Maintaining boatanchors (was Capacitor Failures)
I buy a lot of 10-20 year old test and other gear. When I try to get info
on some things the reaction is usually, "Oh, we havn't made that thing for
AGES now. It turns out "ages" is anything over about 3 months. "We now
have the xxxx model which is SOO much better than that old POS, and it's
only $25,000 more w/o options".
At that point I ask to speak to the oldest engineer or srevice tech.
SIGH!!!
BTW, I have started and joined a number of Yahoo Groups because sharing
and pooling info is now easy electronically, and in many cases is the only
source of information, other than suppliers of scanned or copied manuals,
like Artek Media.
FWIW,
-John
================
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 02:44:51PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
Very true, except it's more like 5-10 years.
These days John is absolutely right... likely none of the
developers, none of the equipment, perhaps not even the corporate
shell of the division or department that designed the product and
wrote the software survives. Probably the source code was thrown
out with the old servers that were sold for scrap... or just carted off
to be shredded with all the other paper and electronic records...
Horror stories abound about organizations that need to make some
minor patch or change to source code of a popular product for some
important customer even just a few years after its release and nobody
can find the right source code or the right build environment
(compilers, libraries, OS etc and the hardware they ran on) or if they
can be found it takes many many hours of expensive time and talent to
reconstruct the right stuff to actually make a code image that matches
what is shipping.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass
02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole -
in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now
either."
On 10/24/2010 06:02 PM, J. Forster wrote:
I buy a lot of 10-20 year old test and other gear. When I try to get info
on some things the reaction is usually, "Oh, we havn't made that thing for
AGES now. It turns out "ages" is anything over about 3 months. "We now
have the xxxx model which is SOO much better than that old POS, and it's
only $25,000 more w/o options".
At that point I ask to speak to the oldest engineer or srevice tech.
SIGH!!!
There is an issue of fatigue that adds to the situation. Now that they
FINALY have done away with that old box somebody comes and ask for it,
and for meager motivation in money...
Cheers,
Magnus
It was my impression that many HP (and Tek, PAR and others) Field Offices
had full manual sets for everythng they supported. I got a hardware fiche
manual for an HP total station from the Boston office.
Best,
-John
==============
Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:
Approve it? I bet most manufacturers can't even FIND the code for
equipment designed more than 25 years ago. Note that HP has had to
rely on the kindness of strangers for copies of its older manuals.
In the old days, the manuals were typeset by some outside service,
and they maintained the manual. There was nothing maintained at
HP, so when the product was discontinued, the outside service no
longer received orders for manuals, and they threw away their
stuff. The only documentation at HP itself were actual copies of
manuals, that had to be purchased from the outside service. It
was no one's job to save obsolete manuals, even at the division
that wrote them. Some HP libraries collected whatever manuals
were donated and tried to archive them. But there was no guarantee
any particular manual would get donated. And then the libraries
ran low on space and had to purge. Etc.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.
Actually, I've found that some old timers are delighted to chat about
older gear with somebody who still appreciates it.
The newbies are usually far less than helpful.
-John
===============
On 10/24/2010 06:02 PM, J. Forster wrote:
I buy a lot of 10-20 year old test and other gear. When I try to get
info
on some things the reaction is usually, "Oh, we havn't made that thing
for
AGES now. It turns out "ages" is anything over about 3 months. "We now
have the xxxx model which is SOO much better than that old POS, and it's
only $25,000 more w/o options".
At that point I ask to speak to the oldest engineer or srevice tech.
SIGH!!!
There is an issue of fatigue that adds to the situation. Now that they
FINALY have done away with that old box somebody comes and ask for it,
and for meager motivation in money...
Cheers,
Magnus
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
At least for us the process goes like:
- Customer wants more than what's in the card file on in the electronic record system
- Decision is made about how bad they want it
- Engineer (not a tech) is assigned to dig the paper data up
- A guess is made about which of many thousands of boxes might have the info in it
- A request is put in to retrieve the most likely dozen boxes from off site storage
- The boxes are gone through looking for the information
- loop through steps 4,5,6 how ever many times needed
- The data is re-formated so it's readable and rational
- Out it goes
The whole process runs 1 to 4 weeks depending ...
Bob
On Oct 24, 2010, at 12:02 PM, J. Forster wrote:
I buy a lot of 10-20 year old test and other gear. When I try to get info
on some things the reaction is usually, "Oh, we havn't made that thing for
AGES now. It turns out "ages" is anything over about 3 months. "We now
have the xxxx model which is SOO much better than that old POS, and it's
only $25,000 more w/o options".
