Empathy List Archives

G

GHechtman@aol.com

Wed, Feb 16, 2005 6:35 PM

Hi Jim, that would be the little page 14 jobs. I suppose if you were triple paranoid about your dome lights meeting AYBC spec, these page 96 guys would work too. We don't use them in our non AYBC sensitive business.

http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/page96.html

Me, I'd e-mail the T-Town folks first or better yet ask Arlid. But on the other hand, I wouldn't be that paranoid because I think I know better. While we do not do heavy duty marine work around here, our clients definitely do not like it if bad wiring burns up their car or $400,000+ RV, or emergency services command post.

By the way, last time I checked Ancor was merely private labeling other Mfrs. stuff.
George.

Hi Jim, that would be the little page 14 jobs. I suppose if you were triple paranoid about your dome lights meeting AYBC spec, these page 96 guys would work too. We don't use them in our non AYBC sensitive business. http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/page96.html Me, I'd e-mail the T-Town folks first or better yet ask Arlid. But on the other hand, I wouldn't be that paranoid because I think I know better. While we do not do heavy duty marine work around here, our clients definitely do not like it if bad wiring burns up their car or $400,000+ RV, or emergency services command post. By the way, last time I checked Ancor was merely private labeling other Mfrs. stuff. George.

AJ

Arild Jensen

Wed, Feb 16, 2005 7:10 PM

George wrote:
Hi Jim, that would be the little page 14 jobs. I suppose if you were
triple paranoid about your dome lights meeting AYBC spec, these page 96
guys would work too. We don't use them in our non AYBC sensitive
business.

snip<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

While we do not do heavy duty marine work around here, our clients
definitely do not like it if bad wiring burns up their car or $400,000+
RV, or emergency services command post.

By the way, last time I checked Ancor was merely private labeling other
Mfrs. stuff.

REPLY
Disconnects per ABYC have two requirements that must be met.
One requirement is the 6 pounds tension test for one minute.
The second test is the low resistance of 50 milliohms.

Reputable terminal makers are aware of the need to make the mating
surfaces of the connector equivalent to the ampacity of the wires being
joined.
However I would be leery of no name cheapo terminals found in discount
stores. To see what I mean compare a good make with the cheap ones.
They have more material thickness, greater contact surface area, better
pull resistance and superior wire insulation gripping in addition to the
bare conductor crimp. The better terminals also have a tinned copper
construction while the cheap ones are either brass or some kind of cad
plated unknown metal. ( try a magnet)

Ray-Chem and Thomas&Betts were among the first companies to produce heat
shrink sleeved connectors almost forty years ago. I was using their
stuff 25 years ago on production line assemblies. Since then many other
terminal companies produce them. You may end up buying bulk at 25, 50
or 100 per pack. Still cheaper than buying ANCOR at WM.

The original; question as to round bullets versus flat spade.
Round connectors are typically used for flying leads and may have
slightly better vibration resistance. ( this is a personal observation
not supported by any stats or Mfg claims.)

Flat connectors are typically used when one part is affixed to a circuit
board. The flat spade lends itself to PCB construction and soldering
techniques. Ditto for riveted and automatic assembly on the production
line.

Arild

George wrote: Hi Jim, that would be the little page 14 jobs. I suppose if you were triple paranoid about your dome lights meeting AYBC spec, these page 96 guys would work too. We don't use them in our non AYBC sensitive business. >>>>>>>> snip<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< While we do not do heavy duty marine work around here, our clients definitely do not like it if bad wiring burns up their car or $400,000+ RV, or emergency services command post. By the way, last time I checked Ancor was merely private labeling other Mfrs. stuff. REPLY Disconnects per ABYC have two requirements that must be met. One requirement is the 6 pounds tension test for one minute. The second test is the low resistance of 50 milliohms. Reputable terminal makers are aware of the need to make the mating surfaces of the connector equivalent to the ampacity of the wires being joined. However I would be leery of no name cheapo terminals found in discount stores. To see what I mean compare a good make with the cheap ones. They have more material thickness, greater contact surface area, better pull resistance and superior wire insulation gripping in addition to the bare conductor crimp. The better terminals also have a tinned copper construction while the cheap ones are either brass or some kind of cad plated unknown metal. ( try a magnet) Ray-Chem and Thomas&Betts were among the first companies to produce heat shrink sleeved connectors almost forty years ago. I was using their stuff 25 years ago on production line assemblies. Since then many other terminal companies produce them. You may end up buying bulk at 25, 50 or 100 per pack. Still cheaper than buying ANCOR at WM. The original; question as to round bullets versus flat spade. Round connectors are typically used for flying leads and may have slightly better vibration resistance. ( this is a personal observation not supported by any stats or Mfg claims.) Flat connectors are typically used when one part is affixed to a circuit board. The flat spade lends itself to PCB construction and soldering techniques. Ditto for riveted and automatic assembly on the production line. Arild

JM

Jim McCorison

Wed, Feb 16, 2005 7:16 PM

At 01:35 PM 2/16/2005 -0500, GHechtman@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jim, that would be the little page 14 jobs. I suppose if you were
triple paranoid about your dome lights meeting AYBC spec, these page 96
guys would work too. We don't use them in our non AYBC sensitive business.

http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/page96.html

George,

The ones on page 14 appear to be standard 1/4" blade disconnects, not the
barrel style. While the connector to wire junction is waterproofed by the
heat shrink, it is hard to tell if the actual mating surfaces are afforded
protection. I didn't see anything on the link you posted for page 96 that
would be applicable, just piggy back connectors.

