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Re: T&T: Solar panels to replace bimini

RP
Robert Phillips
Thu, Nov 6, 2014 12:45 PM

<  I would probably stretch Stamoid under the panels with
room for air between the Stamoid and the panels. >

Stamoid is a PVC fabric made in Switzerland by Ferrari, the car company, and is horrendously expensive with half the tensile strength compared to any of the generic truck tarp fabrics.  The top layer of PVC is very thin and it has a much shorter life in high UV than the 16-18 oz. truck tarp fabrics, which are a quarter the price.  Having used truck tarp for many high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a much better value.

We have recently been installing the Solbian flexible solar panels onto truck tarp fabric tops with Velcro strips around the perimeter of the panels.  These panels do not require any more framing than does the top.  All we do to create an air space is put a 3/4" round fiberglass rod down the center of the panel, bowing it up slightly in the middle.  For the Velcro there is a flap with loop, strip of hook adhered to the panel on top, strip of loop on underside and strip of hook sewn to the top; Velcro top and bottom and the flap stays flat when the panel is removed protecting the Velcro from UV.  The base of these panels is 1/16" polycarbonate to which the self adhesive Velcro sticks very well.

Robert Phillips
Another Asylum, 60' Custom Trawler
Tortola, BVI

< I would probably stretch Stamoid under the panels with room for air between the Stamoid and the panels. > Stamoid is a PVC fabric made in Switzerland by Ferrari, the car company, and is horrendously expensive with half the tensile strength compared to any of the generic truck tarp fabrics. The top layer of PVC is very thin and it has a much shorter life in high UV than the 16-18 oz. truck tarp fabrics, which are a quarter the price. Having used truck tarp for many high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a much better value. We have recently been installing the Solbian flexible solar panels onto truck tarp fabric tops with Velcro strips around the perimeter of the panels. These panels do not require any more framing than does the top. All we do to create an air space is put a 3/4" round fiberglass rod down the center of the panel, bowing it up slightly in the middle. For the Velcro there is a flap with loop, strip of hook adhered to the panel on top, strip of loop on underside and strip of hook sewn to the top; Velcro top and bottom and the flap stays flat when the panel is removed protecting the Velcro from UV. The base of these panels is 1/16" polycarbonate to which the self adhesive Velcro sticks very well. Robert Phillips Another Asylum, 60' Custom Trawler Tortola, BVI
MR
Mark Richter
Thu, Nov 6, 2014 5:26 PM

Can anyone provide me with trade names for this wonderful, strong and cheap truck tarp fabric?  Even better would be a source or two, I'm in SW Florida.

Having used truck tarp for many high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a much better value.

Robert Phillips
Another Asylum

Can anyone provide me with trade names for this wonderful, strong and cheap truck tarp fabric? Even better would be a source or two, I'm in SW Florida. > Having used truck tarp for many high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a much better value. > > Robert Phillips > Another Asylum
RP
Robert Phillips
Thu, Nov 6, 2014 7:00 PM

Shelterrite.com, Trivantage has a like product named GVC18.  These are a polyester scrim coated with PVC.  The important term is coated, which means the PVC was spread on with a "knife" resulting in a much thicker coating than the usual cheap pleasure marine fabrics which are laminated, meaning a thin layer of PVC was forced onto the scrim resulting in a thin layer.  In the presence of UV the plasticizers, which keep the coating flexible, degrade and the laminated fabrics, with their thin coating, crack in a few years.

The laced to welded frame top on Another Asylum, 18' x 12', black Shelter-Rite, went on in 2001 and hasn't been off since then and still feels rubbery.

Robert Phillips
Doyle Sailmakers BVI, Ltd.
bob@doylecaribbean.com
Mobile 284-541-2206
Office 284-494-2569

On Nov 6, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Mark Richter wrote:

Can anyone provide me with trade names for this wonderful, strong and cheap truck tarp fabric?  Even better would be a source or two, I'm in SW Florida.

Having used truck tarp for many high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a much better value.

