DS
Dennis Schetinin
Fri, May 27, 2011 4:36 AM
Hello!
I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
at ESUG 2011.
I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
discuss there?
TIA
--
Dennis Schetinin
Hello!
I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
at ESUG 2011.
I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
discuss there?
TIA
--
Dennis Schetinin
LF
Luc Fabresse
Fri, May 27, 2011 4:47 AM
Hi Dennis,
I would be interested in such a presentation.
I use TDD but I only needed mock objects in very few situations.
Perhaps, it is because they are only needed in special cases?
So yes I definitly interested in your presentation and improve my
understanding on that topic ;-)
Bests,
Luc Fabresse
http://luc.user.fr
2011/5/27 Dennis Schetinin chaetal@gmail.com
Hello!
I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
at ESUG 2011.
I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
discuss there?
TIA
--
Dennis Schetinin
Esug-list mailing list
Esug-list@lists.esug.org
http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Hi Dennis,
I would be interested in such a presentation.
I use TDD but I only needed mock objects in very few situations.
Perhaps, it is because they are only needed in special cases?
So yes I definitly interested in your presentation and improve my
understanding on that topic ;-)
Bests,
Luc Fabresse
http://luc.user.fr
2011/5/27 Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com>
> Hello!
>
> I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
> currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
> at ESUG 2011.
>
> I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
> Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
> small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
>
> Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
> seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
> the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
> years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
> was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
> sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
> specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
> Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
> of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
> totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
> used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
>
>
> So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
> to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
> discuss there?
>
> TIA
>
> --
> Dennis Schetinin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>
FS
Frank Shearar
Fri, May 27, 2011 9:38 AM
Hello!
I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
at ESUG 2011.
I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
discuss there?
TIA
Dennis Schetinin
Esug-list mailing list
Esug-list@lists.esug.org
http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Hi Dennis,
Take a look at SSpec (http://www.squeaksource.com/SSpec.html) - that
has a mocking library, and might give you a head start?
frank
On 27 May 2011 05:36, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
> I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
> currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
> at ESUG 2011.
> I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
> Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
> small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
> Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
> seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
> the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
> years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
> was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
> sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
> specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
> Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
> of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
> totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
> used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
>
> So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
> to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
> discuss there?
> TIA
> --
> Dennis Schetinin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>
FS
Francois Stephany
Fri, May 27, 2011 9:52 AM
Hi Dennis,
I would also be interested in a Mock presentation. Not really about the
concepts but practical cases. We all have needed mocks/stubs one day and
it would be interesting to see how/where people use them.
It is sometimes hard to know where to mock and how far we should mock.
Cheers,
Francois
On 27/05/11 06:36, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
Hello!
I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation
targeting at ESUG 2011.
I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll
provide a small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It
even seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be
(despite the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and
Mocks for many years in different projects with Smalltalk and other
languages. Sometimes it was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but
by now I think I have sufficient experience to state that TDD in general
and Mock Objects specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by
smalltalkers. Yes, Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools.
This damps some aspects of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for
sure does not remove them totally. More than that, I can say I was most
productive in Smalltalk when I used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it
worth to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd
like to discuss there?
TIA
--
Dennis Schetinin
Esug-list mailing list
Esug-list@lists.esug.org
http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Hi Dennis,
I would also be interested in a Mock presentation. Not really about the
concepts but practical cases. We all have needed mocks/stubs one day and
it would be interesting to see how/where people use them.
It is sometimes hard to know where to mock and how far we should mock.
Cheers,
Francois
On 27/05/11 06:36, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
> currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation
> targeting at ESUG 2011.
>
> I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
> Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll
> provide a small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
>
> Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It
> even seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be
> (despite the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and
> Mocks for many years in different projects with Smalltalk and other
> languages. Sometimes it was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but
> by now I think I have sufficient experience to state that TDD in general
> and Mock Objects specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by
> smalltalkers. Yes, Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools.
> This damps some aspects of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for
> sure does not remove them totally. More than that, I can say I was most
> productive in Smalltalk when I used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
>
>
> So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it
> worth to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd
> like to discuss there?
>
> TIA
>
> --
> Dennis Schetinin
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
JO
John O'Keefe
Fri, May 27, 2011 1:28 PM
Dennis -
Yes, I would very much like to hear what you've done with Mock Objects.
Niall makes some interesting points in his note about alternatives and I
think it would be good to explore these as part of your presentation since
they seem to be related to why we haven't seen mocks used more commonly in
Smalltalk.
