Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create 500 MHz
Re: Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create 500 MHz
Richard -
I can think of several ways to do this, but "easy" depends upon your skill set and the equipment you have. Actually - none of these are easy!
I have done a lot of synthesizers and sources over the years and here are some thoughts; hopefully helpful.
-
A straight class C multiplier chain. If you use push pull odd order multipleirs and push push doublers to cancel out the fundamentals, the inter stage filtering becomes easier. Requires discrete old-fashioned RF Design methods and perhaps a filter design program. X5 filter, X2, filter, X5, filter will do it, with low power bi-polars, but the filters have to be multi-pole to keep the spurs down.
-
Use one of the modern phase lock loop chips with internal VCO from National, Analog Devices, and others. The down side is that most of these require an associated PIC or similar processor to load - even for one frequency. However for one with the required software skills this would most likely be the lowest cost and most straight forward approach.
-
Cook up your own PLL with discrete pre-scaler, phase detector and loop amplifier. Easier than #1, harder than #2 except for the software advantaged.
-
Mix down to IF PLL - eliminates the high speed counters but required a low output multiplier to create a reference line near 500 MHz. Complex.
Any of the PLL schemes will have fewer non-harmonic spurs and some makers web sites have tools to help with the design of the loop filter.
-73 john k6iql
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-request time-nuts-request@febo.com
To: time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 12:00 pm
Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 106, Issue 72
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Today's Topics:
- Re: Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create 500 MHz
reference from one? (Richard Solomon) - Re: A Time-Nut's Worst Nightmare (Tony Finch)
- Embarrassing stuff... (Burt I. Weiner)
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 08:16:59 -0700
From: Richard Solomon w1ksz@earthlink.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create
500 MHz reference from one?
Message-ID: 5193A6EB.60203@earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
There are a number of phase-locked oscillators over on the "evil empire"
that might do,
but if you need exactly 500 MHz, you might not find that one so easily.
I found one that had outputs of 72.5, 725 and 7,975 MHz that locks to my
GPSDO. Very
useful for checking Frequency Counters, Service Monitors and the like.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
On 5/15/2013 5:14 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
15/05/2013 13:13
Is there any fairly easy way to multiply the output of a Thunderbolt to
have a 500MHz reference at about 4dBm? Thanks.
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:29:28 +0100
From: Tony Finch dot@dotat.at
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A Time-Nut's Worst Nightmare
Message-ID:
alpine.LSU.2.00.1305151622280.19357@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Ed Palmer ed_palmer@sasktel.net wrote:
Part of me thinks it's cute, part of me wants to kill it. :-)
Amusing! Reminds me of the Chronophage:
http://www.johnctaylor.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Clock
http://fanf.livejournal.com/98545.html
http://fanf.livejournal.com/94043.html
Note that the Wikipedia article is incorrect when it says the clock is
entirely mechanical: the clock depends on a computerized regulator which
is responsible for stopping the spring from over-driving the pendulum, and
for the erratic ticking, and for keeping it in sync with MSF every five
minutes.
Tony.
f.anthony.n.finch dot@dotat.at http://dotat.at/
Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at first.
Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or good,
occasionally poor at first.
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 08:54:45 -0700
From: "Burt I. Weiner" biwa@att.net
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Embarrassing stuff...
Message-ID: 384165.26368.bm@smtp106.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
David,
I'm sure it's nothing compared to what I did many years ago to my
Singer FM-10C Synthesizer. You tell us your story and I'll tell you
mine. You're among friends. Every time my life flashes before my
eyes it's mostly embarrassing stuff.
Burt, K6OQK
From: David Hooke dhooke@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] three cornered comparison tools
Hi All,
I've managed to blow up the DAC output on my TBOLT; it now has about
0.5V 42kHz ripple on it. I think I know how I did this, but it's too
embarrassing to share in public.
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
biwa@att.net
www.biwa.cc
K6OQK
time-nuts mailing list
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https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 106, Issue 72
Re: Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create 500 MHz
Richard -
I can think of several ways to do this, but "easy" depends upon
your skill set and the equipment you have. Actually - none of these are easy!
I have done a lot of synthesizers and sources over the years and
here are some thoughts; hopefully helpful.
- A straight class C multiplier chain. If you use push pull odd
order multipleirs and push push doublers to cancel out the
fundamentals, the inter stage filtering becomes easier. Requires
discrete old-fashioned RF Design methods and perhaps a filter design
program. X5 filter, X2, filter, X5, filter will do it, with low
power bi-polars, but the filters have to be multi-pole to keep the spurs down.
