passagemaking@lists.trawlering.com

Passagemaking Under Power List

View all threads

Re: [PUP] Security; was Thefts in St. Martin

DC
Dave Cooper
Thu, Aug 16, 2007 8:25 PM

<John wrote: Go and visit the Eastern Caribbean islands and enjoy all they have to offer before they become like the rest of Paradise.>

Hear, hear!

One thing I did fail to mention is that marine crime is not focused on the
Flag you are flying from our experience or anyone we have talked to. If
there is crime on the water in a location it affects everyone...locals as
well as non-locals. Same is true on land.

So again staying out of a known high crime area is part of the street smarts
I referred to. Tho I have tied up to the buttress under the Brooklyn Bridge
I sure wouldn't leave my boat unattended there for a heartbeat!

Just because the water is warm and shoreline is palm trees vs. inner city
blight or areas that have been talked about on some canals this season
doesn't mean you are free to leave that wallet, as John says, flying from
the yard arm.

The level of violent crime is low but pervades all areas from Cuba, to the
Eastern Caribbean, to Venezuela, to Columbia and back up the Central
American coast to the Yucatan. No one area has been free from it nor does
any area have a lock on it.

Some spots are hotter than others but to paint any one country such that you
avoid it is to miss a lot of what you went cruising to find, different
environments and different cultures. If you want to be 100% safe, warm and
fussy stay at home dead bolted in with a home theater and watch life on a
big screen pass you by, IMHO.

Is the US bad because someone in the Chesapeake or Boston Harbor or Erie
Canal, or, or, or, had their boat broken into? I don't think so. It's too
easy to say Eastern Caribbean or Venezuela, etc. These are all big places
and there is much to see and enjoy. Please don't think or curtail your plans
to cruise and visit these areas.

As John says....."I can say with some certainty that the recent security
situation is vastly overblown. Some folks are victims of their own lack of
taking reasonable care of their security."

It is on the other hand your to report to the local authorities (police) any
incidence that you have. Without this, the various security nets are only
places that will list your issue, they cannot do anything about it for the
next person. Only the local police can do this. No matter that you may have
to push the report down their throats, unfortunately.

We have found that reports are usually hand written on scraps of paper
usually with several copies...using old carbon paper of course. Again the
budgets are tight and what we would expect isn't what you'll be presented
with. In some cases they will accept a nicely typed report but not always.
Often times there will be several different reports required...again hand
written. We encounter one station where only the officer could write the
report...by hand, ever so slowly, while we related it to him.....
Frustrating? You bet!! But this was the way it was done for everyone. Will
this report get circulated...not if there were only one or two carbons for
sure! Will your incidence get the attention of the local CID (Criminal
Investigation Unit)? Perhaps in a few days or weeks as the schedule allows
and if it's of enough value. OTOH, if they have had several of these hand
written reports in a short period then it will move up the list of
priorities. However, if no one else has actually sat down and made these
tedious reports then nothing will happen. I think you get the picture.

If the crime involves weapons or has actually harmed someone then it will
get attention much more quickly....but only if the reporting system has been
followed.

We never have been through the above on the marine side but have been on the
land side many times over the last 30 years in the Caribbean. Your command
of the English language may be flawless but the local language may not be
the English that you know. It can be one of the many unwritten dialects that
contain, French, Dutch, Danish, Spanish and many other words that have be
integrated into the local language. The patois is what the report may be in.
In the Spanish world like Venezuela and west up to Yucatan it is in the
local Spanish patois in general. Haiti has it French based
patois....undecipherable to me after many years of trying as one on my old
crew was from Haiti....he couldn't read or write so I offered to help him do
so if he would teach me languages...he spoke 8!!  He learned to write and
read but I never got down the list of languages...especially Haitian
Patois!!

This lack of written reporting is why, IMHO, there isn't a lot of official
activity with regards to the transient marine crimes. No one wants to stick
around if they've be a victim so they walk with their props and talk with
the SSB/VHF. This sure makes it harder for a poor cop who has a might have a
report, no SSB/VHF, no boat to use to visit the crime scene unless a boater
offers his and often times no crime scene as the victim/boat has left.

One needs to reset their expectations when they leave there home area in
what they are used to. This is really, really hard for some folks who are
dependent upon the physical/social structure that they've grown up with. It
is however very necessary. We see lots of folks that make the change, OTOH,
we see many who can't or struggle trying to do so.

