Double checking your spares, money well spent
Boy I just had a great experience based on taking good advice.
To set the stage, I'm leaving the US for 6 months in about 3 weeks. Our
spares kit is fairly well built out and I'm in the final process of making
the boat ready for departure. On the way down the coast we experienced a
belt failure, not a big deal because the alternator used two belts and we
just lightened the load and continued on one belt.
However that got me thinking about the serpentine belt and how bad that
failure could have been. We were in 5 to 7 foot seas and when the boat was
on the wing my wife had a hard time maintaining control while I was in the
engine room removing the failed belt so we could continue running. After I
posted this experience a fellow Nordhavn owner recommended I check the part
number on the serpentine belt, because he was aware some owners had equipped
their belts with spares, only to find they were the wrong ones. Well, last
week I had a mechanic performing the factory recommended 500 hour valve
adjustment (each valve was .001 off) and I had him pull the shroud so we
could verify the number. He read me the number and I jotted it down.
Today I went to consult my spares list and guess what? The number on the
belt was R-123463 and my spare was R-123464. My first thought was I had
made a mistake transcribing the number. I found the original spares list
that Nordhavn provided (an excel spreadsheet probably from another boat) and
sure enough it specified R-123464, the belt I had as spare. So now I'm
thinking I have definitely written the wrong number down. So I call Barb
the parts goddess at Hatton in Seattle (206)283-5501 and she tells me if I
can get her the serial number of my engine, she can tell me exactly what
belt was put on the motor when it shipped to China. Well I get her the
number and she confirms the mechanic was spot on, R-123463, not 464. So I
figure, one is a replacement for the other, not true says Barb, a 463 is
1,613 mm long and a 464 is 1,635mm long. The different size belts
accommodate different alternators, so between my boat and someone else's
they changed alternators, resulting in a different belt.
There are some really important lessons here:
a. Owners and fellow boater sometimes give you the best advice. The
challenge is picking out these pearls of wisdom and acting on them
b. It's never cheaper to peek into some aspect of a part or service
issue then when in a yard doing a yearly service, when knowledgeable people
are aboard
c. Trusting an excel spreadsheet when you don't know who made it or
where it came from can be bad. Double check all your source data with the
real manuals and systems
d. Having access to someone like Barb in Seattle is INVALUABLE. She is
a wonder and frankly I don't care what their prices are. She's the kind of
person that would pick up the phone at 4:55 on a Friday afternoon because
she knows someone at the other end may be far away in need of her help. I
can't say enough good about her and Hatton.
In closing I'd like to thank the Nordhavn owner that made this suggestion.
I don't remember who it was, but if you reply to this rest assured you'll
never pick up the bar tab while I'm around!
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
One of the N57's I delivered several years ago from
Dana Point to Fort Lauderdale had a similar issue.
Given the length of the trip, I matched-up spares
where possible to avoid just such a situation. I don't
recall if it was the spare main or wing serpentine
belt, but one of them was clearly the wrong size. I'd
imagine there are a lot of spare part bins on boats
that have wrong gaskets, injectors, bolts, brackets,
and all number of items. Probably the greatest source
are 'inherited' parts from previous owners who
scavanged them from previous boats - thinking maybe,
just maybe that injector from a Perkins 6-354 will
work on a 4-246.
Those serpentine belts aren't exactly easy to find
sometimes. Can't imagine trying to replace one in El
Salvador. Almost as hard as finding a replacement
shower faucet cartridge for a Delta faucet (don't ask,
but it's really annoying to constantly turn on/off the
fresh water pump).
Peter
Willard 36
San Francisco
Scott,
Page 5-18 of the Parts Catalog for your engine has the correct serpentine
belt listed (R123463) for the 668. The 464 number is for the 668 Turbo and
is superceded. The turbo charged 668 is on N47s and perhaps that is where
your spreadsheet came from. If you do not have the Parts Catalog let me
know and I will send it to you or you can download it from the ADE website.
A similar and perhaps more vexing issue comes up on John Deere engines found
on many larger Nordhavns: the high output alternator is almost always added
by the distributor, not the manufacturer. Thus, those belts and alternators
won't even show up in the JD parts catalog. You have to contact the
distributor (Generally Cascade Engine in Seattle for JDs sent to PAE) for
specs on after market items like high output alternators, associated belts,
air intake systems, and CCV filters as these are added by the distributor.
