Denmark in the Century of the fruitbat
As some of you may recall, legal time in Denmark is "the mean solar
time of the 15th eastern longitude", because nobody got around to
update the "Law of Time" from 1893 which said so.
(See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRz-Dl60Lfc)
Today, finally, the government proposed new law which says which
will say:
"Danish normal time will follow UTC plus one hour"
If ratified, the law will take effect on March 26 2023 at 02:00.
The law does not say if 02:00 is according to the old or the new
law, which according to current Bulletin A will differ by 22.68
milliseconds by then.
Related to this, the Danish Institute of Fundamental Metrology
received a grant last year to implement and distribute this new
legal timescale and to contribute it to BIPM.
DFM went shopping at T4, and have spent half a year getting to know
their new maser, which they now report to BIPM as UTC(DFM):
https://webtai.bipm.org/ftp/pub/tai/Circular-T/cirthtm/cirt.420.html
At some point soonish, they will also start to distribute their
timescale with NTP and PTP, at which point my 25 year long career
as unofficial danish provider of illegal time will come to an end.
Related to that I note with some sadness, that my own time-nut
activities have taken a back-seat to my involvement in datamuseum.dk.
As a result, I am starting feel a bit guilty about "hoarding"
time-nut kit, which I never find time do something with, and will
therefore entertain fair offers from fellow time-nuts on:
one HP5065
Has been running continuosly for five years.
one HP5065
Probably works.
The synthesizer has been "repaired" by replacing it with a small
microcontroller to produce the correct frequency, but I have
not had it running for a long time with that repair. Has been
powered off for the last three or four years.
One HP5370B
With Johns CPU upgrade
One HP5359A
Does not seem to start now. It used to.
FE408 (15MHz)
Austron 1150 OCXO (5MHz)
Worked last I used it.
IsoTemp OCXO118-20
9.999933 MHz - (DMTD candidate!)
Send me private email if you are interested...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
What is “John’s CPU upgrade” for the HP-5370B? Maybe I need one of those.
Jeremy
On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 12:57 PM Poul-Henning Kamp via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
As some of you may recall, legal time in Denmark is "the mean solar
time of the 15th eastern longitude", because nobody got around to
update the "Law of Time" from 1893 which said so.
(See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRz-Dl60Lfc)
Today, finally, the government proposed new law which says which
will say:
"Danish normal time will follow UTC plus one hour"
If ratified, the law will take effect on March 26 2023 at 02:00.
The law does not say if 02:00 is according to the old or the new
law, which according to current Bulletin A will differ by 22.68
milliseconds by then.
Related to this, the Danish Institute of Fundamental Metrology
received a grant last year to implement and distribute this new
legal timescale and to contribute it to BIPM.
DFM went shopping at T4, and have spent half a year getting to know
their new maser, which they now report to BIPM as UTC(DFM):
https://webtai.bipm.org/ftp/pub/tai/Circular-T/cirthtm/cirt.420.html
At some point soonish, they will also start to distribute their
timescale with NTP and PTP, at which point my 25 year long career
as unofficial danish provider of illegal time will come to an end.
Related to that I note with some sadness, that my own time-nut
activities have taken a back-seat to my involvement in datamuseum.dk.
As a result, I am starting feel a bit guilty about "hoarding"
time-nut kit, which I never find time do something with, and will
therefore entertain fair offers from fellow time-nuts on:
one HP5065
Has been running continuosly for five years.
one HP5065
Probably works.
The synthesizer has been "repaired" by replacing it with a small
microcontroller to produce the correct frequency, but I have
not had it running for a long time with that repair. Has been
powered off for the last three or four years.
One HP5370B
With Johns CPU upgrade
One HP5359A
Does not seem to start now. It used to.
FE408 (15MHz)
Austron 1150 OCXO (5MHz)
Worked last I used it.
IsoTemp OCXO118-20
9.999933 MHz - (DMTD candidate!)
Send me private email if you are interested...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Jeremy Nichols
Sent from my iPad 6.
I have no idea if you can still get them.
But its a complete new cpu using a modern Beage Board thats linux based.
It allows typical modern access methods like Ethernet.
Think they were $80 at the time about 5 years ago.
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 9:12 AM Jeremy Nichols via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
What is “John’s CPU upgrade” for the HP-5370B? Maybe I need one of those.
Jeremy
On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 12:57 PM Poul-Henning Kamp via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
As some of you may recall, legal time in Denmark is "the mean solar
time of the 15th eastern longitude", because nobody got around to
update the "Law of Time" from 1893 which said so.
(See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRz-Dl60Lfc)
Today, finally, the government proposed new law which says which
will say:
"Danish normal time will follow UTC plus one hour"
If ratified, the law will take effect on March 26 2023 at 02:00.
