Shuttlebox Rethink
This is an FYI for Shuttlebox users or fans of small footprint
boxes. This summer it was hot in SE AK and we experienced heating
problems w/ our, what had been, bullet proof computer system. After
pulling the box apart including the power supply, I found an amazing
amount of dust on the fans and the CPU cooling grids. Cleaning
helped but I think the power supply is failing - not a nice thing to
experience while traveling in the fog. Lots of room around the
components w/ room for a cooling fan or two seems like a way to go.
I just can't imagine that running CE is such a heat generating
operation. Time to rethink the computer box. What works in hot and
humid FL or TX?
Tom
Aventura
KK-42 #204
krogenguy@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Krogenguy" krogenguy@comcast.net
This is an FYI for Shuttlebox users or fans of small footprint
boxes. >>>>snip <<<<<< Lots of room around the
components w/ room for a cooling fan or two seems like a way to go.
I just can't imagine that running CE is such a heat generating
operation. Time to rethink the computer box. What works in hot and
humid FL or TX?
Tom
REPLY
Tom you just identified the achilles heel of computing.
From what I have seen most computer equipment designers assume the product
will be used in an air conditioned environment.
Secondly, back when we used vacuum tube test equipment; things like
Textronic scopes had intake and exhaust fans complete with dust filters.
You don't see that kind of attention to detail in today's computers. With
an external filter it was easy to see when it needed cleaning. Some of
the new hot gaming computers have additional fans front and back but still
no dust filter. Consequently you never see the accumulation of dust until
its too late.
Various ways have been developed to dump the heat ranging from bigger heat
sinks to more fans and even actual liquid filled radiators and fans
mounted on the exterior of the cases. Heat pipes have also been used.
Laptops seem more prone to heat build up than desk tops. As global
climate change progresses I suspect we will see more cases of over heated
computer equipment. Peltier cell coolong has also been used but that is a
real power hog.
Arild
Liquid cooling is probably the answer, although it is normally devoted to
cooling the CPU. One way to make a small box unit run cooler is to install a
CPU engineered for a laptop - consumes less power and gives off less heat.
CPUs can be swapped-out. Memory also generates heat - some more than others.
You might also want to check how your video is generated. CE doesn't require
allot of video horsepower and a motherboard video chip can be enough. N.B.
that is why video cards have dedicated fans - they are graphics computers
after all.
Lastly, is the box located in the coolest location possible? Extension
cables and wireless make it possible to remotely locate your box in a cool
spot away from other instruments.
Ron Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From: 2elnav@netbistro.com
REPLY
Tom you just identified the achilles heel of computing.
From what I have seen most computer equipment designers assume the
product
will be used in an air conditioned environment.
Secondly, back when we used vacuum tube test equipment; things like
Textronic scopes had intake and exhaust fans complete with dust filters.
You don't see that kind of attention to detail in today's computers. With
an external filter it was easy to see when it needed cleaning. Some of
the new hot gaming computers have additional fans front and back but still
no dust filter. Consequently you never see the accumulation of dust until
its too late.
Various ways have been developed to dump the heat ranging from bigger heat
sinks to more fans and even actual liquid filled radiators and fans
mounted on the exterior of the cases. Heat pipes have also been used.
Laptops seem more prone to heat build up than desk tops. As global
climate change progresses I suspect we will see more cases of over heated
computer equipment. Peltier cell coolong has also been used but that is a
real power hog.
I keep my very high powered (hot) computer in an enclosed compartment
under my helm seat that used to be a drinks cabinet. The last thing I
needed so I gutted it and made it a computer cabinet. It had a louver
in the front I added two on each side. Both side louvers have two
computer fans one set blowing in and one blowing out. The computer
itself has no side panels so the air blow through it. I left the case
fan and of course the cpu fan. The cpu, AMD 9950 Quad core, now runs
about 46C and the video card runs about 55C. The fans are connected to
the boats 12V so they don't put any additional load on the computer
power supply.
Someone mentioned vacuuming out the computer, I highly recommend that
you don't do that. Vacuums generate a lot of static electricity. If
you touch the wrong component your computer is toast. Even with a
plastic wand you can zap a critical part. I recommend blowing out the
dust with canned air or an air compressor.
Since I am going to start working from the boat soon And just built a
Win 64 capable (running vista 64 ++) desktop with 22" Hitachi Monitor, I
an looking at liquid cooling as well. Think about it this way... We have
thru hulls now that cool our engines/AC units etc... Why not tie a
through hull into a computer HE and let that run when needed. Worst case
scenario for the NE USA the water gets real cold (LOL) and keeps the PC
cool. Not sure yet of the full hook up will look at it after the season
is over a bit more.