Robert Phillips
Another Asylum

Shelterrite.com, Trivantage has a like product named GVC18. These are a polyester scrim coated with PVC. The important term is coated, which means the PVC was spread on with a "knife" resulting in a much thicker coating than the usual cheap pleasure marine fabrics which are laminated, meaning a thin layer of PVC was forced onto the scrim resulting in a thin layer. In the presence of UV the plasticizers, which keep the coating flexible, degrade and the laminated fabrics, with their thin coating, crack in a few years. The laced to welded frame top on Another Asylum, 18' x 12', black Shelter-Rite, went on in 2001 and hasn't been off since then and still feels rubbery. Robert Phillips Doyle Sailmakers BVI, Ltd. bob@doylecaribbean.com Mobile 284-541-2206 Office 284-494-2569 On Nov 6, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Mark Richter wrote: > Can anyone provide me with trade names for this wonderful, strong and cheap truck tarp fabric? Even better would be a source or two, I'm in SW Florida. > >> Having used truck tarp for many high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a much better value. >> >> Robert Phillips >> Another Asylum
JH
Jonathan Haas
Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:05 PM

Robert: Any chance you could provide us with a diagram or photos of this
setup?  It sounds effective and do-able.

Thanks,
Jonathan Haas

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Robert Phillips via Trawlers-and-Trawlering
trawlers@lists.trawlering.com wrote:

<  I would probably stretch Stamoid under the panels with
room for air between the Stamoid and the panels. >

Stamoid is a PVC fabric made in Switzerland by Ferrari, the car company,
and is horrendously expensive with half the tensile strength compared to
any of the generic truck tarp fabrics.  The top layer of PVC is very thin
and it has a much shorter life in high UV than the 16-18 oz. truck tarp
fabrics, which are a quarter the price.  Having used truck tarp for many
high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a
much better value.

We have recently been installing the Solbian flexible solar panels onto
truck tarp fabric tops with Velcro strips around the perimeter of the
panels.  These panels do not require any more framing than does the top.
All we do to create an air space is put a 3/4" round fiberglass rod down
the center of the panel, bowing it up slightly in the middle.  For the
Velcro there is a flap with loop, strip of hook adhered to the panel on
top, strip of loop on underside and strip of hook sewn to the top; Velcro
top and bottom and the flap stays flat when the panel is removed protecting
the Velcro from UV.  The base of these panels is 1/16" polycarbonate to
which the self adhesive Velcro sticks very well.

Robert Phillips
Another Asylum, 60' Custom Trawler
Tortola, BVI


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Robert: Any chance you could provide us with a diagram or photos of this setup? It sounds effective and do-able. Thanks, Jonathan Haas On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Robert Phillips via Trawlers-and-Trawlering <trawlers@lists.trawlering.com> wrote: > < I would probably stretch Stamoid under the panels with > room for air between the Stamoid and the panels. > > > Stamoid is a PVC fabric made in Switzerland by Ferrari, the car company, > and is horrendously expensive with half the tensile strength compared to > any of the generic truck tarp fabrics. The top layer of PVC is very thin > and it has a much shorter life in high UV than the 16-18 oz. truck tarp > fabrics, which are a quarter the price. Having used truck tarp for many > high end yacht enclosures for over twenty years I can attest to it being a > much better value. > > We have recently been installing the Solbian flexible solar panels onto > truck tarp fabric tops with Velcro strips around the perimeter of the > panels. These panels do not require any more framing than does the top. > All we do to create an air space is put a 3/4" round fiberglass rod down > the center of the panel, bowing it up slightly in the middle. For the > Velcro there is a flap with loop, strip of hook adhered to the panel on > top, strip of loop on underside and strip of hook sewn to the top; Velcro > top and bottom and the flap stays flat when the panel is removed protecting > the Velcro from UV. The base of these panels is 1/16" polycarbonate to > which the self adhesive Velcro sticks very well. > > > Robert Phillips > Another Asylum, 60' Custom Trawler > Tortola, BVI > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change > email address, etc) go to: > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited. >
L
lalicata@alum.rpi.edu
Fri, Nov 7, 2014 7:56 AM

My experience:

Long before we built LeeZe, I had noticed that trucks were using fabric covers to shield their cargo.

And, knowing that their money is tight, I figured these covers had to last a while.

But there are no real truck stops here so taking to truckers was hard.

However, an opportunity presented itself when “stuck” at a customs border.

There I learned a lot about these covers.