Do you know what the political structure of the next country on your agenda
is? Who is the prime minister/president/etc, when was he/she elected? Are
they popular? All of these kinds of questions and the correct answers will

Security aboard and abroad are keystones in making this transitions. They
are as much a part of cruising/passagemaking as the kind of boat you choose
and the transition to a life of 24/7 with your partner from one of having
tons of "space" and "room to get away". It vanishes in a heartbeat when
those docklines are cut and the jobs are gone and the house is gone, and the
cars are gone and you have the X by X feet of world to live in ;-)

So we've been victims and we'll be victims again, I suspect. This time it
will be most likely on the water so we can report it to the local police and
anyone else who will listen via the SSB/VHF. I hope it won't happen and we
continue to work on its prevention but we refuse to live in fear nor do we
write off a country because of reports of questionable validity. We'll pick
and choose where we go, we'll maintain and posture Swan Song to be as
undesirable target as possible and we'll take our chances. Meanwhile we'll
have enjoyed some of the most beautiful isolated anchorages, shore side
excursions, tender trips to places Swan Song could never go, sunsets and
meeting people who are always most enjoyable. From local boat builders on
the beach in coves that don't appear on the charts, to the fisherman that we
always toot to and wave when we pass by, to forays on the local busses far
from the "tourist" trails. We now have friends in the Carib Territory on
Dominica whose faces always light up when we appear and greet them by
name.....to those guys eking out a living in the fishing shacks on the edge
of the water in Venezuela. All part of the human race and deserve our
respect.

None of this would be possible if we listened to the doom & gloom security
nets, read the internet sites about crime/piracy and didn't put some plain
old common sense filters on it all.

Again to quote John.."I can say with some certainty that the recent security
situation is vastly overblown".

As always YMMV....