Granted, getting down to nitty gritty on a dome light seems silly, but if
there is a problem down the road nobody can come after you for
"sub-standard" work. One advantage of a professional using industry
recognized standards is that if there is a problem you have something
backing you.

Me, I'd e-mail the T-Town folks first or better yet ask Arlid. But on the
other hand, I wouldn't be that paranoid because I think I know better.
While we do not do heavy duty marine work around here, our clients
definitely do not like it if bad wiring burns up their car or $400,000+
RV, or emergency services command post.

I wasn't saying that T-Town didn't meet the UL spec or that their products
were substandard. I didn't even think it. And I don't think I wrote
anything that could even be implied as saying it. All I stated was that the
barrel connectors are available, and that at least on supplier, Ancor, has
ones that are stated as meeting the applicable UL standard.

Clearly T-Town could answer any questions. And while I won't speak for
Arild, my guess is that he would also look up and specify the ABYC
standards as I did. Although Arild probably knows the standards by heart by
now.

By the way, last time I checked Ancor was merely private labeling other
Mfrs. stuff.
George.

As far as I know they still are. Ancor isn't magic, just readily found
around the various suppliers and chandleries. It is a brand that most boat
owners can readily get so it makes a good example.

Jim

Jim McCorison
Starfish Marine
(619) 337-5370
http://manana.mccorison.com - Our Travels with Maqana
http://www.starfishmarine.com - My Business

At 01:35 PM 2/16/2005 -0500, GHechtman@aol.com wrote: >Hi Jim, that would be the little page 14 jobs. I suppose if you were >triple paranoid about your dome lights meeting AYBC spec, these page 96 >guys would work too. We don't use them in our non AYBC sensitive business. > >http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/page96.html George, The ones on page 14 appear to be standard 1/4" blade disconnects, not the barrel style. While the connector to wire junction is waterproofed by the heat shrink, it is hard to tell if the actual mating surfaces are afforded protection. I didn't see anything on the link you posted for page 96 that would be applicable, just piggy back connectors. Granted, getting down to nitty gritty on a dome light seems silly, but if there is a problem down the road nobody can come after you for "sub-standard" work. One advantage of a professional using industry recognized standards is that if there is a problem you have something backing you. >Me, I'd e-mail the T-Town folks first or better yet ask Arlid. But on the >other hand, I wouldn't be that paranoid because I think I know better. >While we do not do heavy duty marine work around here, our clients >definitely do not like it if bad wiring burns up their car or $400,000+ >RV, or emergency services command post. I wasn't saying that T-Town didn't meet the UL spec or that their products were substandard. I didn't even think it. And I don't think I wrote anything that could even be implied as saying it. All I stated was that the barrel connectors are available, and that at least on supplier, Ancor, has ones that are stated as meeting the applicable UL standard. Clearly T-Town could answer any questions. And while I won't speak for Arild, my guess is that he would also look up and specify the ABYC standards as I did. Although Arild probably knows the standards by heart by now. >By the way, last time I checked Ancor was merely private labeling other >Mfrs. stuff. >George. As far as I know they still are. Ancor isn't magic, just readily found around the various suppliers and chandleries. It is a brand that most boat owners can readily get so it makes a good example. Jim Jim McCorison Starfish Marine (619) 337-5370 http://manana.mccorison.com - Our Travels with Maqana http://www.starfishmarine.com - My Business

DS

Don Sorensen

Fri, Feb 18, 2005 4:27 PM

Hi Listees

My bow thruster is powered by two 8D AGM batteries in series to make up 24
volts.( I don't know the CCA or other ratings of the batteries but I believe
it was 900 amps ). One of the batteries developed a bad cell and the voltage
dropped to 8 volts. So I need to replace it.

When one of the batteries went out while cruising in wilds of northern
Vancouver Island last summer, I could not locate a replacement. I made do
with two Interstate truck starting batteries, but even tho they were rated
with high cold cranking amps they just were not as strong as the old 8Ds.
The thruster seemed to be working at about half power.

At the Seattle Boat Show I looked at Rolls, Meridian and others as
replacements. These are very expensive ($450-750 each) but carry long
guarantees and provide amps needed for the bow thruster. Also I could
replace the single bad 8D AGM if I can locate a match.

Several sales types at the show recommended using golf cart size batteries
because they are easier to handle. My 8D's need three to four people to
manhandle out of the deep bilge in the bow. Two have lay down and hang over
and into the bilge to reach the battery and lift the 140 lbs up to just
below the floor level. Then one or two are needed to receive and maneuver it
out of the opening and on to the floor. Then up the spiral stairs to the
main deck level. A real pain.

