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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: Long term stable environmental sensors (Attila Kinali)

TA
Thomas Allgeier
Tue, Nov 29, 2022 9:33 PM

Moin Attila,

Here is what my homebrew weather station actually uses:
A HTU21D from TE Connectivity for temperature and humidity. These can be
bought already fitted to a breakout board (I2C), interfacing with the RPi
or whatever else.
A BMP388 from Bosch for atmospheric pressure, again on a breakout board
which has both I2C and SPI.
All of this has been running fine since the end of 2018. As I write the BMP
reads 1021.9 mbar, with the airport down the road reporting 1022. I
remember checking this frequently in the first few weeks of operation, with
never more than 1 mbar deviation. I haven't looked at it in years and am
surprised it is so close still.
The HTU21D says 5.58C and 87.7% rh, the airport 6C / 84%.

As I said the Bosch probably needs to be replaced with a BMP390 nowadays.

The greatest unreliability comes from the RPi which crashes once in a while
because I am such a lousy programmer.
There is even a time-nuts feature as the RPi also talks to a GPS module as
well as a RTC - I think it is that very combination which makes it unhappy.

Sorry about the confusion with the Bosch numbers in my initial reply.

BR,
Thomas.

> > > Moin Attila, Here is what my homebrew weather station actually uses: A HTU21D from TE Connectivity for temperature and humidity. These can be bought already fitted to a breakout board (I2C), interfacing with the RPi or whatever else. A BMP388 from Bosch for atmospheric pressure, again on a breakout board which has both I2C and SPI. All of this has been running fine since the end of 2018. As I write the BMP reads 1021.9 mbar, with the airport down the road reporting 1022. I remember checking this frequently in the first few weeks of operation, with never more than 1 mbar deviation. I haven't looked at it in years and am surprised it is so close still. The HTU21D says 5.58C and 87.7% rh, the airport 6C / 84%. As I said the Bosch probably needs to be replaced with a BMP390 nowadays. The greatest unreliability comes from the RPi which crashes once in a while because I am such a lousy programmer. There is even a time-nuts feature as the RPi also talks to a GPS module as well as a RTC - I think it is that very combination which makes it unhappy. Sorry about the confusion with the Bosch numbers in my initial reply. BR, Thomas.
NM
Neville Michie
Tue, Nov 29, 2022 11:23 PM

I have been using a variety of sensors and instruments over the last 50 years.
I do research on processes that occur in limestone caves and their atmospheres.
I also worked in a government research laboratory on developing measurement systems.
I stopped using dew point instruments because they were not suitable for ambient
conditions. They have errors of fractions of degrees. Thin film sensors do no
better that 1% RH and are not useable in the long term above 85-90% RH.
Sampling is a major problem in measuring environmental (air ) measurement.
I built a version of the WMO Reference Psychrometer, and I can measure air
temperature in a cave to 0.01K and ) 0.1% RH (including 100%RH) for an average reading sample
of 1m3 of air. These measurements preclude the presence of an observer.
Having taken the trouble to get consistent results in these stable conditions
I realise just how meaningless are the numbers that are bandied around of
measurements in laboratories and work shops with active heat fluxes of kilowatts.
I use a four terminal Pt RTD with a 5 digit HP ohm meter, in a stirred thermostatic
water bath to calibrate sensors, and an ice point cell to obtain a 10mK zero reference.
See: “Traceable Temperatures” J.V.Nicholas and D.R.White (1982) DSIR Bulletin 234, Wellington.
I built my own barometric sensors using altimeter capsules and an optical detection system.
I refer them to a laboratory grade Fortin Barometer.
When considering monitoring ambient conditions you must take account of radiation
on the instrument and always remember that an error of 1 centigrade degree of air
temperature causes anerror of ~10% RH.

Cheers, Neville Michie

I have been using a variety of sensors and instruments over the last 50 years. I do research on processes that occur in limestone caves and their atmospheres. I also worked in a government research laboratory on developing measurement systems. I stopped using dew point instruments because they were not suitable for ambient conditions. They have errors of fractions of degrees. Thin film sensors do no better that 1% RH and are not useable in the long term above 85-90% RH. Sampling is a major problem in measuring environmental (air ) measurement. I built a version of the WMO Reference Psychrometer, and I can measure air temperature in a cave to 0.01K and ) 0.1% RH (including 100%RH) for an average reading sample of 1m3 of air. These measurements preclude the presence of an observer. Having taken the trouble to get consistent results in these stable conditions I realise just how meaningless are the numbers that are bandied around of measurements in laboratories and work shops with active heat fluxes of kilowatts. I use a four terminal Pt RTD with a 5 digit HP ohm meter, in a stirred thermostatic water bath to calibrate sensors, and an ice point cell to obtain a 10mK zero reference. See: “Traceable Temperatures” J.V.Nicholas and D.R.White (1982) DSIR Bulletin 234, Wellington. I built my own barometric sensors using altimeter capsules and an optical detection system. I refer them to a laboratory grade Fortin Barometer. When considering monitoring ambient conditions you must take account of radiation on the instrument and always remember that an error of 1 centigrade degree of air temperature causes anerror of ~10% RH. Cheers, Neville Michie