Dave & Nancy
Swan Song
Roughwater 58

<John wrote: Go and visit the Eastern Caribbean islands and enjoy all they have to offer before they become like the rest of Paradise.> Hear, hear! One thing I did fail to mention is that marine crime is not focused on the Flag you are flying from our experience or anyone we have talked to. If there is crime on the water in a location it affects everyone...locals as well as non-locals. Same is true on land. So again staying out of a known high crime area is part of the street smarts I referred to. Tho I have tied up to the buttress under the Brooklyn Bridge I sure wouldn't leave my boat unattended there for a heartbeat! Just because the water is warm and shoreline is palm trees vs. inner city blight or areas that have been talked about on some canals this season doesn't mean you are free to leave that wallet, as John says, flying from the yard arm. The level of violent crime is low but pervades all areas from Cuba, to the Eastern Caribbean, to Venezuela, to Columbia and back up the Central American coast to the Yucatan. No one area has been free from it nor does any area have a lock on it. Some spots are hotter than others but to paint any one country such that you avoid it is to miss a lot of what you went cruising to find, different environments and different cultures. If you want to be 100% safe, warm and fussy stay at home dead bolted in with a home theater and watch life on a big screen pass you by, IMHO. Is the US bad because someone in the Chesapeake or Boston Harbor or Erie Canal, or, or, or, had their boat broken into? I don't think so. It's too easy to say Eastern Caribbean or Venezuela, etc. These are all big places and there is much to see and enjoy. Please don't think or curtail your plans to cruise and visit these areas. As John says....."I can say with some certainty that the recent security situation is vastly overblown. Some folks are victims of their own lack of taking reasonable care of their security." It is on the other hand your to report to the local authorities (police) any incidence that you have. Without this, the various security nets are only places that will list your issue, they cannot do anything about it for the next person. Only the local police can do this. No matter that you may have to push the report down their throats, unfortunately. We have found that reports are usually hand written on scraps of paper usually with several copies...using old carbon paper of course. Again the budgets are tight and what we would expect isn't what you'll be presented with. In some cases they will accept a nicely typed report but not always. Often times there will be several different reports required...again hand written. We encounter one station where only the officer could write the report...by hand, ever so slowly, while we related it to him..... Frustrating? You bet!! But this was the way it was done for everyone. Will this report get circulated...not if there were only one or two carbons for sure! Will your incidence get the attention of the local CID (Criminal Investigation Unit)? Perhaps in a few days or weeks as the schedule allows and if it's of enough value. OTOH, if they have had several of these hand written reports in a short period then it will move up the list of priorities. However, if no one else has actually sat down and made these tedious reports then nothing will happen. I think you get the picture. If the crime involves weapons or has actually harmed someone then it will get attention much more quickly....but only if the reporting system has been followed. We never have been through the above on the marine side but have been on the land side many times over the last 30 years in the Caribbean. Your command of the English language may be flawless but the local language may not be the English that you know. It can be one of the many unwritten dialects that contain, French, Dutch, Danish, Spanish and many other words that have be integrated into the local language. The patois is what the report may be in. In the Spanish world like Venezuela and west up to Yucatan it is in the local Spanish patois in general. Haiti has it French based patois....undecipherable to me after many years of trying as one on my old crew was from Haiti....he couldn't read or write so I offered to help him do so if he would teach me languages...he spoke 8!! He learned to write and read but I never got down the list of languages...especially Haitian Patois!! This lack of written reporting is why, IMHO, there isn't a lot of official activity with regards to the transient marine crimes. No one wants to stick around if they've be a victim so they walk with their props and talk with the SSB/VHF. This sure makes it harder for a poor cop who has a might have a report, no SSB/VHF, no boat to use to visit the crime scene unless a boater offers his and often times no crime scene as the victim/boat has left. One needs to reset their expectations when they leave there home area in what they are used to. This is really, really hard for some folks who are dependent upon the physical/social structure that they've grown up with. It is however very necessary. We see lots of folks that make the change, OTOH, we see many who can't or struggle trying to do so. Do you know what the political structure of the next country on your agenda is? Who is the prime minister/president/etc, when was he/she elected? Are they popular? All of these kinds of questions and the correct answers will Security aboard and abroad are keystones in making this transitions. They are as much a part of cruising/passagemaking as the kind of boat you choose and the transition to a life of 24/7 with your partner from one of having tons of "space" and "room to get away". It vanishes in a heartbeat when those docklines are cut and the jobs are gone and the house is gone, and the cars are gone and you have the X by X feet of world to live in ;-) So we've been victims and we'll be victims again, I suspect. This time it will be most likely on the water so we can report it to the local police and anyone else who will listen via the SSB/VHF. I hope it won't happen and we continue to work on its prevention but we refuse to live in fear nor do we write off a country because of reports of questionable validity. We'll pick and choose where we go, we'll maintain and posture Swan Song to be as undesirable target as possible and we'll take our chances. Meanwhile we'll have enjoyed some of the most beautiful isolated anchorages, shore side excursions, tender trips to places Swan Song could never go, sunsets and meeting people who are always most enjoyable. From local boat builders on the beach in coves that don't appear on the charts, to the fisherman that we always toot to and wave when we pass by, to forays on the local busses far from the "tourist" trails. We now have friends in the Carib Territory on Dominica whose faces always light up when we appear and greet them by name.....to those guys eking out a living in the fishing shacks on the edge of the water in Venezuela. All part of the human race and deserve our respect. None of this would be possible if we listened to the doom & gloom security nets, read the internet sites about crime/piracy and didn't put some plain old common sense filters on it all. Again to quote John.."I can say with some certainty that the recent security situation is vastly overblown". As always YMMV.... Dave & Nancy Swan Song Roughwater 58
PK
Patrik Kinander
Thu, Aug 16, 2007 10:24 PM

Where well said both Dave and John.
I hope that my previous discussions hasn't scared anyone off to visit any of
the Caribbean Islands. They all have there charm, and you will
most likely have a wonderfully time.

I have never been afraid to visit any of the eastern islands. On some
islands depending on the reporting on security net, for specifically that
season, I have watch my back more then on others. Crime rate goes up and
down on every island. Some islands could go by for years without any theft
and suddenly for a month or two a lot happens, and then when the
perpetrator get caught everything is back to normal again.

--
Patrik Kinander

Where well said both Dave and John. I hope that my previous discussions hasn't scared anyone off to visit any of the Caribbean Islands. They all have there charm, and you will most likely have a wonderfully time. I have never been afraid to visit any of the eastern islands. On some islands depending on the reporting on security net, for specifically that season, I have watch my back more then on others. Crime rate goes up and down on every island. Some islands could go by for years without any theft and suddenly for a month or two a lot happens, and then when the perpetrator get caught everything is back to normal again. -- Patrik Kinander