Empathy List Archives

N

nlsa@nlsa.com

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 2:18 PM

Dear friends,

Those of you who have their own in-house NTP server may have experienced failure last year. This was due to a GPS week rollover that many timing receivers could not cope with. Suddenly your NTP server can’t figure out the week and faults out.

I have found a replacement receiver for my SyncServer S250 (also works with S200, S300, etc.). The new board simply replaces the existing GPS receiver board; swap-out took five minutes. Total cost including shipping was €170.

Links:

Michael

Dear friends, Those of you who have their own in-house NTP server may have experienced failure last year. This was due to a GPS week rollover that many timing receivers could not cope with. Suddenly your NTP server can’t figure out the week and faults out. I have found a replacement receiver for my SyncServer S250 (also works with S200, S300, etc.). The new board simply replaces the existing GPS receiver board; swap-out took five minutes. Total cost including shipping was €170. Links: * https://www.heoldesign.com/N01x-Trimble-Lassen-SK2-iQ-sQ-LP-ACE-replacements-boards * https://trends.directindustry.com/heol-design/project-57722-1149241.html Michael

FR

Fleeson, Richard

Wed, Mar 29, 2023 8:12 PM

Time-nuts,

Yes I was able to get the replacement Heols GPS board to work in my Symmetricom S200. But I could not get it to work in my Symmetricom S350. The S350 NTP Reach value stayed at zero and never started claiming to 377. Does anyone know if a software update is also required on the S350? If yes does anyone have a copy of the update or know where I could find the update?

Suspect the Heols board corrects the on board bootup date issue. But the Heols is probably outputting the expanded week count value from the GPS satellites which is tripping up the S350 NTP server?

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: nlsa--- via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 9:19 AM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: nlsa@nlsa.com
Subject: [time-nuts] NTP server replacement GPS receiver

** WARNING EXTERNAL EMAIL **

Dear friends,

Those of you who have their own in-house NTP server may have experienced failure last year. This was due to a GPS week rollover that many timing receivers could not cope with. Suddenly your NTP server can’t figure out the week and faults out.

I have found a replacement receiver for my SyncServer S250 (also works with S200, S300, etc.). The new board simply replaces the existing GPS receiver board; swap-out took five minutes. Total cost including shipping was €170.

Links:

  https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heoldesign.com%2FN01x-Trimble-Lassen-SK2-iQ-sQ-LP-ACE-replacements-boards&data=05%7C01%7Crfleeson%40c-span.org%7Cc4576aeba7b449e60b1208db1b2ee8d4%7C83b501a4d32042618073a3eca4d72dcb%7C0%7C0%7C638133660541059631%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SO8TzgFwewd89PCtW4u%2B84YOzo1WG%2B4TtZFrlsHDLDs%3D&reserved=0

  https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrends.directindustry.com%2Fheol-design%2Fproject-57722-1149241.html&data=05%7C01%7Crfleeson%40c-span.org%7Cc4576aeba7b449e60b1208db1b2ee8d4%7C83b501a4d32042618073a3eca4d72dcb%7C0%7C0%7C638133660541059631%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rt19%2Bqh1HcrPC7ppwNUF0HBt03934ntdr8gvHe565uk%3D&reserved=0

Michael

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Time-nuts, Yes I was able to get the replacement Heols GPS board to work in my Symmetricom S200. But I could not get it to work in my Symmetricom S350. The S350 NTP Reach value stayed at zero and never started claiming to 377. Does anyone know if a software update is also required on the S350? If yes does anyone have a copy of the update or know where I could find the update? Suspect the Heols board corrects the on board bootup date issue. But the Heols is probably outputting the expanded week count value from the GPS satellites which is tripping up the S350 NTP server? Richard -----Original Message----- From: nlsa--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 9:19 AM To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com Cc: nlsa@nlsa.com Subject: [time-nuts] NTP server replacement GPS receiver ** WARNING EXTERNAL EMAIL ** Dear friends, Those of you who have their own in-house NTP server may have experienced failure last year. This was due to a GPS week rollover that many timing receivers could not cope with. Suddenly your NTP server can’t figure out the week and faults out. I have found a replacement receiver for my SyncServer S250 (also works with S200, S300, etc.). The new board simply replaces the existing GPS receiver board; swap-out took five minutes. Total cost including shipping was €170. Links: * https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heoldesign.com%2FN01x-Trimble-Lassen-SK2-iQ-sQ-LP-ACE-replacements-boards&data=05%7C01%7Crfleeson%40c-span.org%7Cc4576aeba7b449e60b1208db1b2ee8d4%7C83b501a4d32042618073a3eca4d72dcb%7C0%7C0%7C638133660541059631%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SO8TzgFwewd89PCtW4u%2B84YOzo1WG%2B4TtZFrlsHDLDs%3D&reserved=0 * https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrends.directindustry.com%2Fheol-design%2Fproject-57722-1149241.html&data=05%7C01%7Crfleeson%40c-span.org%7Cc4576aeba7b449e60b1208db1b2ee8d4%7C83b501a4d32042618073a3eca4d72dcb%7C0%7C0%7C638133660541059631%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rt19%2Bqh1HcrPC7ppwNUF0HBt03934ntdr8gvHe565uk%3D&reserved=0 Michael _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, purge it and do not disseminate or copy it.