- Use one of the modern phase lock loop chips with internal VCO
from National, Analog Devices, and others. The down side is that
most of these require an associated PIC or similar processor to load
- even for one frequency. However for one with the required software
skills this would most likely be the lowest cost and most straight forward approach.
- Cook up your own PLL with discrete pre-scaler, phase detector
and loop amplifier. Easier than #1, harder than #2 except for the software advantaged.
- Mix down to IF PLL - eliminates the high speed counters but
required a low output multiplier to create a reference line near 500 MHz. Complex.
Any of the PLL schemes will have fewer non-harmonic spurs and some
makers web sites have tools to help with the design of the loop filter.
-73 john k6iql
15/05/2013 18:12
My skill level is pretty low, so was hoping a fairly cheap
commercially made solution was possible? Thanks for the ideas so far
everyone, appreciated.
Will draft out a basic description of what I am attempting to do
later, should still be working :)
--
Best Regards,
Chris Wilson.
Cheap commercial????
Expensive comercial yes. Lots of vendors who will take your money.
OK
We have more definition. Its Epay time go purchase a PTS synthesizer. I
picked them up non Epay for $100 or less. Very nice and its far less
expensive then buying new.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Chris Wilson chris@chriswilson.tv wrote:
Re: Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create 500 MHz
Richard -
I can think of several ways to do this, but "easy" depends upon
your skill set and the equipment you have. Actually - none of these are
easy!
I have done a lot of synthesizers and sources over the years and
here are some thoughts; hopefully helpful.
- A straight class C multiplier chain. If you use push pull odd
order multipleirs and push push doublers to cancel out the
fundamentals, the inter stage filtering becomes easier. Requires
discrete old-fashioned RF Design methods and perhaps a filter design
program. X5 filter, X2, filter, X5, filter will do it, with low
power bi-polars, but the filters have to be multi-pole to keep the spurs
down.
- Use one of the modern phase lock loop chips with internal VCO
from National, Analog Devices, and others. The down side is that
most of these require an associated PIC or similar processor to load
- even for one frequency. However for one with the required software
skills this would most likely be the lowest cost and most straight
forward approach.
- Cook up your own PLL with discrete pre-scaler, phase detector
and loop amplifier. Easier than #1, harder than #2 except for the
software advantaged.
- Mix down to IF PLL - eliminates the high speed counters but
required a low output multiplier to create a reference line near 500
MHz. Complex.
Any of the PLL schemes will have fewer non-harmonic spurs and some
makers web sites have tools to help with the design of the loop filter.
-73 john k6iql
15/05/2013 18:12
My skill level is pretty low, so was hoping a fairly cheap
commercially made solution was possible? Thanks for the ideas so far
everyone, appreciated.
Will draft out a basic description of what I am attempting to do
later, should still be working :)
--
Best Regards,
Chris Wilson.
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On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:05 AM, johncroos@aol.com wrote:
Re: Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create 500 MHz
- Use one of the modern phase lock loop chips with internal VCO from
National, Analog Devices, and others. The down side is that most of these
require an associated PIC or similar processor to load - even for one
frequency. However for one with the required software skills this would
most likely be the lowest cost and most straight forward approach.
Which chips to look at? I've used a 4046 but it looks like there is
something better with a digital interface that works a higher frequency.
What is the easiest to use and with affordable prices.
BTW While working with a bare PIC requires some hard to acquire skills,
new uP platforms like Arduino make software easy for just about anyone.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
I have a 500 MHz Hi-Q bandpass cavity. 15 pounds, silver plated brass.
All you need is a step recovery diode driven by the 10 MHz sq wave or
spikes, and a couple of amplifiers. Might have to keep it in a beer
cooler, but nothing's perfect :-)
Don
Chris Albertson
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:05 AM, johncroos@aol.com wrote:
Re: Trimble Thunderbolt, any easy way to create 500 MHz
- Use one of the modern phase lock loop chips with internal VCO from
National, Analog Devices, and others. The down side is that most of
these
require an associated PIC or similar processor to load - even for one
frequency. However for one with the required software skills this
would
most likely be the lowest cost and most straight forward approach.
Which chips to look at? I've used a 4046 but it looks like there is
something better with a digital interface that works a higher frequency.
What is the easiest to use and with affordable prices.
BTW While working with a bare PIC requires some hard to acquire
skills,
new uP platforms like Arduino make software easy for just about anyone.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Ghost in the Shell
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
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