Greg,

In my recent posting on this subject, I did not mean to imply that the
solution for everyone was to buy a diesel boat or retrofit their
existing gas boat to diesel.  Rather, I was addressing the subject of
engine life.  Since, several posting had indicated a need for frequent
major overhauls on boat engines, I was trying to illustrate that this is
not true for many diesel trawlers.  In fact most of our friends who live
and cruise on diesel boats find that engine overhaul is not a problem at
all.  People I know have cruised 10 and 15 years between engine
overhuals.  The engine(s) did not require overhaul until thousands of
hours of operation.  I attribute this to regular use, regular
maintenance and operation of the engine for prolonged periods at a
constant RPM.

When comparing this type of use to people who boat and work, I find
these folks must overhaul their boat engines more frequently.  This
occurs  (IMHO) because they run the engines infrequently, often miss
scheduled maintenance, run the engines in spurts of high RPM, etc.  I
think this typical for both gas and diesel engines.

To address your concerns about the cost of two hypothetical people
buying a gas and a diesel boat of the same length, let me say this.
First, there is no perfect boat for everyone.  All of us are at
different points in our lives and have different financial situations.
Judy and John Gill are a perfect example.  They already owned a gas
boat.  They liked their boat.  They decided to make the Great Circle
trip.  They budgeted $25,000 for fuel and went.  They enjoyed the trip
and I could not agree more with their decision.  To sell a boat they
liked just to buy a diesel boat to save fuel does not always make
sense.  To retrofit their boat (which I am not sure they could even do)
would have been cost prohibitive and would not have saved them any
money, even if they sold the boat when they returned (which they did not
plan to do).

So, don't let anyone try to tell you that to do the Great Circle Route
you should buy a diesel boat to save money.  There are three errors in
your calculations which you should be aware of.  First, not all diesel
boats are created equal.  Many "fast trawlers" on the market burn as
much or more fuel than equivalent length gas boats.

Second, gas and diesel costs per gallon for a fast gas boat and a slow
economical trawler will not even be close.  A slow single engine trawler
(like we had) with a cruising range of over 1,000 miles per tank of fuel
can pick and choose where to fuel up.  While the present average cost of
diesel fuel on the East Coast is $1.65 per gallon the cost of gasoline
is $2.31.  I can tell you from experience, that when I take a fast
diesel or gas boat down the ICW I end up paying the average cost for
fuel, because I can't pick and choose where to fuel up, but must fuel up
every day or every other day.  On the other hand in our trawler, we
selected our fuel points way in advance and never paid even close to the
average cost for diesel.  When diesel was $1.23/gallon on average we
typically paid less than $1 per gallon.  The reason, of course is that I
am going to take on fuel at the stops where I know fuel is cheapest and
not just because I need it.  So in doing any calculations for the cost
of fuel, you should plan to spend a lot more for gas.  I would estimate
that on average the cost per gallon for diesel fuel for a slow trawler
will be half that of a fast gas boat.

The third point pertains to how long you will keep the boat.  When we
bought our trawler we looked at as an investment, just like a house.  My
experience had been that over time used trawlers that are properly
maintained will increase in value.  From personal experience and that of
our friends, we have found that slow trawlers that are well maintained
almost always sell for more than they were bought for more than 5 years
later.  On the other hand, if you are planning on buying a boat just to
do the Great Circle Route you can't plan on much appreciation in its
value in one or two years.  My experience also indicates that gas boats
do not appreciate like diesel trawlers do.  Thus, the resale value of a
gas boat will probably not equal what you paid for it.  Just look at
your own figures to substantiate this.  A 1985 gas boat is worth less
than half of the 1985 Krogen Manatee.  But, I'll bet the cost in 1985
was pretty close to the same.

Again, look at our history.  We bought a 36' trawler in 1992 for
$72,000.  It was 7 years old at that time.  We operated the boat for
more than eight years and cruised more than 40,000 miles on her.  Our
fuel consumption was a consistent 1.3 GPH or 5.57 MPG.  Based on this we
used nearly 7182 gallons of fuel in more than 8 years.  At todays
average price for diesel that would be about $11,850.  In reality we
always paid less than average so I would figure our fuel cost in todays
market at closer to $1.35 per gallon.  At that cost the 40,000 miles
would cost us less than $10,000.  If I compare the boat you reference
getting only 1.1 MPG then that boat would have used 44,000 gallons of
fuel to go the same distance.  At todays price of $2.31 per gallon, that
would be nearly $101,640.  (More than we paid for the boat).  We sold
our Krogen Manatee in 2000 for $125,000 (an increase of 73% in value).
Using your figure of  $157,587, it would appear the Krogen has now
increased another 25% in 4 years.  If you look at the fact that the
Krogen Manatee sold new in 1985 for $80,000 and today the average value
for a slow Krogen Trawler that is 19 years old is $157.587 that would
indicate that they have appreciated about 96% in two decades.  You won't
find that kind of increase in value in gas boats.

The bottom line is this.  Is a diesel boat the only choice for someone
who wants to do the Great Circle Route?  NO!!  In many cases the initial
cost, short period of ownership, and other factors dictate that a gas
boat makes more sense.  Will it cost more for fuel to do the Great
Circle Route in a fast gas boat vs a slow diesel trawler?  Probably.  Is
that alone enough to make someone buy diesel over gas?  No!  You have to
look at all the facts.  How old a boat do you want?  How long will the
boat be?  Will you buy it new or used?  How long do you plan to keep
her?  What will your use be after you finish the loop?  There is no one
answer for all interested boaters.  However, there is a perfect boat out
there for anyone wanting to do the Great Circle Route.  It may be gas,
or it may be diesel.  It may be a houseboat, or it may be a fast trawler.

Hope this doesn't muddy up the waters too much.

Bob

Skipper Bob Publications
Http:\SkipperBob.home.att.net

You know I think there's another big item missing here.
Just like some folks will buy a $40000 Lexus to take them on their errands
while others are satisfied with a $16000 Ford to do the same, some folks
will do the same regarding diesel vs. gasoline. Some just want a Lexus. Some
just want a diesel. No economic justification--- they just get what they
want!
Is there something wrong with that?
Bill

John,
Slept many nites with the diesel gen running and have slept some nites on
the runs from Mobile to Tampa Bay with sufficient crew. Two hrs on, two hrs
off. Have twin 130hp Perkins. Good maintanence keeps my mind at ease.
Cheers

Dick Schroder

---=======
Subject: Re: GL: Re: Diesel vs Gas

Wayne,

I would agree about a diesel generator versus gasoline, but do you sleep
with your twin diesel engines running???

John