SS

Steven Sommars

Thu, Mar 30, 2023 12:15 AM

Heol Design has been responsive to my support questions, even though I am
not a customer (just an observer).

I've seen two issues: #1 Off by 1 second for a one second duration every
hour, beginning XX:59:01 I'm told this is due to software version
mismatch.
I'm aware of only one public NTP server with this problem; that site is
unable to make the needed software change.
#2 Off by one second for a duration of one hour at the beginning of
specific GPS weeks. I observed this 2023-03-12 00:00 and reported to Heol.
Heol Design told me that the problem comes from the way Tymserve-Datum
attempted to avoid GPS WNRO (using leap seconds) and that the problem is
expected to recur every 70 or 71 weeks.
I was able to verify this from my historical NTP logs. They're working on
a fix.

Versions do matter. Check with Heol Design for the required software
versions and updates.

Heol Design has been responsive to my support questions, even though I am not a customer (just an observer). I've seen two issues: #1 Off by 1 second for a one second duration every hour, beginning XX:59:01 I'm told this is due to software version mismatch. I'm aware of only one public NTP server with this problem; that site is unable to make the needed software change. #2 Off by one second for a duration of one hour at the beginning of specific GPS weeks. I observed this 2023-03-12 00:00 and reported to Heol. Heol Design told me that the problem comes from the way Tymserve-Datum attempted to avoid GPS WNRO (using leap seconds) and that the problem is expected to recur every 70 or 71 weeks. I was able to verify this from my historical NTP logs. They're working on a fix. Versions do matter. Check with Heol Design for the required software versions and updates.

N

nlsa@nlsa.com

Thu, Mar 30, 2023 2:00 AM

Dear friends,

Another small hiccup in the Heols Design receiver: the list of GPS satellites is always empty. Heols knows about it.

Michael

From: Steven Sommars stevesommarsntp@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 8:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: nlsa@nlsa.com; Fleeson, Richard RFLEESON@c-span.org
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: NTP server replacement GPS receiver

Heol Design has been responsive to my support questions, even though I am not a customer (just an observer).

I've seen two issues: #1 Off by 1 second for a one second duration every hour, beginning XX:59:01 I'm told this is due to software version mismatch.

I'm aware of only one public NTP server with this problem; that site is unable to make the needed software change.

#2 Off by one second for a duration of one hour at the beginning of specific GPS weeks. I observed this 2023-03-12 00:00 and reported to Heol.

Heol Design told me that the problem comes from the way Tymserve-Datum attempted to avoid GPS WNRO (using leap seconds) and that the problem is expected to recur every 70 or 71 weeks.

I was able to verify this from my historical NTP logs. They're working on a fix.

Versions do matter. Check with Heol Design for the required software versions and updates.

Dear friends, Another small hiccup in the Heols Design receiver: the list of GPS satellites is always empty. Heols knows about it. Michael From: Steven Sommars <stevesommarsntp@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 8:15 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Cc: nlsa@nlsa.com; Fleeson, Richard <RFLEESON@c-span.org> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: NTP server replacement GPS receiver Heol Design has been responsive to my support questions, even though I am not a customer (just an observer). I've seen two issues: #1 Off by 1 second for a one second duration every hour, beginning XX:59:01 I'm told this is due to software version mismatch. I'm aware of only one public NTP server with this problem; that site is unable to make the needed software change. #2 Off by one second for a duration of one hour at the beginning of specific GPS weeks. I observed this 2023-03-12 00:00 and reported to Heol. Heol Design told me that the problem comes from the way Tymserve-Datum attempted to avoid GPS WNRO (using leap seconds) and that the problem is expected to recur every 70 or 71 weeks. I was able to verify this from my historical NTP logs. They're working on a fix. Versions do matter. Check with Heol Design for the required software versions and updates.

