Empathy List Archives

S

SAIDJACK@aol.com

Sun, Nov 1, 2009 3:20 AM

Hi Joe,

I have the same problem with my Thunderbolt even though my splitter works
well. Not sure why. This is especially so if I cascade the Agilent unit
with a passive splitter, I can never get the Thunderbolt to lock up.

I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's
receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter.

M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units
are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series.

Do you have another receiver you can try?

In terms of schematics, it's really straight forward, see the Mini-circuits
website for sample schematics for the ERA part, the agilent unit has
pretty much the same setup.

The amp is followed by a resistive splitter, and possibly a resistive
attenuator (on the 2-port version). Then a cavity filter, then the N-Connector,
very simple, not much that can go wrong.

bye,
Said

In a message dated 10/31/2009 18:21:16 Pacific Daylight Time,
jltran@worldnet.att.net writes:

Said,

Thanks for the reply. This is certainly a starting point. A schematic
would be wonderful. I have looked and have not found one yet.

The units both provide about 4.5 VDC to the center pin when any port is
connected to my Tbolt. However, the signal amplitude, as measured by
TBoltMon, is essentially non existent on the 4 way splitter and divided by
at least 2 on the 2 way splitter. Therefore, I suspect the amplifier is
dead. Did not know about the voltage regulator. Will open one and get to
work.

Thanks,

Joe

Hi Joe, I have the same problem with my Thunderbolt even though my splitter works well. Not sure why. This is especially so if I cascade the Agilent unit with a passive splitter, I can never get the Thunderbolt to lock up. I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter. M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series. Do you have another receiver you can try? In terms of schematics, it's really straight forward, see the Mini-circuits website for sample schematics for the ERA part, the agilent unit has pretty much the same setup. The amp is followed by a resistive splitter, and possibly a resistive attenuator (on the 2-port version). Then a cavity filter, then the N-Connector, very simple, not much that can go wrong. bye, Said In a message dated 10/31/2009 18:21:16 Pacific Daylight Time, jltran@worldnet.att.net writes: Said, Thanks for the reply. This is certainly a starting point. A schematic would be wonderful. I have looked and have not found one yet. The units both provide about 4.5 VDC to the center pin when any port is connected to my Tbolt. However, the signal amplitude, as measured by TBoltMon, is essentially non existent on the 4 way splitter and divided by at least 2 on the 2 way splitter. Therefore, I suspect the amplifier is dead. Did not know about the voltage regulator. Will open one and get to work. Thanks, Joe

MD

Magnus Danielson

Sun, Nov 1, 2009 11:18 AM

SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:

Hi Joe,

I have the same problem with my Thunderbolt even though my splitter works
well. Not sure why. This is especially so if I cascade the Agilent unit
with a passive splitter, I can never get the Thunderbolt to lock up.

I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's
receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter.

M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units
are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series.

Do you have another receiver you can try?

In terms of schematics, it's really straight forward, see the Mini-circuits
website for sample schematics for the ERA part, the agilent unit has
pretty much the same setup.

The amp is followed by a resistive splitter, and possibly a resistive
attenuator (on the 2-port version). Then a cavity filter, then the N-Connector,
very simple, not much that can go wrong.

They do have DC load on the non-DC-thru ports.

Check the open/short status on the thunderbolt. It's very easy to see
with the Thunderbolt monitor program.

Cheers,
Magnus

SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I have the same problem with my Thunderbolt even though my splitter works > well. Not sure why. This is especially so if I cascade the Agilent unit > with a passive splitter, I can never get the Thunderbolt to lock up. > > I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's > receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter. > > M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units > are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series. > > Do you have another receiver you can try? > > In terms of schematics, it's really straight forward, see the Mini-circuits > website for sample schematics for the ERA part, the agilent unit has > pretty much the same setup. > > The amp is followed by a resistive splitter, and possibly a resistive > attenuator (on the 2-port version). Then a cavity filter, then the N-Connector, > very simple, not much that can go wrong. They do have DC load on the non-DC-thru ports. Check the open/short status on the thunderbolt. It's very easy to see with the Thunderbolt monitor program. Cheers, Magnus

B

bg@lysator.liu.se

Sun, Nov 1, 2009 12:02 PM

Hi Said,

I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's
receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter.

M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units
are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series.

Did you check that you have enough signal power for the Tbolt, when
cascading (passive) splitters?

--

Björn

Hi Said, > I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's > receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter. > > M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units > are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series. Did you check that you have enough signal power for the Tbolt, when cascading (passive) splitters? -- Björn

MD

Magnus Danielson

Sun, Nov 1, 2009 12:28 PM

bg@lysator.liu.se wrote:

Hi Said,

I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's
receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter.

M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units
are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series.

Did you check that you have enough signal power for the Tbolt, when
cascading (passive) splitters?

If cascading active splitters, the gain should be about 0 dB, but the
S/N degrades.

If I recall correctly, the HP/Agilent/Symmetricom range of splitters are
all active.

When running multiple splitters, adding an LNA to raise the level such
that S/N degradation does not suffer as much is probably wise.

Cheers,
Magnus

bg@lysator.liu.se wrote: > Hi Said, > >> I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's >> receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter. >> >> M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units >> are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series. > > Did you check that you have enough signal power for the Tbolt, when > cascading (passive) splitters? If cascading active splitters, the gain should be about 0 dB, but the S/N degrades. If I recall correctly, the HP/Agilent/Symmetricom range of splitters are all active. When running multiple splitters, adding an LNA to raise the level such that S/N degradation does not suffer as much is probably wise. Cheers, Magnus

JL

J. L. Trantham

Sun, Nov 1, 2009 1:36 PM

Said,

Interesting thought. I had not considered the TBolt to be a source of a
problem.

