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JG

Jeff Geerling

Thu, May 15, 2025 8:47 PM

I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of the Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia | 3HE14833AARA01 | 1063904601-12 transceiver)?

That module packed a U-blox GNSS receiver and an SoC capable of running NTP and PTP services for at least 12 clients, so you could deploy it directly inside a network switch! (Apparently very useful for space-constrained environments, like urban cell sites, where you might not get an extra 1U of rack space for a separate timing server).

Product page: https://www.oscilloquartz.com/en/products-and-services/osa-5401-series
Discussion on ServeTheHome forum: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/neat-gps-clock-sfp-module-20.43927/

I've been looking into smaller time servers for the fun of it (as Raspberry Pi isn't quite small enough I guess), and it would be neat if there were any others that exist that I haven't seen. I know there was discussion of some microcontroller-based timing servers using ESP32. Any that are in production?

-Jeff Geerling

I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of the Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia | 3HE14833AARA01 | 1063904601-12 transceiver)? That module packed a U-blox GNSS receiver and an SoC capable of running NTP and PTP services for at least 12 clients, so you could deploy it directly inside a network switch! (Apparently very useful for space-constrained environments, like urban cell sites, where you might not get an extra 1U of rack space for a separate timing server). Product page: https://www.oscilloquartz.com/en/products-and-services/osa-5401-series Discussion on ServeTheHome forum: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/neat-gps-clock-sfp-module-20.43927/ I've been looking into smaller time servers for the fun of it (as Raspberry Pi isn't quite small enough I guess), and it would be neat if there were any others that exist that I haven't seen. I know there was discussion of some microcontroller-based timing servers using ESP32. Any that are in production? -Jeff Geerling

E

eric@scace.org

Fri, May 16, 2025 3:56 AM

Hi Jeff —

I deploy the Time Machines TM2000B https://timemachinescorp.com/product/gps-ntpptp-network-time-server-tm2000/ GPSDO routinely wherever I need a NTP+PTP server on a network for the broadcast radio stations where I work. The TM2000C includes a 10 MHz output, useful at some transmitter sites. (More modern transmitters include their own GPSDO.)

he company’s brochure says it uses the MediaTek MT3339 chipset…. and quotes ±20 ns RMS jitter “GPS time precision”. My applications are:

maintaining audio/video digital sample synchronization within a studio complex across dozens-to-hundreds of A/V over IP sources/sinks
inter-site A/V over IP exchange over multiple WANs, where samples need to be time-stamped for error/loss recovery and content synchronization
transmitter frequency control
synchronized transmitters broadcasting on the same frequency, where the content has to be time-aligned
The TM2000B works perfectly for these needs.

I am not doing broadcast TV work; the video component gets either streamed or recorded for later distribution over the internet. Broadcast TV engineers working with more complex video multi-site applications may have precision requirements with which I am unfamiliar.

The TM2000B fits in your hand, but can be rack mounted.

Straightforward to setup. As PTP servers go, it’s pretty inexpensive (around US $550).

I have a dozen or so scattered around, and they’ve all been trouble-free.

SNMP supervision is included, but I haven’t deployed that yet.

— Eric

On May 15, 2025, at 14:47, Jeff Geerling via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of the Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia | 3HE14833AARA01 | 1063904601-12 transceiver)?

That module packed a U-blox GNSS receiver and an SoC capable of running NTP and PTP services for at least 12 clients, so you could deploy it directly inside a network switch! (Apparently very useful for space-constrained environments, like urban cell sites, where you might not get an extra 1U of rack space for a separate timing server).

Product page: https://www.oscilloquartz.com/en/products-and-services/osa-5401-series
Discussion on ServeTheHome forum: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/neat-gps-clock-sfp-module-20.43927/

I've been looking into smaller time servers for the fun of it (as Raspberry Pi isn't quite small enough I guess), and it would be neat if there were any others that exist that I haven't seen. I know there was discussion of some microcontroller-based timing servers using ESP32. Any that are in production?

