If those people lay claim to that boat, their lives will be cursed.

On 11/28/07 4:32 PM, "Rich Werner" poco@werner2.com wrote:

Mike these people might be entitled to a couple hundred bucks for waiting
for the CG to get there, but what those two scurvey salvagers are doing is
wrong. It was anchored in 120 feet of water... How much danger could there
have been....

Sounds like a couple of scumbags looking for a free boat to me. They don't
give a crap about the circumstances or what's right and wrong.

The deceased sailors daughter may have given them the boat had they asked.

I say they're cursed for life if they follow through with it.

Cursed, cursed, cursed.

*What would you want me to do if you fell off your boat and diedand I
found it anchored in non dangerous waters? Lay a salvage claim to it and
seize it for myself, or give it back to your kin?

What? Give it back to your kin?  Yeah that's what I thought.

-C

On 11/28/07 5:06 PM, "Mike Maurice" mikem@yachtsdelivered.com wrote:

Mike and all:  The law may be on the side of the people who found the boat,
but the law is not necessarily "right", it is just the law.  I may be
mistaken, but many of these laws come from a time far before the ability of
place position, to communicate with the Coast Guard etc., which makes me
question the current validity of the laws.

Although the finders may be legally entitled to what seems to me to be
excessive rewards for their time, it just does not seem morally right.  I
think that cases like this speak to the problem of greed more than fairness.

Since none of us really have all of the facts,  I don't think any of us
could accurately evaluate the danger that might have been involved.  One
would hope that if it were truly dangerous to check out the boat, that the
finders would be smart enough to evaluate the potential danger and take
appropriate action (or lack of action) to protect themselves.

Rich
GB32-277

claim for salvage. There is no claim for salvage for saving lives, that is
an obligation of any mariner.

the total loss of the vessel. The owner is lucky that someone provided
assistance. The rewards for salvage are not dependent upon the amount of
time spent, but are related to the effectiveness, danger and other factors.

On Nov 28, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Rich Werner wrote:

Only if they mistake a finder's fee for a salvage fee.  They found
the boat,  they did not salvage it.  The two are not the same and
should not be confused.

-Sven

At the risk of beating another dead horse, there's an excelling "short
and sweet" primer on the differences between towing and salvage on the
BoatUS web site. It's written by an experienced admiralty lawyer who has
expertise in the area; it's not a WAG by a layman who's only guessing at
the subject matter.

Keep in mind that it's written to impart a basic understanding of the
law. As with many areas of the law, it's much more complex than is
represented here, but the article does impart some basic concepts.

Check it out at: http://www.boatus.com/towing/guide/salvage/

<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young                  Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling                              Patrick Air Force Base
Defever 41 Trawler                          Melbourne, Florida

On 11/29/2007 7:26 AM, Peter Gelinas wrote:

The primer and contract are interesting and informative, but my question was
on another aspect of the situation.

The situation described an abandoned boat and the claim by the fishing vessel
that found it, that there should be compensation for the time they spent
following the coastguard's instructions of bording the boat, staying with the
boat until the coastguard arrived, etc.

My question begs the answer to a hypothetical situation:

The boat in question was abandoned. Anyone (as far as I know) had the right to
claim it, tow it back to some harbor and claim ownership ... or at least claim
the cost of towing it to the harbor.

But when is a vessel abandoned? When can someone claim ownership? Freely
floating? Anchored? Distance from shore? Depth of water? What are the factors
that determine if a vessel IS abandoned. ... More precisely, how do I prevent
someone claiming my vessel when it is anchored in a secluded bay and I am off
in the dinghy fishing

And yes it is sad that the daughter of the deceased owner looses her father
AND might have to pay some fees for the recovery of the vessel, but hundreds
af Americans die every year because money for their medical treatment runs out
and the doctors stop treating them. No one puts a curse on the doctors, so why
the resentment to the claims of the fishing vessel just because the case is
'sad'

DISCLAIMER: The above paragraph was not a political statement.

Peter

family etc)> > At the risk of beating another dead horse, there's an excelling
"short > and sweet" primer on the differences between towing and salvage on
the > BoatUS web site. > > Check it out at:
http://www.boatus.com/towing/guide/salvage/> > > The real question is one of
salvage rights.> >> > Does anyone on this list know the rules and legalities
of salvage? Could you> > condense the answer so we don't have another thread
with "excrutiating detail"> > (smile)

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Its not a question of whats legal, its a question of whats right and wrong.

Just because something is legal to do doesn't mean it should be done.

No one has answered my question:

What would you want me to do if >you< fell off your boat and died and I
found it anchored in non dangerous waters? Lay a salvage claim to it and
seize it for myself, or give it back to your kin?

-C

On 11/29/07 6:11 AM, "Peter Gelinas" petergelinas@hotmail.com wrote:

On Nov 29, 2007 9:11 AM, Peter Gelinas petergelinas@hotmail.com wrote:

All I know is what I've read in the articles, but I think it would be
more consistent with available facts to say the boat was unoccupied.
Abandoned vessels, I believe, are usually found adrift or aground, not
properly anchored.  Someone took the care to anchor the boat, then
departed the vessel for reasons unknown.  Bob M or another of the
attorneys present may be able to explain  more detail, but I wouldn't
think that a state of non-occupancy of a properly anchored vessel
could reasonably be construed as prima facie evidence of abandonment.

If Didier indeed fell off and died, or died and fell off, would not
the vessel immediately have become the property of the Estate of
Didier?  Or if a will exists, the property of the designated heir?
Neither of these entities, as far as we know, made any decision to
abandon the vessel.

Also, as far as the articles reveal, it seems the Ratheys never
boarded the vessel, nor even put a line on the vessel.

Would any of these lines of thought have any bearing?

JG