FR

Fleeson, Richard

Thu, Mar 30, 2023 4:03 PM

Yes you are correct Heols has been very responsive and helpful as have others I have contacted like Furuno, Jackson Engineering and Symmetricom. So far the Heols module is the only one I have tried that works in the S200. I sent a full description of my S350 issues to Heols at the same time I reached out to the Time-Nuts brain trust. My search is an effort for work to avoid the cost of new replacement NTP servers. I have limited time so the sub-module solution and a software update is what I am looking for.

Talking to Furuno the GT-8031 will produce the correct date. It just takes setting the date/time registers in the GT-8031. This needs to be done at boot up or after a Pin 6 reset. The date/time setting should hold if you put a battery feed on Pin 7. For those who might score a used Symmetricom for their home basement lab I think there may be a cheap "Man In The Middle" way to hack the original Symmetricom sub module. I have not tried this but you could intercept the serial commands sent to Furuno GT-8031 and set the correct date and time registers as well as if needed truncate the week roll over output back to the Symmetricom. Of course you would need to allow the other normal Symmetricom/GT-8031 TX/RX data flow as well.

This is the GT-8031 pinout for TX/RX and Battery connections:
[cid:image001.png@01D962FF.82BD8020]

Let me know if anyone needs the protocol for the GT-8031.

Richard

From: Steven Sommars stevesommarsntp@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 8:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: nlsa@nlsa.com; Fleeson, Richard RFLEESON@c-span.org
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: NTP server replacement GPS receiver

** WARNING EXTERNAL EMAIL **
Heol Design has been responsive to my support questions, even though I am not a customer (just an observer).

I've seen two issues: #1 Off by 1 second for a one second duration every hour, beginning XX:59:01 I'm told this is due to software version mismatch.
I'm aware of only one public NTP server with this problem; that site is unable to make the needed software change.
#2 Off by one second for a duration of one hour at the beginning of specific GPS weeks. I observed this 2023-03-12 00:00 and reported to Heol.
Heol Design told me that the problem comes from the way Tymserve-Datum attempted to avoid GPS WNRO (using leap seconds) and that the problem is expected to recur every 70 or 71 weeks.
I was able to verify this from my historical NTP logs. They're working on a fix.

Versions do matter. Check with Heol Design for the required software versions and updates.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, purge it and do not disseminate or copy it.

Yes you are correct Heols has been very responsive and helpful as have others I have contacted like Furuno, Jackson Engineering and Symmetricom. So far the Heols module is the only one I have tried that works in the S200. I sent a full description of my S350 issues to Heols at the same time I reached out to the Time-Nuts brain trust. My search is an effort for work to avoid the cost of new replacement NTP servers. I have limited time so the sub-module solution and a software update is what I am looking for. Talking to Furuno the GT-8031 will produce the correct date. It just takes setting the date/time registers in the GT-8031. This needs to be done at boot up or after a Pin 6 reset. The date/time setting should hold if you put a battery feed on Pin 7. For those who might score a used Symmetricom for their home basement lab I think there may be a cheap "Man In The Middle" way to hack the original Symmetricom sub module. I have not tried this but you could intercept the serial commands sent to Furuno GT-8031 and set the correct date and time registers as well as if needed truncate the week roll over output back to the Symmetricom. Of course you would need to allow the other normal Symmetricom/GT-8031 TX/RX data flow as well. This is the GT-8031 pinout for TX/RX and Battery connections: [cid:image001.png@01D962FF.82BD8020] Let me know if anyone needs the protocol for the GT-8031. Richard From: Steven Sommars <stevesommarsntp@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 8:15 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Cc: nlsa@nlsa.com; Fleeson, Richard <RFLEESON@c-span.org> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: NTP server replacement GPS receiver ** WARNING EXTERNAL EMAIL ** Heol Design has been responsive to my support questions, even though I am not a customer (just an observer). I've seen two issues: #1 Off by 1 second for a one second duration every hour, beginning XX:59:01 I'm told this is due to software version mismatch. I'm aware of only one public NTP server with this problem; that site is unable to make the needed software change. #2 Off by one second for a duration of one hour at the beginning of specific GPS weeks. I observed this 2023-03-12 00:00 and reported to Heol. Heol Design told me that the problem comes from the way Tymserve-Datum attempted to avoid GPS WNRO (using leap seconds) and that the problem is expected to recur every 70 or 71 weeks. I was able to verify this from my historical NTP logs. They're working on a fix. Versions do matter. Check with Heol Design for the required software versions and updates. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, purge it and do not disseminate or copy it.