Engineering Council or Engineering Steering Committee (ESC) - where art thou?
Hi all,
in July 2017 Kent James proposed to established an "Engineering Council"
(or it was suggested to call it Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)):
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/tb-planning/2017-July/005610.html
Personally I think, since we already have a Council, ESC is the better name.
As far as I can see, for over a year nothing has happened apart from the
establishment of yet another mailing list maildev@lists.thunderbird.net.
So I suggest to establish this ESC now and with the following members:
Philipp Kewisch, Council chairman and Calendar module owner and frequent
contributor
MakeMyDay, Calendar peer and frequent contributor
Geoff Lankow, Thunderbird staff, jack and master of all trades ;-)
Magnus Melin, Thunderbird module owner
Richard Marti, Theme owner and dispensable bustage fixer
Aceman, Thunderbird peer and frequent contributor
Jorg K, Thunderbird and Mailnews peer, bustage fighter
Patrick Cloke, IM module owner
Alta88, Feed peer
Ben Campbell, Thunderbird staff.
Let me know if I've forgotten someone.
This is basically the same list as
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Core_Team, but with Kent, Aleth,
Aryx and Tooru removed and two new arrivals added.
The ESC should also be able to vote on contentious bug, like some with
an ongoing UI discussion which are blocked by lack of consensus.
Just to make this problem very apparent, I've just closed two bugs as
WONTFIX, where no consensus can be reached:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683809 - Quickfilter to
find untagged messages
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690644 - Removal of
text/background colour in compose.
Maybe there are more.
Jörg.
On 8/17/2018 9:08 AM, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
Personally I think, since we already have a Council, ESC is the better
name.
Yes. I was just considering this thought earlier today. Let's avoid
confusion. As a non-member I would ask you anything other than
"Council" in the name. "Cats"? :)
"comitee", then :-)
Am 17. August 2018 18:02:36 MESZ schrieb Wayne Mery vseerror@lehigh.edu:
On 8/17/2018 9:08 AM, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
Personally I think, since we already have a Council, ESC is the
better
name.
Yes. I was just considering this thought earlier today. Let's avoid
confusion. As a non-member I would ask you anything other than
"Council" in the name. "Cats"? :)
--
Sent from my phone. Please excuse the brevity.
I think this sounds great. We have a number of things that should be
priorities of this committee. In my mind the future of how add-ons work
should be a big priority of this group.
Ryan Sipes
Community Manager
Thunderbird
On 8/17/18 11:27 AM, Ben Bucksch wrote:
"comitee", then :-)
Am 17. August 2018 18:02:36 MESZ schrieb Wayne Mery
vseerror@lehigh.edu:
On 8/17/2018 9:08 AM, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
Personally I think, since we already have a Council, ESC is the
better name.
Yes. I was just considering this thought earlier today. Let's
avoid confusion. As a non-member I would ask you anything other
than "Council" in the name. "Cats"? :)
--
Sent from my phone. Please excuse the brevity.
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
On 17/08/2018 20:31, Ryan Sipes wrote:
I think this sounds great. We have a number of things that should be
priorities of this committee. In my mind the future of how add-ons
work should be a big priority of this group.
Sorry about the cross posting. As Ben wrote on tb-planning, the ESC has
various roles.
Deciding the future of key components is one of them. Add-ons, XUL/XBL
replacement are some of the issues.
I'd like to get Alta88 involved in the ESC since he's done some work on
XUL replacement, see
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1468167#c1
https://bug1468167.bmoattachments.org/attachment.cgi?id=8985174
Maybe after a year of hibernation the establishment of the ESC can now
finally take place.
Jörg.
P.S.: I think a consensus about the add-on question already exists and
is vaguely reflected at
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Add-ons_Guide_63.
That is: Keep existing XUL + overlay add-ons (mostly) going with the use
of the C-C-cooked overlay loader, move add-ons to be bootstrapped or the
future replacement of bootstrapped add-ons or to WebExtensions otherwise.
Sounds pretty good to me.
Regarding scope, I think you misunderstood the intention of the group.
It's not about decisions in individual bugs, it's about the larger picture.
-Magnus
On 17-08-2018 16:08, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
Hi all,
in July 2017 Kent James proposed to established an "Engineering
Council" (or it was suggested to call it Engineering Steering
Committee (ESC)):
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/tb-planning/2017-July/005610.html
Personally I think, since we already have a Council, ESC is the better
name.
As far as I can see, for over a year nothing has happened apart from
the establishment of yet another mailing list
maildev@lists.thunderbird.net.
So I suggest to establish this ESC now and with the following members:
Philipp Kewisch, Council chairman and Calendar module owner and
frequent contributor
MakeMyDay, Calendar peer and frequent contributor
Geoff Lankow, Thunderbird staff, jack and master of all trades ;-)
Magnus Melin, Thunderbird module owner
Richard Marti, Theme owner and dispensable bustage fixer
Aceman, Thunderbird peer and frequent contributor
Jorg K, Thunderbird and Mailnews peer, bustage fighter
Patrick Cloke, IM module owner
Alta88, Feed peer
Ben Campbell, Thunderbird staff.