-Jeff Geerling

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi Jeff — I deploy the Time Machines TM2000B <https://timemachinescorp.com/product/gps-ntpptp-network-time-server-tm2000/> GPSDO routinely wherever I need a NTP+PTP server on a network for the broadcast radio stations where I work. The TM2000C includes a 10 MHz output, useful at some transmitter sites. (More modern transmitters include their own GPSDO.) he company’s brochure says it uses the MediaTek MT3339 chipset…. and quotes ±20 ns RMS jitter “GPS time precision”. My applications are: maintaining audio/video digital sample synchronization within a studio complex across dozens-to-hundreds of A/V over IP sources/sinks inter-site A/V over IP exchange over multiple WANs, where samples need to be time-stamped for error/loss recovery and content synchronization transmitter frequency control synchronized transmitters broadcasting on the same frequency, where the content has to be time-aligned The TM2000B works perfectly for these needs. I am not doing broadcast TV work; the video component gets either streamed or recorded for later distribution over the internet. Broadcast TV engineers working with more complex video multi-site applications may have precision requirements with which I am unfamiliar. The TM2000B fits in your hand, but can be rack mounted. Straightforward to setup. As PTP servers go, it’s pretty inexpensive (around US $550). I have a dozen or so scattered around, and they’ve all been trouble-free. SNMP supervision is included, but I haven’t deployed that yet. — Eric > On May 15, 2025, at 14:47, Jeff Geerling via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of the Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia | 3HE14833AARA01 | 1063904601-12 transceiver)? > > That module packed a U-blox GNSS receiver and an SoC capable of running NTP and PTP services for at least 12 clients, so you could deploy it directly inside a network switch! (Apparently very useful for space-constrained environments, like urban cell sites, where you might not get an extra 1U of rack space for a separate timing server). > > Product page: https://www.oscilloquartz.com/en/products-and-services/osa-5401-series > Discussion on ServeTheHome forum: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/neat-gps-clock-sfp-module-20.43927/ > > I've been looking into smaller time servers for the fun of it (as Raspberry Pi isn't quite small enough I guess), and it would be neat if there were any others that exist that I haven't seen. I know there was discussion of some microcontroller-based timing servers using ESP32. Any that are in production? > > -Jeff Geerling > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

CC

Chris Caudle

Sat, May 17, 2025 9:27 PM

On Thursday, May 15, 2025 3:47:07 PM Central Daylight Time Jeff Geerling via
time-nuts wrote:

I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of the
Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia | 3HE14833AARA01 |
1063904601-12 transceiver)?

Specifically network time servers? Microchip has some small modules from the
division they got through the Symmetricom acquisition, but they are just small
GPSDO, not network servers.
https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/clock-and-timing/components/gnss-gps-disciplined

--
Chris Caudle

On Thursday, May 15, 2025 3:47:07 PM Central Daylight Time Jeff Geerling via time-nuts wrote: > I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of the > Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia | 3HE14833AARA01 | > 1063904601-12 transceiver)? Specifically network time servers? Microchip has some small modules from the division they got through the Symmetricom acquisition, but they are just small GPSDO, not network servers. https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/clock-and-timing/components/gnss-gps-disciplined -- Chris Caudle

GS

Georg Sauthoff

Mon, May 19, 2025 12:40 PM

Hello,

On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 03:47:07PM -0500, Jeff Geerling via time-nuts wrote:

I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of
the Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia |
3HE14833AARA01 | 1063904601-12 transceiver)?

That module packed a U-blox GNSS receiver and an SoC capable of
running NTP and PTP services for at least 12 clients, so you could
deploy it directly inside a network switch! (Apparently very useful
for space-constrained environments, like urban cell sites, where you
might not get an extra 1U of rack space for a separate timing server).

for space-constrained sites another option is to look into tiny time
servers that are integrated with the antenna (pole) / near the antenna.

This may be especially attractive for locations where bridging the
distance from the antenna to the switch (where you actually need the
grandmaster being attached to) via ethernet (fiber or CAT) is much
simpler than via a longish good quality antenna coax cable - or even
some kind of antenna to coax to fiber and back
converter/multiplexer/repeater system.[1]

Also, when using a fiber connection into the rack it might be considered
a second line of defence against lighting strike damages.

FWIW, the slightly larger form factor might allow for higher clock
synchronisation performance than a time server crammed into the SFP
module form factor.