Luggers are sold direct and configured at the factory, so contacting ADE
gets you what you need.
While the right part can almost always be determined by carefully reviewing
the parts catalog, checking parts numbers currently on the equipment and
fitting up new parts is the fail safe way to make sure you have the right
part, as previously mentioned on this forum.
Regards,
Barry
Commander (N40-46)
Capt. Barry Kallander
SeaKits, Inc.
978-779-5211 (Office)
978-790-1902 (Mobile)
646-219-3304 (efax)
From: NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Bulger
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:11 PM
To: NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com; 'Passagemaking Under Power List'
Subject: [NordhavnOwners] Double checking your spares, money well spent
Boy I just had a great experience based on taking good advice.
To set the stage, I'm leaving the US for 6 months in about 3 weeks. Our
spares kit is fairly well built out and I'm in the final process of making
the boat ready for departure. On the way down the coast we experienced a
belt failure, not a big deal because the alternator used two belts and we
just lightened the load and continued on one belt.
However that got me thinking about the serpentine belt and how bad that
failure could have been. We were in 5 to 7 foot seas and when the boat was
on the wing my wife had a hard time maintaining control while I was in the
engine room removing the failed belt so we could continue running. After I
posted this experience a fellow Nordhavn owner recommended I check the part
number on the serpentine belt, because he was aware some owners had equipped
their belts with spares, only to find they were the wrong ones. Well, last
week I had a mechanic performing the factory recommended 500 hour valve
adjustment (each valve was .001 off) and I had him pull the shroud so we
could verify the number. He read me the number and I jotted it down.
Today I went to consult my spares list and guess what? The number on the
belt was R-123463 and my spare was R-123464. My first thought was I had
made a mistake transcribing the number. I found the original spares list
that Nordhavn provided (an excel spreadsheet probably from another boat) and
sure enough it specified R-123464, the belt I had as spare. So now I'm
thinking I have definitely written the wrong number down. So I call Barb
the parts goddess at Hatton in Seattle (206)283-5501 and she tells me if I
can get her the serial number of my engine, she can tell me exactly what
belt was put on the motor when it shipped to China. Well I get her the
number and she confirms the mechanic was spot on, R-123463, not 464. So I
figure, one is a replacement for the other, not true says Barb, a 463 is
1,613 mm long and a 464 is 1,635mm long. The different size belts
accommodate different alternators, so between my boat and someone else's
they changed alternators, resulting in a different belt.
There are some really important lessons here:
a. Owners and fellow boater sometimes give you the best advice. The
challenge is picking out these pearls of wisdom and acting on them
b. It's never cheaper to peek into some aspect of a part or service
issue then when in a yard doing a yearly service, when knowledgeable people
are aboard
c. Trusting an excel spreadsheet when you don't know who made it or
where it came from can be bad. Double check all your source data with the
real manuals and systems
d. Having access to someone like Barb in Seattle is INVALUABLE. She is
a wonder and frankly I don't care what their prices are. She's the kind of
person that would pick up the phone at 4:55 on a Friday afternoon because
she knows someone at the other end may be far away in need of her help. I
can't say enough good about her and Hatton.
In closing I'd like to thank the Nordhavn owner that made this suggestion.
I don't remember who it was, but if you reply to this rest assured you'll
never pick up the bar tab while I'm around!
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
.,._
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,.,_
What Lugger told me-was the parts catalog does not have the correct belt for
the Nordhavn standard -ex-large(270 amp/hr) alternator. (Page 5-16 in our
book). This belt is not in ANY engine parts catalog. It is in our Bill of
Materials. The problem occurred when Nordhavn put together the list they
called and asked for the correct belt for the 668 Turbo. Lugger supplied
this. If YOU called Lugger with the Serial Number of your engine the bill
or materials lists the correct belt.
This is the problem with spares kits-if you do not check each part looking
at the actual part you will find mistakes. Sometimes the problem is in the
ordering, sometimes in the documentation, sometimes in the supplier
shipping, if it is important to you-YOU need to check each part. I am sorry
I cannot give you the part number-my spares kit has several belts numbers (4
actually so I do not know the correct one-arch!)