The law does not say if 02:00 is according to the old or the new
law, which according to current Bulletin A will differ by 22.68
milliseconds by then.
Related to this, the Danish Institute of Fundamental Metrology
received a grant last year to implement and distribute this new
legal timescale and to contribute it to BIPM.
DFM went shopping at T4, and have spent half a year getting to know
their new maser, which they now report to BIPM as UTC(DFM):
https://webtai.bipm.org/ftp/pub/tai/Circular-T/cirthtm/cirt.420.html
At some point soonish, they will also start to distribute their
timescale with NTP and PTP, at which point my 25 year long career
as unofficial danish provider of illegal time will come to an end.
Related to that I note with some sadness, that my own time-nut
activities have taken a back-seat to my involvement in datamuseum.dk.
As a result, I am starting feel a bit guilty about "hoarding"
time-nut kit, which I never find time do something with, and will
therefore entertain fair offers from fellow time-nuts on:
one HP5065
Has been running continuosly for five years.
one HP5065
Probably works.
The synthesizer has been "repaired" by replacing it with a small
microcontroller to produce the correct frequency, but I have
not had it running for a long time with that repair. Has been
powered off for the last three or four years.
One HP5370B
With Johns CPU upgrade
One HP5359A
Does not seem to start now. It used to.
FE408 (15MHz)
Austron 1150 OCXO (5MHz)
Worked last I used it.
IsoTemp OCXO118-20
9.999933 MHz - (DMTD candidate!)
Send me private email if you are interested...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
incompetence.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Jeremy Nichols
Sent from my iPad 6.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Jeremy Nichols via time-nuts writes:
What is “John’s CPU upgrade” for the HP-5370B? Maybe I need one of those.
http://www.jks.com/5370/5370.html
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Dear Poul-Henning,
On Wednesday, 25 January 2023 21:41:38 CET Poul-Henning Kamp via time-nuts
wrote:
As some of you may recall, legal time in Denmark is "the mean solar
time of the 15th eastern longitude", because nobody got around to
update the "Law of Time" from 1893 which said so.
(See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRz-Dl60Lfc)
Today, finally, the government proposed new law which says which
will say:
"Danish normal time will follow UTC plus one hour"
If ratified, the law will take effect on March 26 2023 at 02:00.
The law does not say if 02:00 is according to the old or the new
law, which according to current Bulletin A will differ by 22.68
milliseconds by then.
From the proposal, we know that it's simultaneous with the change to daylight
saving time and the change of time zones in Greenland (which also adopts UTC
right then):
"Det foreslåede ikrafttrædelsestidspunkt vil i øvrigt være
sammenfaldende med det tidspunkt i 2023, hvor både Danmark og Grønland
(bortset fra Ittoqqortoormiit på Grønlands
østkyst) overgår til sommertid." = "The proposed date of entry into force will
also be coinciding with the time in 2023, when both Denmark and Grønland
(apart from Ittoqqortoormiit on Greenland's east coast) changes to daylight
saving time."
As per directive "2000/84/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of
19 January 2001 on summer-time arrangements" the shift to summer time happens
at 01:00UTC, that fixes it. Danish legal time therefore will jump by
approximately +3599.977 seconds (i hope I got the sign right) instead of the
expected 3600 seconds at 2023-03-26T01:00 (UTC) exactly.
[UTC(DFM)]
At some point soonish, they will also start to distribute their
timescale with NTP and PTP, at which point my 25 year long career
as unofficial danish provider of illegal time will come to an end.
We are not quite there yet but hope to get that part up and running by the end
of the year.
Related to that I note with some sadness, that my own time-nut
activities have taken a back-seat to my involvement in datamuseum.dk.
I'd welcome if you visit us here at DFM some time, and have a look at our new
time lab. I know there's certainly much to learn from one of the leading NTP
experts...
Cheers,
Jürgen
Jürgen Appel via time-nuts writes:
The law does not say if 02:00 is according to the old or the new
law, which according to current Bulletin A will differ by 22.68
milliseconds by then.
From the proposal, we know that it's simultaneous with the change to daylight
saving time and the change of time zones in Greenland (which also adopts UTC
right then):
Noticed how the proposed law specifies "kl. 02.00" without seconds ?
Legal time in Denmark is only resolved in minutes, so UT1 and UTC
have always been /legally/ identical.
At some point soonish, they will also start to distribute their
timescale with NTP and PTP, at which point my 25 year long career
as unofficial danish provider of illegal time will come to an end.
We are not quite there yet but hope to get that part up and running by the end
of the year.