Long haul truckers that usually only open and close their tarps at pick up points and destinations favor a two part tarp that is very difficult to roll but handles road and weather well.  If folded, the creases “break” the outer fabric rendering useless.  With a little patience, it rolls OK. It is hard to find locally but if one goes to a town where they make trailers for trucks, there is always a shop or two that has it.

It appears to weigh about 23 ounces per square foot, is stiff, and when installing grommets, the shops make the hole, put in a two part plastic piece in the hole, puts the grommet in the plastic part, and then use a heat gun to finish the installation.

The price for this fabric was 30% of the cost of Sunbrella and less than 20% of Stamoid

Finding a color the Admiral liked was hard.

We use this to cover table tops, our Winter tender cover, and side curtains to cut the sun in summer.

Other truckers use a fabric that is also two part, but much easier to roll up and down. This appears to weigh about 17 ounce per square foot, and is probably 40% cheaper than the 23 ounce stuff.

This fabric from what I learned is expected to last about 5-6 years before it has become so weak from the road and the weather that the grommets start pulling out.

We use this fabric for stuff we roll up and down, making sure the outside layer faces the sun.

It is next too impossible for the local fabricators to get either of these cloths but with some effort, we located a seller in a big city nearby (300 km) that we can get “bolts” from and have the local guy make what we need.

We have also come to learn that the car interior guys have a fabric for seat covers that is perfect for outdoor seating. It seems to be like Sunbrella, but dirt and slime and salt just rinse off easily. It does tend too stick to wet butts and if left in the sun, it gets hot, but for our aft deck, this stuff works.

For indoor cushions, we went to a curtain shop and looked at their “fake leather” fabrics and got one that we like.

The point: Looking outside the marine world for solutions may be rewarding. My guess is that if one went to a RV show, one could find fabrics that might fit your needs.

I have NO idea if there are long haul trucking shows stateside, but I do know a friend who stopped at a Peterbuilt (sp?) truck dealership and eventually installed truck tarp as awnings and shade for his new home.

Lee

Çanakkale, Turkey

My experience: Long before we built LeeZe, I had noticed that trucks were using fabric covers to shield their cargo. And, knowing that their money is tight, I figured these covers had to last a while. But there are no real truck stops here so taking to truckers was hard. However, an opportunity presented itself when “stuck” at a customs border. There I learned a lot about these covers. Long haul truckers that usually only open and close their tarps at pick up points and destinations favor a two part tarp that is very difficult to roll but handles road and weather well. If folded, the creases “break” the outer fabric rendering useless. With a little patience, it rolls OK. It is hard to find locally but if one goes to a town where they make trailers for trucks, there is always a shop or two that has it. It appears to weigh about 23 ounces per square foot, is stiff, and when installing grommets, the shops make the hole, put in a two part plastic piece in the hole, puts the grommet in the plastic part, and then use a heat gun to finish the installation. The price for this fabric was 30% of the cost of Sunbrella and less than 20% of Stamoid Finding a color the Admiral liked was hard. We use this to cover table tops, our Winter tender cover, and side curtains to cut the sun in summer. Other truckers use a fabric that is also two part, but much easier to roll up and down. This appears to weigh about 17 ounce per square foot, and is probably 40% cheaper than the 23 ounce stuff. This fabric from what I learned is expected to last about 5-6 years before it has become so weak from the road and the weather that the grommets start pulling out. We use this fabric for stuff we roll up and down, making sure the outside layer faces the sun. It is next too impossible for the local fabricators to get either of these cloths but with some effort, we located a seller in a big city nearby (300 km) that we can get “bolts” from and have the local guy make what we need. We have also come to learn that the car interior guys have a fabric for seat covers that is perfect for outdoor seating. It seems to be like Sunbrella, but dirt and slime and salt just rinse off easily. It does tend too stick to wet butts and if left in the sun, it gets hot, but for our aft deck, this stuff works. For indoor cushions, we went to a curtain shop and looked at their “fake leather” fabrics and got one that we like. The point: Looking outside the marine world for solutions may be rewarding. My guess is that if one went to a RV show, one could find fabrics that might fit your needs. I have NO idea if there are long haul trucking shows stateside, but I do know a friend who stopped at a Peterbuilt (sp?) truck dealership and eventually installed truck tarp as awnings and shade for his new home. Lee Çanakkale, Turkey