John O'Keefe [|], Principal Smalltalk Architect, Instantiations Inc.
Skype: john_okeefe2 Mobile: +1 919 417-3181 (Business hours USA Eastern
Time zone (GMT -5))
john_okeefe@instantiations.com
http://www.instantiations.com
VA Smalltalk...Onward and Upward!
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Dennis Schetinin chaetal@gmail.comwrote:
Hello!
I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
at ESUG 2011.
I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
discuss there?
TIA
--
Dennis Schetinin
Esug-list mailing list
Esug-list@lists.esug.org
http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Dennis -
Yes, I would very much like to hear what you've done with Mock Objects.
Niall makes some interesting points in his note about alternatives and I
think it would be good to explore these as part of your presentation since
they seem to be related to why we haven't seen mocks used more commonly in
Smalltalk.
John O'Keefe [|], Principal Smalltalk Architect, Instantiations Inc.
Skype: john_okeefe2 Mobile: +1 919 417-3181 (Business hours USA Eastern
Time zone (GMT -5))
john_okeefe@instantiations.com
http://www.instantiations.com
*VA Smalltalk...Onward and Upward!*
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm
> currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting
> at ESUG 2011.
>
> I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named
> Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a
> small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
>
> Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even
> seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite
> the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many
> years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it
> was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have
> sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects
> specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes,
> Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects
> of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them
> totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I
> used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
>
>
> So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth
> to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to
> discuss there?
>
> TIA
>
> --
> Dennis Schetinin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>
SD
Stéphane Ducasse
Sat, May 28, 2011 7:16 AM
- 1
Already added to the program draft.
I will publish it soon.
Stef
On May 27, 2011, at 3:28 PM, John O'Keefe wrote:
Dennis -
Yes, I would very much like to hear what you've done with Mock Objects. Niall makes some interesting points in his note about alternatives and I think it would be good to explore these as part of your presentation since they seem to be related to why we haven't seen mocks used more commonly in Smalltalk.
John O'Keefe [|], Principal Smalltalk Architect, Instantiations Inc.
Skype: john_okeefe2 Mobile: +1 919 417-3181 (Business hours USA Eastern Time zone (GMT -5))
john_okeefe@instantiations.com
http://www.instantiations.com
VA Smalltalk...Onward and Upward!
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Dennis Schetinin chaetal@gmail.com wrote:
Hello!
I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting at ESUG 2011.
I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes, Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to discuss there?
TIA
--
Dennis Schetinin
Esug-list mailing list
Esug-list@lists.esug.org
http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Esug-list mailing list
Esug-list@lists.esug.org
http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
+ 1
Already added to the program draft.
I will publish it soon.
Stef
On May 27, 2011, at 3:28 PM, John O'Keefe wrote:
> Dennis -
>
> Yes, I would very much like to hear what you've done with Mock Objects. Niall makes some interesting points in his note about alternatives and I think it would be good to explore these as part of your presentation since they seem to be related to why we haven't seen mocks used more commonly in Smalltalk.
>
> John O'Keefe [|], Principal Smalltalk Architect, Instantiations Inc.
> Skype: john_okeefe2 Mobile: +1 919 417-3181 (Business hours USA Eastern Time zone (GMT -5))
> john_okeefe@instantiations.com
> http://www.instantiations.com
> VA Smalltalk...Onward and Upward!
>
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I'd like to explore interest to Mock Object in Smalltalk society. I'm currently working on the topic, preparing a paper and presentation targeting at ESUG 2011.
>
> I plan to present Mock Objects technique itself and a framework named Mocketry as a tool helping to apply it in practice. Of course I'll provide a small example to illustrate some of the ideas.
>
> Apparently, Mocks technique is not popular tool among Smalltalkers. It even seems (to me), TDD is not as widely used as it could and should be (despite the fact it was born in Smalltalk). I have been using TDD and Mocks for many years in different projects with Smalltalk and other languages. Sometimes it was hard, sometimes I was even giving it up, but by now I think I have sufficient experience to state that TDD in general and Mock Objects specifically do deserve (at least) more attention by smalltalkers. Yes, Smalltalk is great language and it has great tools. This damps some aspects of the problems TDD and Mocks address, but for sure does not remove them totally. More than that, I can say I was most productive in Smalltalk when I used "classic TDD" and mocks in conjunction.
>
>
> So, are other Smalltalkers interested in this topic? Do you think it worth to be presented at the conference? What are the problems you'd like to discuss there?
>
> TIA
>
> --
> Dennis Schetinin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> Esug-list@lists.esug.org
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