Let me know if I've forgotten someone.
This is basically the same list as
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Core_Team, but with Kent, Aleth,
Aryx and Tooru removed and two new arrivals added.
The ESC should also be able to vote on contentious bug, like some
with an ongoing UI discussion which are blocked by lack of consensus.
Just to make this problem very apparent, I've just closed two bugs as
WONTFIX, where no consensus can be reached:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683809 - Quickfilter to
find untagged messages
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690644 - Removal of
text/background colour in compose.
Maybe there are more.
Jörg.
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net
On 17/08/2018 22:57, Magnus Melin wrote:
Regarding scope, I think you misunderstood the intention of the group.
It's not about decisions in individual bugs, it's about the larger
picture.
Conflict resolution is one of the tasks, hopefully only a marginal one.
Jörg.
On 17/08/2018 14:08, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
in July 2017 Kent James proposed to established an "Engineering
Council" (or it was suggested to call it Engineering Steering
Committee (ESC)):
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/tb-planning/2017-July/005610.html
Personally I think, since we already have a Council, ESC is the better
name.
As far as I can see, for over a year nothing has happened apart from
the establishment of yet another mailing list
maildev@lists.thunderbird.net.
So I suggest to establish this ESC now and with the following members:
As someone who is a TB user and who observes TB development from the
outside, this seems like a very good idea indeed.
A few points:
(1) Is there a mission statement/constitution for the current Council? I
don't mean for the Thunderbird project as a whole but specifically for
the Council?
(2) The ESC (I think "Committee" is best) should also have a clear and
unambiguous mission statement or constitution.
(3) Perhaps the ESC mission statement/constitution should include a
clause on composition of the Committee to ensure a balanced make-up in
future.
(4) Addon/extension authors should be explicitly represented on the ESC.
Extensions were and are key to Thunderbird's success, both historically
and in the future.
(5) Perhaps details of the existing Council and the ESC (if and when it
is formed) should be listed in the 'Get Involved' section of
thunderbird.net.
(6) And apologies if I have lost track or not noticed, but is there a
clear and unambiguous roadmap for Thunderbird development, including
reliance (or lack of) on Firefox core code? There were plenty of
discussions at one time but I did not see (or perhaps just did not
notice) a clear resolution on a way forward. Presumably the ESC will be
responsible for this if such a decision has not yet been made.
--
Mark Rousell
On 18-08-2018 00:22, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
On 17/08/2018 22:57, Magnus Melin wrote:
Regarding scope, I think you misunderstood the intention of the
group. It's not about decisions in individual bugs, it's about the
larger picture.
Conflict resolution is one of the tasks, hopefully only a marginal one.
On larger directions sure, but not really on scope for individual bugs.
Well, perhaps in case the bug has some urgency. But sometimes a
"conflict" does not need a quick resolution, and it's easier to resolve
in a way pleasing all parties later on when circumstances are different.
-Magnus
After re-reading Kent's original message, which is very well put, I
think the Thunderbird Council should go back and revisit this subject
before proceeding.
The main emphasis here is not about defining a group, it's about
including key players in technical discussions and decisions.
-Magnus
On 17-08-2018 16:08, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
Hi all,
in July 2017 Kent James proposed to established an "Engineering
Council" (or it was suggested to call it Engineering Steering
Committee (ESC)):
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/tb-planning/2017-July/005610.html
Personally I think, since we already have a Council, ESC is the better
name.
As far as I can see, for over a year nothing has happened apart from
the establishment of yet another mailing list
maildev@lists.thunderbird.net.
So I suggest to establish this ESC now and with the following members:
Philipp Kewisch, Council chairman and Calendar module owner and
frequent contributor
MakeMyDay, Calendar peer and frequent contributor
Geoff Lankow, Thunderbird staff, jack and master of all trades ;-)
Magnus Melin, Thunderbird module owner
Richard Marti, Theme owner and dispensable bustage fixer
Aceman, Thunderbird peer and frequent contributor
Jorg K, Thunderbird and Mailnews peer, bustage fighter
Patrick Cloke, IM module owner
Alta88, Feed peer
Ben Campbell, Thunderbird staff.
Let me know if I've forgotten someone.
This is basically the same list as
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Core_Team, but with Kent, Aleth,
Aryx and Tooru removed and two new arrivals added.
The ESC should also be able to vote on contentious bug, like some
with an ongoing UI discussion which are blocked by lack of consensus.
Just to make this problem very apparent, I've just closed two bugs as
WONTFIX, where no consensus can be reached:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683809 - Quickfilter to
find untagged messages
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690644 - Removal of
text/background colour in compose.
Maybe there are more.
Jörg.
Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net