The Meridian is about the same weight as the 8D, while the Rolls can be set
in place is smaller units and bolt together. The Meridian is built to mil
specs but would be hard to find a replacement outside of Seattle. The Rolls
can be air shipped dry if a unit is needed. I probably could find a 8D at a
larger town in Canada where fishing boats visit. Golf carts seem to be
readily available.

I definitely want a long term life, reliability, and the high amperage when
I need it.

Do any of you have any comments or recommendations on the ability of the
golf cart batteries to deliver the high amps needed for the bow thruster. Or
should I go with another 8D? Or should I consider the Rolls or Meridian.

Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated.

Don Sorensen
M/V Esperanza
60 DeFever
Seattle/Dallas

Hi Listees My bow thruster is powered by two 8D AGM batteries in series to make up 24 volts.( I don't know the CCA or other ratings of the batteries but I believe it was 900 amps ). One of the batteries developed a bad cell and the voltage dropped to 8 volts. So I need to replace it. When one of the batteries went out while cruising in wilds of northern Vancouver Island last summer, I could not locate a replacement. I made do with two Interstate truck starting batteries, but even tho they were rated with high cold cranking amps they just were not as strong as the old 8Ds. The thruster seemed to be working at about half power. At the Seattle Boat Show I looked at Rolls, Meridian and others as replacements. These are very expensive ($450-750 each) but carry long guarantees and provide amps needed for the bow thruster. Also I could replace the single bad 8D AGM if I can locate a match. Several sales types at the show recommended using golf cart size batteries because they are easier to handle. My 8D's need three to four people to manhandle out of the deep bilge in the bow. Two have lay down and hang over and into the bilge to reach the battery and lift the 140 lbs up to just below the floor level. Then one or two are needed to receive and maneuver it out of the opening and on to the floor. Then up the spiral stairs to the main deck level. A real pain. The Meridian is about the same weight as the 8D, while the Rolls can be set in place is smaller units and bolt together. The Meridian is built to mil specs but would be hard to find a replacement outside of Seattle. The Rolls can be air shipped dry if a unit is needed. I probably could find a 8D at a larger town in Canada where fishing boats visit. Golf carts seem to be readily available. I definitely want a long term life, reliability, and the high amperage when I need it. Do any of you have any comments or recommendations on the ability of the golf cart batteries to deliver the high amps needed for the bow thruster. Or should I go with another 8D? Or should I consider the Rolls or Meridian. Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated. Don Sorensen M/V Esperanza 60 DeFever Seattle/Dallas

SD

Steven Dubnoff

Fri, Feb 18, 2005 6:04 PM

Do any of you have any comments or recommendations on the ability of the
golf cart batteries to deliver the high amps needed for the bow thruster. Or
should I go with another 8D? Or should I consider the Rolls or Meridian.

I don't think you want hydrogen and spilling acid in your bow. You really
want an AGM for a bowthruster.

I just replaced my start batteries with Group 31 Odyssey batteries. I did
a lot of shopping. These are amazing batteries. The Group 31 size
delivers 1090 CCA, which is equivalent to most 8-D's. They are AGM's so
they have all of the favorable characteristics that go along with those
such as not gassing, charging fast, and delivering amazing amounts of power
into heavy loads. These are the same batteries that Uncle Sam puts into
tanks, with a different label.

     http://www.odysseybatteries.com/specs.htm
     http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf

You can get them for about $250 a piece. Just tell West Coast Battery that
you are a "business".

Best,

Steve

Steve Dubnoff
1966 Willard Pilothouse
www.mvnereid.com
sdubnoff@circlesys.com

> > >Do any of you have any comments or recommendations on the ability of the >golf cart batteries to deliver the high amps needed for the bow thruster. Or >should I go with another 8D? Or should I consider the Rolls or Meridian. I don't think you want hydrogen and spilling acid in your bow. You really want an AGM for a bowthruster. I just replaced my start batteries with Group 31 Odyssey batteries. I did a lot of shopping. These are amazing batteries. The Group 31 size delivers 1090 CCA, which is equivalent to most 8-D's. They are AGM's so they have all of the favorable characteristics that go along with those such as not gassing, charging fast, and delivering amazing amounts of power into heavy loads. These are the same batteries that Uncle Sam puts into tanks, with a different label. http://www.odysseybatteries.com/specs.htm http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf You can get them for about $250 a piece. Just tell West Coast Battery that you are a "business". Best, Steve Steve Dubnoff 1966 Willard Pilothouse www.mvnereid.com sdubnoff@circlesys.com

PG

Pascal Gademer

Fri, Feb 18, 2005 6:12 PM

just received the latest issue of Passagemaker (april), long article on
powering bow thrusters, batteries, etc... if you dont' sub*cribe you may
want o get the issue at the local store...

pascal

just received the latest issue of Passagemaker (april), long article on powering bow thrusters, batteries, etc... if you dont' sub*cribe you may want o get the issue at the local store... pascal

trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

Re: T&T: Quick disconnect crimp terminals?