Also I recommend Vacuum packing each part. I find waterproof boxes do not
prevent the rubber parts/seals o-rings from deteriorating. Rubber dies from
contact with O2 (oxidation). Vacuum packed parts limits the O2 and over
time the rubber oxidizes the O2 to the point that the reaction slows down.
Waterproof boxes are not gas tight.
Scott Strickland-Not Scott Bugler
Nordhavn 47-Strickly for Fun
p.s. If someone wants they can cross post this to PUP-I am no longer a
member.
From: NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Barry Kallander
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:46 PM
To: NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com; 'Passagemaking Under Power Listin out
boo
Subject: RE: [NordhavnOwners] Double checking your spares, money well spent
Scott,
Page 5-18 of the Parts Catalog for your engine has the correct serpentine
belt listed (R123463) for the 668. The 464 number is for the 668 Turbo and
is superceded. The turbo charged 668 is on N47s and perhaps that is where
your spreadsheet came from. If you do not have the Parts Catalog let me
know and I will send it to you or you can download it from the ADE website.
A similar and perhaps more vexing issue comes up on John Deere engines found
on many larger Nordhavns: the high output alternator is almost always added
by the distributor, not the manufacturer. Thus, those belts and alternators
won't even show up in the JD parts catalog. You have to contact the
distributor (Generally Cascade Engine in Seattle for JDs sent to PAE) for
specs on after market items like high output alternators, associated belts,
air intake systems, and CCV filters as these are added by the distributor.
Luggers are sold direct and configured at the factory, so contacting ADE
gets you what you need.
While the right part can almost always be determined by carefully reviewing
the parts catalog, checking parts numbers currently on the equipment and
fitting up new parts is the fail safe way to make sure you have the right
part, as previously mentioned on this forum.
Regards,
Barry
Commander (N40-46)
Capt. Barry Kallander
SeaKits, Inc.
978-779-5211 (Office)
978-790-1902 (Mobile)
646-219-3304 (efax)
From: NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Bulger
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:11 PM
To: NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com; 'Passagemaking Under Power List'
Subject: [NordhavnOwners] Double checking your spares, money well spent
Boy I just had a great experience based on taking good advice.
To set the stage, I'm leaving the US for 6 months in about 3 weeks. Our
spares kit is fairly well built out and I'm in the final process of making
the boat ready for departure. On the way down the coast we experienced a
belt failure, not a big deal because the alternator used two belts and we
just lightened the load and continued on one belt.
However that got me thinking about the serpentine belt and how bad that
failure could have been. We were in 5 to 7 foot seas and when the boat was
on the wing my wife had a hard time maintaining control while I was in the
engine room removing the failed belt so we could continue running. After I
posted this experience a fellow Nordhavn owner recommended I check the part
number on the serpentine belt, because he was aware some owners had equipped
their belts with spares, only to find they were the wrong ones. Well, last
week I had a mechanic performing the factory recommended 500 hour valve
adjustment (each valve was .001 off) and I had him pull the shroud so we
could verify the number. He read me the number and I jotted it down.
Today I went to consult my spares list and guess what? The number on the
belt was R-123463 and my spare was R-123464. My first thought was I had
made a mistake transcribing the number. I found the original spares list
that Nordhavn provided (an excel spreadsheet probably from another boat) and
sure enough it specified R-123464, the belt I had as spare. So now I'm
thinking I have definitely written the wrong number down. So I call Barb
the parts goddess at Hatton in Seattle (206)283-5501 and she tells me if I
can get her the serial number of my engine, she can tell me exactly what
belt was put on the motor when it shipped to China. Well I get her the
number and she confirms the mechanic was spot on, R-123463, not 464. So I
figure, one is a replacement for the other, not true says Barb, a 463 is
1,613 mm long and a 464 is 1,635mm long. The different size belts
accommodate different alternators, so between my boat and someone else's
they changed alternators, resulting in a different belt.