That's good enough for me :-)
I'd welcome if you visit us here at DFM some time, and have a look at our new
time lab. I know there's certainly much to learn from one of the leading NTP
experts...
Thanks for the invitation!
I'll give you a call when I'm in the area anyway (Your lab is a bit out of
the way from the traditional time-keeping center of Denmark :-)
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Hi,
On 1/25/23 21:41, Poul-Henning Kamp via time-nuts wrote:
As some of you may recall, legal time in Denmark is "the mean solar
time of the 15th eastern longitude", because nobody got around to
update the "Law of Time" from 1893 which said so.
(See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRz-Dl60Lfc)
Today, finally, the government proposed new law which says which
will say:
"Danish normal time will follow UTC plus one hour"
If ratified, the law will take effect on March 26 2023 at 02:00.
Congratulation! This will be a moment to celebrate!
The law does not say if 02:00 is according to the old or the new
law, which according to current Bulletin A will differ by 22.68
milliseconds by then.
I am sure I can match both events with the same toast.
Related to this, the Danish Institute of Fundamental Metrology
received a grant last year to implement and distribute this new
legal timescale and to contribute it to BIPM.
DFM went shopping at T4, and have spent half a year getting to know
their new maser, which they now report to BIPM as UTC(DFM):
https://webtai.bipm.org/ftp/pub/tai/Circular-T/cirthtm/cirt.420.htm
Their new guy Jürgen is also very friendly and eager to work with the
community. Talked to him in Paris.
I applaud and congratulate them on reaching this step!
At some point soonish, they will also start to distribute their
timescale with NTP and PTP, at which point my 25 year long career
as unofficial danish provider of illegal time will come to an end.
Maybe we should do some unofficial handing over of the torch? :)
Regardless, many thanks for assisting the Danish society by providing a
time-server.
Related to that I note with some sadness, that my own time-nut
activities have taken a back-seat to my involvement in datamuseum.dk.
As a result, I am starting feel a bit guilty about "hoarding"
time-nut kit, which I never find time do something with, and will
therefore entertain fair offers from fellow time-nuts on:
Oh, tempting!
Cheers,
Magnus
Dear time-nuts:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2023 21:41:38 CET Poul-Henning Kamp via time-nuts
wrote:
[...]
Today, finally, the government proposed new law which says which
will say:
"Danish normal time will follow UTC plus one hour"
If ratified, the law will take effect on March 26 2023 at 02:00.
The law does not say if 02:00 is according to the old or the new
law, which according to current Bulletin A will differ by 22.68
milliseconds by then.
The law has passed folketinget on 2023-03-14 and is in effect since Sunday
night: We all survived the unusual 25.46 ms discontinuity in the legal time
scale, (obscured by the additional 3600 s jump due to daylight-saving time)
with just the normal jet-lag feelings.
At some point soonish, they will also start to distribute their
timescale with NTP and PTP, at which point my 25 year long career
as unofficial danish provider of illegal time will come to an end.
Given the above occasion, I now proudly present DFM's shiny new NTP / NTS
server to this honorable community here, which will be serving UTC(DFM) time
with a source accuracy of << 1 µs, dwarfed by the usual internet link
asymmetries to wherever you all are located.
The server can be reached both for NTP and NTS at
time.dfm.dk
(e. g. by adding
server time.dfm.dk nts iburst
to your chrony-configuration). An official announcement will be following during
the next few days when our webpage is ready. Also, don't be alarmed if the NTS
key changes during the following days.
For PTP access to UTC(DFM), one still will have to wait a bit longer...
Poul-Henning, I hope you will continue to follow the development and only
really stop time-serving Denmark after we have sufficiently proven that we are
worthy of carrying on your legacy ;-).
Cheers,
Jürgen
Jürgen Appel via time-nuts writes:
Given the above occasion, I now proudly present DFM's shiny new NTP / NTS
server to this honorable community here, which will be serving UTC(DFM) time
with a source accuracy of << 1 µs, dwarfed by the usual internet link
asymmetries to wherever you all are located.
The server can be reached both for NTP and NTS at
time.dfm.dk
Whee! & Welcome :-)
I'm seeing a 150±80µs delta to gps.dix.dk from two well-connected machines.
I have upgraded FreeBSD on gps.dix.dk a couple of times, without
recalibrating the packet-processing delay, and the poor little
Soekris NET4501 is close to capacity, so I'm not alarmed :-)
Poul-Henning, I hope you will continue to follow the development and only
really stop time-serving Denmark after we have sufficiently proven that we are
worthy of carrying on your legacy ;-).
The gps.dix.dk hardware is more than 20 years old, but as long as it ticks,
it will keep ticking :-)
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.