
of thing over many thousands of customer-contacts.  To date, there have been
no questions or problems with routes on Outdoor Navigator.  This either
means that I wrote it brilliantly...or only a few people are using it!

================
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53PH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine

> For a power user like yourself that argument is valid. > But what about the countless others who never go beyond > having the little boat icon crawl across the raster display? > We agree more than we disagree. You're right about chart updates - I wish NOAA would make more frequent updates. The reality is that most of the rocks don't change. I don't really care where many of the aids-to-navigation are placed. In fact, there is an argument to creating routes away from them. On a foggy day in Maine, you do not want to aim buoy-to-buoy because that is what everyone else is doing! I would disagree about laptop use on a boat though: - Web browsing is not a power-user activity - Web browsing means bringing in a multitude of software add-ons for many things (Adobe Acrobat, Quicktime, various ActiveX components, etc.) - Email is not a power-user activity - WiFi is quickly becoming a non-power-user activity; tools like Network Stumbler (thanks Ron!) will become more and more common - Checking weather and even accessing weatherfax via an SSB connection is not a power-user activity - Looking at your digital photographs, backing up your PDA/cell phones, etc. are all non-power-user activities It is a huge advantage to be able to do all of those things, and more, on your single higher-end portable computer. By the way, you're right about the 10% of features used on navigation software. Maptech tells me that only 20% of their customers ever use routes. It's hard for me to believe but they keep statistics on this type of thing over many thousands of customer-contacts. To date, there have been no questions or problems with routes on Outdoor Navigator. This either means that I wrote it brilliantly...or only a few people are using it! ================ Jeffrey Siegel M/V aCappella DeFever 53PH W1ACA/WDB4350 Castine, Maine
PJ
Philip J. Rosch
Tue, Aug 10, 2004 3:11 PM

I'd argue Neo-Luddites shouldn't be coerced into using computers.  If you
aren't comfortable using computers stick with the paper charts, dividers,
and sextants or you'll constantly be blaming everyone from Microsoft to
Intel for everything that doesn't seem to work right.

                                      Regards....

Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC
Currently moored in Nantucket Harbor, MA

I'd argue Neo-Luddites shouldn't be coerced into using computers. If you aren't comfortable using computers stick with the paper charts, dividers, and sextants or you'll constantly be blaming everyone from Microsoft to Intel for everything that doesn't seem to work right. Regards.... Phil Rosch Old Harbor Consulting M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC Currently moored in Nantucket Harbor, MA
AJ
A Jensen
Wed, Aug 11, 2004 6:31 AM

Phil Rosch wrote:
I'd argue Neo-Luddites shouldn't be coerced into using computers.  If you
aren't comfortable using computers stick with the paper charts, dividers,
and sextants or you'll constantly be blaming everyone from Microsoft to
Intel for everything that doesn't seem to work right.

REPLY

And then  ther are the non-luddites who simply want to re-enact olden times
for the sheer challenge of it.
I used to belong to such a group.
We used flint locks or( gasp ) modern percussion cap muzzle loaders.
Period costumes was de rigeur -  and  woe to anyone caught wearing polyester
or even a blend.
It was cotton or wool or skins - nothing else permitted.

It was all in good fun, just to see if we could measure up to the challenge.
And of course there are several instances of scandinavians building and
sailing Viking longships from Europe to Vinland and vice versa, not to
mention other arcane nautical re-enactments such as the Tall ships.

Guess navigating with paper chart and pencil, not to mention a chronometer
and perhaps an octant or two < grin > will become another form of nautical
challenge and nautical re-enactment.

About a decade ago a university professor took a 36 footer around the world
without use of modern navigation instruments.
They used a sandglass for time keeping, a chip log for speed and so on.  No
problem.

The Canadian Hydrographic staff at the Central Region office in Burlington
Ontario have a re-enactment group for chart survey work. They use a 27 foot
long boat built like the survey launches used by Capain Cook and also
Captain Bayfield when surveying the Canadian Great Lakes back in 1811 -
1832. Great fun! They get invited to all the museum and historic sites
celebrations.
One year they were invited to Fort Louisburg in Cape Breton.
This is where Captain James Cook first developed his techniques for chart
work and which have been in use until the late 20th century.  The survey
launch provides a peek into the past and how nautical charts were created
right from the beginning.

Cheers

Arild


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004

Phil Rosch wrote: I'd argue Neo-Luddites shouldn't be coerced into using computers. If you aren't comfortable using computers stick with the paper charts, dividers, and sextants or you'll constantly be blaming everyone from Microsoft to Intel for everything that doesn't seem to work right. REPLY And then ther are the non-luddites who simply want to re-enact olden times for the sheer challenge of it. I used to belong to such a group. We used flint locks or( gasp ) modern percussion cap muzzle loaders. Period costumes was de rigeur - and woe to anyone caught wearing polyester or even a blend. It was cotton or wool or skins - nothing else permitted. It was all in good fun, just to see if we could measure up to the challenge. And of course there are several instances of scandinavians building and sailing Viking longships from Europe to Vinland and vice versa, not to mention other arcane nautical re-enactments such as the Tall ships. Guess navigating with paper chart and pencil, not to mention a chronometer and perhaps an octant or two < grin > will become another form of nautical challenge and nautical re-enactment. About a decade ago a university professor took a 36 footer around the world without use of modern navigation instruments. They used a sandglass for time keeping, a chip log for speed and so on. No problem. The Canadian Hydrographic staff at the Central Region office in Burlington Ontario have a re-enactment group for chart survey work. They use a 27 foot long boat built like the survey launches used by Capain Cook and also Captain Bayfield when surveying the Canadian Great Lakes back in 1811 - 1832. Great fun! They get invited to all the museum and historic sites celebrations. One year they were invited to Fort Louisburg in Cape Breton. This is where Captain James Cook first developed his techniques for chart work and which have been in use until the late 20th century. The survey launch provides a peek into the past and how nautical charts were created right from the beginning. Cheers Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004