There are some really important lessons here:
a. Owners and fellow boater sometimes give you the best advice. The
challenge is picking out these pearls of wisdom and acting on them
b. It's never cheaper to peek into some aspect of a part or service
issue then when in a yard doing a yearly service, when knowledgeable people
are aboard
c. Trusting an excel spreadsheet when you don't know who made it or
where it came from can be bad. Double check all your source data with the
real manuals and systems
d. Having access to someone like Barb in Seattle is INVALUABLE. She is
a wonder and frankly I don't care what their prices are. She's the kind of
person that would pick up the phone at 4:55 on a Friday afternoon because
she knows someone at the other end may be far away in need of her help. I
can't say enough good about her and Hatton.
In closing I'd like to thank the Nordhavn owner that made this suggestion.
I don't remember who it was, but if you reply to this rest assured you'll
never pick up the bar tab while I'm around!
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
.,._
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And just to reiterate a point in my earlier post, Barb at Hatton in Seattle
has internet access to a system at Lugger where she can see the BOM (Bill of
Materials) for your Lugger engine build. While the part may have been
changed later, she can at least tell you what shipped from Lugger. As Scott
S suggested and the process I'm currently performing, you really need to
check everything.
Oh, while I'm at it, I realized I made a mistake in my earlier cataloging
and storage of parts. I'd grab the part, verify it was correct and enter it
into an excel spreadsheet. I updated where it was stored (most of my parts
are under the berth in the master stateroom. What I failed to do was attach
a laymans description to the part itself. This became an issue when I went
searching for spare for my failed belt. I opened up the container and there
were all the belts, with part numbers, but it would have been so much better
if it said:
Main Engine, Alternator Belt 1 of 2 (they were sold as sets, now are
individual).
Having a quick, laymans description for parts that could be confused would
be really helpful. Oh, of course I group them by what major system they are
for, wing, main, gen, fw pumps, sw pumps...
Also in keeping a parts history in the spreadsheet it's important to
annotate where you make changes. I upgraded the belts on the alternator to
a Gates Fleet Green Stripe, rather than just the Green Stripe. The Fleet
series is for heavy duty trucks, same dimensions, just better rubber I
guess? Anyway, now my in-service belt is different than the spare, but the
spare is still perfectly good.
Another case for vacuum bagging, my wife said she could smell all the parts
under the berth. I said that was crazy, but she proved it by putting every
single part in a ziplock bag. Sure enough the smell went away. The worst
odors were from the filters and belts.
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
On other comment I place labels on the part (or near it) dating when I last
replaced,
Belts, pumps, coolant pumps, dinghy motor 100 hr check etc.
From: NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Bulger
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:55 AM
To: 'Passagemaking Under Power List'; NordhavnOwners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PUP] [NordhavnOwners] Double checking your spares, money well
spent
And just to reiterate a point in my earlier post, Barb at Hatton in Seattle
has internet access to a system at Lugger where she can see the BOM (Bill of
Materials) for your Lugger engine build. While the part may have been
changed later, she can at least tell you what shipped from Lugger. As Scott
S suggested and the process I'm currently performing, you really need to
check everything.
Oh, while I'm at it, I realized I made a mistake in my earlier cataloging
and storage of parts. I'd grab the part, verify it was correct and enter it
into an excel spreadsheet. I updated where it was stored (most of my parts
are under the berth in the master stateroom. What I failed to do was attach
a laymans description to the part itself. This became an issue when I went
searching for spare for my failed belt. I opened up the container and there
were all the belts, with part numbers, but it would have been so much better
if it said:
Main Engine, Alternator Belt 1 of 2 (they were sold as sets, now are
individual).
Having a quick, laymans description for parts that could be confused would
be really helpful. Oh, of course I group them by what major system they are
for, wing, main, gen, fw pumps, sw pumps...
Also in keeping a parts history in the spreadsheet it's important to
annotate where you make changes. I upgraded the belts on the alternator to
a Gates Fleet Green Stripe, rather than just the Green Stripe. The Fleet
series is for heavy duty trucks, same dimensions, just better rubber I
guess? Anyway, now my in-service belt is different than the spare, but the
spare is still perfectly good.
Another case for vacuum bagging, my wife said she could smell all the parts
under the berth. I said that was crazy, but she proved it by putting every
single part in a ziplock bag. Sure enough the smell went away. The worst
odors were from the filters and belts.
Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
.,._
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