I also have two HP 58517A 8 way splitters, one that gets it's DC for the
antenna through an SMB connector and one that gets it's DC from port 1.
They seem to work fine with the TBolt. I also have a Symmetricom
090-58537-01 4 way splitter and it works fine with the TBolt as well. By
this, I mean place the splitter between the TBolt and the antenna with
nothing else connected.

When I do this with the 58535A or 58536A, signal amplitudes, as noted on
TBoltMon, are divided in two with the 2 way splitter and non existent with
the 4 way splitter.

I fired up my Z3816A, hooked it directly to the antenna and all was fine
with good signal amplitudes as noted on SatStat. I then put the splitter in
the circuit and, again, all was fine. I then hooked up the TBolt to another
port of the splitter and, now, it too is fine. Seems it is all OK as long
as the Z3816A is connected. I tried substituting a 50 ohm load on the ports
but the TBolt problem came back. Might this be insufficient current for the
amplifier and antenna from the TBolt? The 'Antenna Open' and 'Antenna
Short' indications on TBoltMon are fine no matter how or what is connected.

With the TBolt connected, I get about 4.5 VDC to the antenna from the
splitter. I forgot to measure with the Z3816A connected.

Thanks for the insight. My formerly thought dead splitters are, in fact,
fine.

I'll have to try adding an external supply to the splitter and see if that
fixes the problem. Then, again, if just using the TBolt alone, why have a
splitter? I guess the answer is that it is nice to have an easily available
connection for other projects.

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of SAIDJACK@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:20 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Symmetricom 58535A and 58536A

Hi Joe,

I have the same problem with my Thunderbolt even though my splitter works
well. Not sure why. This is especially so if I cascade the Agilent unit
with a passive splitter, I can never get the Thunderbolt to lock up.

I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's
receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter.

M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units
are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series.

Do you have another receiver you can try?

In terms of schematics, it's really straight forward, see the Mini-circuits
website for sample schematics for the ERA part, the agilent unit has
pretty much the same setup.

The amp is followed by a resistive splitter, and possibly a resistive
attenuator (on the 2-port version). Then a cavity filter, then the
N-Connector,
very simple, not much that can go wrong.

bye,
Said

In a message dated 10/31/2009 18:21:16 Pacific Daylight Time,
jltran@worldnet.att.net writes:

Said,

Thanks for the reply. This is certainly a starting point. A schematic
would be wonderful. I have looked and have not found one yet.

The units both provide about 4.5 VDC to the center pin when any port is
connected to my Tbolt. However, the signal amplitude, as measured by
TBoltMon, is essentially non existent on the 4 way splitter and divided by
at least 2 on the 2 way splitter. Therefore, I suspect the amplifier is
dead. Did not know about the voltage regulator. Will open one and get to
work.

Thanks,

Joe

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Said, Interesting thought. I had not considered the TBolt to be a source of a problem. I also have two HP 58517A 8 way splitters, one that gets it's DC for the antenna through an SMB connector and one that gets it's DC from port 1. They seem to work fine with the TBolt. I also have a Symmetricom 090-58537-01 4 way splitter and it works fine with the TBolt as well. By this, I mean place the splitter between the TBolt and the antenna with nothing else connected. When I do this with the 58535A or 58536A, signal amplitudes, as noted on TBoltMon, are divided in two with the 2 way splitter and non existent with the 4 way splitter. I fired up my Z3816A, hooked it directly to the antenna and all was fine with good signal amplitudes as noted on SatStat. I then put the splitter in the circuit and, again, all was fine. I then hooked up the TBolt to another port of the splitter and, now, it too is fine. Seems it is all OK as long as the Z3816A is connected. I tried substituting a 50 ohm load on the ports but the TBolt problem came back. Might this be insufficient current for the amplifier and antenna from the TBolt? The 'Antenna Open' and 'Antenna Short' indications on TBoltMon are fine no matter how or what is connected. With the TBolt connected, I get about 4.5 VDC to the antenna from the splitter. I forgot to measure with the Z3816A connected. Thanks for the insight. My formerly thought dead splitters are, in fact, fine. I'll have to try adding an external supply to the splitter and see if that fixes the problem. Then, again, if just using the TBolt alone, why have a splitter? I guess the answer is that it is nice to have an easily available connection for other projects. Thanks again everyone for all the help. Joe -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of SAIDJACK@aol.com Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:20 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Symmetricom 58535A and 58536A Hi Joe, I have the same problem with my Thunderbolt even though my splitter works well. Not sure why. This is especially so if I cascade the Agilent unit with a passive splitter, I can never get the Thunderbolt to lock up. I think the added noise of the Amp may play funny with the Thunderbolt's receiver, and there may not be anything wrong with your splitter. M12M's and uBlox receiver's don't have a problem at all, even if two units are cascaded. They do start to have issues with three splitters in series. Do you have another receiver you can try? In terms of schematics, it's really straight forward, see the Mini-circuits website for sample schematics for the ERA part, the agilent unit has pretty much the same setup. The amp is followed by a resistive splitter, and possibly a resistive attenuator (on the 2-port version). Then a cavity filter, then the N-Connector, very simple, not much that can go wrong. bye, Said In a message dated 10/31/2009 18:21:16 Pacific Daylight Time, jltran@worldnet.att.net writes: Said, Thanks for the reply. This is certainly a starting point. A schematic would be wonderful. I have looked and have not found one yet. The units both provide about 4.5 VDC to the center pin when any port is connected to my Tbolt. However, the signal amplitude, as measured by TBoltMon, is essentially non existent on the 4 way splitter and divided by at least 2 on the 2 way splitter. Therefore, I suspect the amplifier is dead. Did not know about the voltage regulator. Will open one and get to work. Thanks, Joe _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP/Symmetricom 58535A and 58536A