At that point I ask to speak to the oldest engineer or srevice tech.
SIGH!!!
BTW, I have started and joined a number of Yahoo Groups because sharing
and pooling info is now easy electronically, and in many cases is the only
source of information, other than suppliers of scanned or copied manuals,
like Artek Media.
FWIW,
-John
================
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 02:44:51PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
Very true, except it's more like 5-10 years.
These days John is absolutely right... likely none of the
developers, none of the equipment, perhaps not even the corporate
shell of the division or department that designed the product and
wrote the software survives. Probably the source code was thrown
out with the old servers that were sold for scrap... or just carted off
to be shredded with all the other paper and electronic records...
Horror stories abound about organizations that need to make some
minor patch or change to source code of a popular product for some
important customer even just a few years after its release and nobody
can find the right source code or the right build environment
(compilers, libraries, OS etc and the hardware they ran on) or if they
can be found it takes many many hours of expensive time and talent to
reconstruct the right stuff to actually make a code image that matches
what is shipping.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass
02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole -
in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now
either."
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I've found engineers tend to be squirrels. A number of times they've said
to me "I'll look in my files". They will often either scan it for me or
let me borrow the original informally so I can Xerox it locally.
IMO, going through Sales or making an "official" request costs a bunch and
ir rarely successful. It's also worth asking "do you remember any major
customers of this unit?>"
-John
===============
Hi
At least for us the process goes like:
- Customer wants more than what's in the card file on in the electronic
record system - Decision is made about how bad they want it
- Engineer (not a tech) is assigned to dig the paper data up
- A guess is made about which of many thousands of boxes might have
the info in it - A request is put in to retrieve the most likely dozen boxes from off
site storage - The boxes are gone through looking for the information
- loop through steps 4,5,6 how ever many times needed
- The data is re-formated so it's readable and rational
- Out it goes
The whole process runs 1 to 4 weeks depending ...
Bob
On Oct 24, 2010, at 12:02 PM, J. Forster wrote:
I buy a lot of 10-20 year old test and other gear. When I try to get
info
on some things the reaction is usually, "Oh, we havn't made that thing
for
AGES now. It turns out "ages" is anything over about 3 months. "We now
have the xxxx model which is SOO much better than that old POS, and it's
only $25,000 more w/o options".
At that point I ask to speak to the oldest engineer or srevice tech.
SIGH!!!
BTW, I have started and joined a number of Yahoo Groups because sharing
and pooling info is now easy electronically, and in many cases is the
only
source of information, other than suppliers of scanned or copied
manuals,
like Artek Media.
FWIW,
-John
================
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 02:44:51PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
Very true, except it's more like 5-10 years.
These days John is absolutely right... likely none of the
developers, none of the equipment, perhaps not even the corporate
shell of the division or department that designed the product and
wrote the software survives. Probably the source code was thrown
out with the old servers that were sold for scrap... or just carted off
to be shredded with all the other paper and electronic records...
Horror stories abound about organizations that need to make some
minor patch or change to source code of a popular product for some
important customer even just a few years after its release and nobody
can find the right source code or the right build environment
(compilers, libraries, OS etc and the hardware they ran on) or if they
can be found it takes many many hours of expensive time and talent to
reconstruct the right stuff to actually make a code image that matches
what is shipping.
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston,
Mass
02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted
pole -
in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now
either."
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
This makes me re-think arguing with my wife about tossing the 15 linear feet of three ring binders full of systems documentation sitting in the basement.
But not for long. I'll keep what I don't have electronically I guess, but the SunOS 2.2 manual set can totally go in the trash.
The field engineering manuals on the other hand, all stay. I actually used one from the early 80's a few weeks ago to build a discrete stepper motor controller rather than order the newfangled ic.
On Oct 24, 2010, at 1:03 PM, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
ask to speak to the oldest engineer or srevice tech.
I've encountered an HP5345A (prefix 2040A) that was apparently
originally part of an HP5390A frequency stability analyzer (prefix
2036A). It has a factory label (No. 05345-80023) indicating that it
has a "modified front end." I have not seen anything in the 5345A or
5390A documentation to suggest what might have been changed in the
front end. Does anyone here know?
So far, the 5345A appears to work normally, but I have not
characterized its sensitivity or triggering performance. The 10811
oscillator does seem to be a cut above the others I have in terms of
stability -- I don't know if this was intentional or accidental.
Thank you,
Charles