Example:

OSA 5405

You can attach it to a pole near the antenna and thus work with very
short antenna coax cables.
However, it is also available in indoor versions, which is still quite
compact, i.e. the smallest model measures 10.5 cm x 10.5 cm x 2.5 cm
(220 g).

They all support a bunch of features, including PoE, 1g SFP Cage, SyncE,
Stratum 3E OCXO, 500k NTP txn/s, AES67 and G.8275.1 PTP profiles, ...

https://www.oscilloquartz.com/en/resources/downloads/data-sheets/osa-5405-series
https://www.oscilloquartz.com/-/media/oscilloquartz/resources/data-sheets/pdfs/osa-5405-series.pdf

Best regards,
Georg

[1]: Such as:

Huber+Suhner
https://www.hubersuhner.com/en/timing-synchronisation
PDF:
https://www.hubersuhner.com/c93e62b8-991c-4db9-98a1-bd9cffccb7a7
Backup:
https://www.bktel.de/index_htm_files/IND_Timing_Solution_brochure_0224_EN_A4_final.pdf
Example usage in the rack:
https://engineering.fb.com/2022/11/21/production-engineering/precision-time-protocol-at-meta/attachment/huber-suhner-gnss/

Meinberg
https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/products/optical-singlemode-gps-antenna-link.htm

--
'Time your programs before making claims about efficiency'
(Bjarne Stroustrup, The C++ Programming Language, 4th ed., p. 132, 2013)

Hello, On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 03:47:07PM -0500, Jeff Geerling via time-nuts wrote: > I was wondering if there are other tiny time servers in the vein of > the Oscilloquartz OSA 5401 (which was also sold as a Nokia | > 3HE14833AARA01 | 1063904601-12 transceiver)? > > That module packed a U-blox GNSS receiver and an SoC capable of > running NTP and PTP services for at least 12 clients, so you could > deploy it directly inside a network switch! (Apparently very useful > for space-constrained environments, like urban cell sites, where you > might not get an extra 1U of rack space for a separate timing server). for space-constrained sites another option is to look into tiny time servers that are integrated with the antenna (pole) / near the antenna. This may be especially attractive for locations where bridging the distance from the antenna to the switch (where you actually need the grandmaster being attached to) via ethernet (fiber or CAT) is much simpler than via a longish good quality antenna coax cable - or even some kind of antenna to coax to fiber and back converter/multiplexer/repeater system.[1] Also, when using a fiber connection into the rack it might be considered a second line of defence against lighting strike damages. FWIW, the slightly larger form factor might allow for higher clock synchronisation performance than a time server crammed into the SFP module form factor. Example: OSA 5405 You can attach it to a pole near the antenna and thus work with very short antenna coax cables. However, it is also available in indoor versions, which is still quite compact, i.e. the smallest model measures 10.5 cm x 10.5 cm x 2.5 cm (220 g). They all support a bunch of features, including PoE, 1g SFP Cage, SyncE, Stratum 3E OCXO, 500k NTP txn/s, AES67 and G.8275.1 PTP profiles, ... https://www.oscilloquartz.com/en/resources/downloads/data-sheets/osa-5405-series https://www.oscilloquartz.com/-/media/oscilloquartz/resources/data-sheets/pdfs/osa-5405-series.pdf Best regards, Georg [1]: Such as: Huber+Suhner https://www.hubersuhner.com/en/timing-synchronisation PDF: https://www.hubersuhner.com/c93e62b8-991c-4db9-98a1-bd9cffccb7a7 Backup: https://www.bktel.de/index_htm_files/IND_Timing_Solution_brochure_0224_EN_A4_final.pdf Example usage in the rack: https://engineering.fb.com/2022/11/21/production-engineering/precision-time-protocol-at-meta/attachment/huber-suhner-gnss/ Meinberg https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/products/optical-singlemode-gps-antenna-link.htm -- 'Time your programs before making claims about efficiency' (Bjarne Stroustrup, The C++ Programming Language, 4th ed., p. 132, 2013)

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Tiny time servers? (Like the OSA 5401 - GPS and PTP in SFP+)