Noel
'88 40' Hatt DCMY
Michael wrote:
I keep my very high powered (hot) computer in an enclosed compartment
under my helm seat that used to be a drinks cabinet. The last thing I
needed so I gutted it and made it a computer cabinet. It had a louver
in the front I added two on each side. Both side louvers have two
computer fans one set blowing in and one blowing out. The computer
itself has no side panels so the air blow through it. I left the case
fan and of course the cpu fan. The cpu, AMD 9950 Quad core, now runs
about 46C and the video card runs about 55C. The fans are connected
to the boats 12V so they don't put any additional load on the computer
power supply.
Someone mentioned vacuuming out the computer, I highly recommend that
you don't do that. Vacuums generate a lot of static electricity. If
you touch the wrong component your computer is toast. Even with a
plastic wand you can zap a critical part. I recommend blowing out the
dust with canned air or an air compressor.
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I run a desktop unit on my boat. As a FL livaboard it runs nearly 24/7. I do not run my a/c while I am at work and inside temps are often 95+ during the days. My pc is also under my nav station so does not get good circulation. The box cooling fan is the only source of fresh air to the inside of the unit and it runs on high speed alot. I have never had a thermal shutdown of the pc to date (nor the dreaded blue screen of death that Mac users fear so much), so can only say perhaps I've been lucky the last 4 years. One design feature of my pc I like is that internally the air is ducted directly onto the cooling fins of the cpu heatsink. My first unit so equiped, but perhaps they are all like that now.
I can only imagine what a laptop or smaller footprint pc might experience but do know a laptop actually used on your lap can become too hot to keep there. I do clean the innards frequently with compressed air to remove any dust accumulated inside. A prefilter with an additional fan to supplement airflow would reduce the dust problem.
Joel Wilkins
m/s Miss Magoo
Columbia 45
S. Pasadena, FL
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Check your PC's specifications or those of a factory built one like yours -
they are not certified to operate at 95F and above. You are just lucky and I
hope that you do not find out that I am correct and your PC fails. BTW, the
BSOD is an old Windows problem which I have not seen since the advent of XP
Pro.
Some folks get a kick out of pushing the envelope = don't do it.
Closed PC cooling systems are adequate and have been known to fail. For
heaven's sake, do not connect a cooling system to an unlimited supply of
water! Besides, do you need a "hot" PC for what you want to do? Are you a
gamer?
Ron Rogers
Ron,
The set up would be the same as an engine... Look at the liquid cooling
systems. As for right now, We try not to run the AC at all during the
day and I have 4 fans in a light aluminum box. I will have to instll Win
7 soon too.... there goes the neighborhood LOL. While I play games for
fun, I do not mod for gaming, However I have been known to have 3-4 VM's
running at once too. Can't wait for Covad to finish getting installed.
Stupid Verizon.....
Noel
Ron Rogers wrote:
Check your PC's specifications or those of a factory built one like yours -
they are not certified to operate at 95F and above. You are just lucky and I
hope that you do not find out that I am correct and your PC fails. BTW, the
BSOD is an old Windows problem which I have not seen since the advent of XP
Pro.
Some folks get a kick out of pushing the envelope = don't do it.
Closed PC cooling systems are adequate and have been known to fail. For
heaven's sake, do not connect a cooling system to an unlimited supply of
water! Besides, do you need a "hot" PC for what you want to do? Are you a
gamer?
Ron Rogers
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Ron,
The point I was trying to make is that some form factors are more forgiving than others when it comes to heat. I think any small form factor pc (laptop or small footprint) will experience more of a heat rise than a full sized box with plenty of ventilation. I am not trying to push the limits, I am simply meeting my needs.
One thing a warm pc does in the high humidity of FL is inhibit moisture collection which is just as damaging as overheat
At Raytheon where I work, we make computing boxes for the DoD..think Raid 5 box with quad processors on steroids.... and the engineers ALL build in operating margin. Margin on top of margin equals conditions that rarely if ever get met. And while no one gadget should ever be relied on for critical functions a 3+ year stress test on a system is a pretty good indicator that the MBTF is pretty high at current operating conditions.
YMMV
Joel Wilkins
m/s Miss Magoo
Columbia 45
S. Pasadena, FL
Unfortunately, I know this to be 100% true and have now reverted to 24/7
operation. One failed laptop was revived with my dog George's hair dryer.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Wilkins
Ron,
One thing a warm pc does in the high humidity of FL is inhibit moisture
collection which is just as damaging as overheat