LB

L Boyd

Sat, Aug 22, 2015 5:38 PM

OpenSCAD CheatSheet v2015.03 shows

Modifier Characters

highlight

% transparent

These are reversed from what happens
The manual page linked to these have the correct definition.

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

OpenSCAD CheatSheet v2015.03 shows Modifier Characters # highlight % transparent These are reversed from what happens The manual page linked to these have the correct definition. -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

MK

Marius Kintel

Mon, Aug 31, 2015 5:34 AM

Thx - added some clarification in the cheat sheet.

-Marius

On Aug 22, 2015, at 13:38 PM, L Boyd lboyd@frontiernet.net wrote:

OpenSCAD CheatSheet v2015.03 shows

Modifier Characters

highlight

% transparent

These are reversed from what happens
The manual page linked to these have the correct definition.

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

Thx - added some clarification in the cheat sheet. -Marius On Aug 22, 2015, at 13:38 PM, L Boyd <lboyd@frontiernet.net> wrote: > OpenSCAD CheatSheet v2015.03 shows > > Modifier Characters > > # highlight > % transparent > > These are reversed from what happens > The manual page linked to these have the correct definition. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592.html > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@lists.openscad.org > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

LB

L Boyd

Mon, Aug 31, 2015 1:26 PM

Yes that adds clarification, but they are still backwards

Revised cheat sheet

highlight / debug

%
transparent / background

Actual definition
Debug Modifier

Use this subtree as usual in the rendering process but also draw it
unmodified in /transparent pink./

Usage

{ ... }

The cheat sheet should display

transparent / debug

% highlight / background

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13661.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Yes that adds clarification, but they are still backwards *Revised cheat sheet* # highlight / debug % transparent / background *Actual definition* Debug Modifier Use this subtree as usual in the rendering process but also draw it unmodified in */transparent pink./* Usage # { ... } The cheat sheet should display # transparent / debug % highlight / background -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13661.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

TP

Torsten Paul

Mon, Aug 31, 2015 1:35 PM

Von: "L Boyd" lboyd@frontiernet.net

Yes that adds clarification, but they are still backwards

It's not backwards, both modifiers overlap in visual apperance as both make the object transparent (in different colors) by default.

Highlight / Debug is the # modifier which:

highlights / forces display in transparent red so it's visible even in difference()
it's debug as apart from the implicitely changed visual, it's still part of the model

Transparent / Background is the % modifier which:

makes the subtree display in transparent gray to somehow show it's "commented out for render"
removes it ("backgrounds it"?) from the render tree completely so it's not part of the final model, it's only shown in preview mode

The main reason for the modifiers is actually not the visual appearance as this can be changed by an explicit color()

ciao,
Torsten.

Von: "L Boyd" <lboyd@frontiernet.net> > Yes that adds clarification, but they are still backwards > It's not backwards, both modifiers overlap in visual apperance as both make the object transparent (in different colors) by default. Highlight / Debug is the # modifier which: - highlights / forces display in transparent red so it's visible even in difference() - it's debug as apart from the implicitely changed visual, it's still part of the model Transparent / Background is the % modifier which: - makes the subtree display in transparent gray to somehow show it's "commented out for render" - removes it ("backgrounds it"?) from the render tree completely so it's not part of the final model, it's only shown in preview mode The main reason for the modifiers is actually not the visual appearance as this can be changed by an explicit color() ciao, Torsten.

LB

L Boyd

Mon, Aug 31, 2015 4:06 PM

Both will display for difference. Yes they both have transparent properties,
so I guess it somewhat a matter of semantics.
However with difference() the pink with # lets me see inside the object from
which it was subtracted, while the grey with % does not.

To me that makes the # more transparent than the %.

I discover this when I used the one labelled transparent, expecting to be
able to see inside, which I could not

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13664.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Both will display for difference. Yes they both have transparent properties, so I guess it somewhat a matter of semantics. However with difference() the pink with # lets me see inside the object from which it was subtracted, while the grey with % does not. To me that makes the # more transparent than the %. I discover this when I used the one labelled transparent, expecting to be able to see inside, which I could not -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13664.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

TP

Torsten Paul

Mon, Aug 31, 2015 4:29 PM

Von: "L Boyd" lboyd@frontiernet.net

Both will display for difference. Yes they both have transparent properties,
so I guess it somewhat a matter of semantics.
However with difference() the pink with # lets me see inside the object from
which it was subtracted, while the grey with % does not.

Yep, that's the intention, # shows what happens for debugging purposes.

Think of % as a kind of sticky note in the model that will display but not
F6-render as it's not actually part of the model.

If you have an idea how to explain the difference between the modifiers
better, I'm happy to add that to the manual (or you can do that yourself
if you like, it's a wiki :-).

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/Modifier_Characters

ciao,
Torsten.

Von: "L Boyd" <lboyd@frontiernet.net> > Both will display for difference. Yes they both have transparent properties, > so I guess it somewhat a matter of semantics. > However with difference() the pink with # lets me see inside the object from > which it was subtracted, while the grey with % does not. > Yep, that's the intention, # shows what happens for debugging purposes. Think of % as a kind of sticky note in the model that will display but not F6-render as it's not actually part of the model. If you have an idea how to explain the difference between the modifiers better, I'm happy to add that to the manual (or you can do that yourself if you like, it's a wiki :-). https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/Modifier_Characters ciao, Torsten.

B

bobc

Mon, Aug 31, 2015 6:25 PM

I think part of the difficulty explaining the modifiers is that no one really
knows what they should be for :)

There are two special features of the modifiers other than color() that can
not be implemented by a user "debug()" module : removing the object from the
CSG tree, and applying a color attribute which is "sticky" ie. overrides the
normal color precedence.

Personally I would like to divorce the colors from the special features, so
that the user could write their own debug modifiers. This was discussed on
github quite a bit. I can see merits for various use cases.

A syntax like color(force=true) could make the color sticky, possible
render(false) to remove from the CSG.

The difficult bit as usual is creating clean extensions and keeping it
backward compatible.

I think it would be interesting to be able to override the modifiers e.g.

module operator% ()
{ render (false) color ("gray", 0.5) children();
}

would be a user defined equivalent of %.

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13666.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

I think part of the difficulty explaining the modifiers is that no one really knows what they should be for :) There are two special features of the modifiers other than color() that can not be implemented by a user "debug()" module : removing the object from the CSG tree, and applying a color attribute which is "sticky" ie. overrides the normal color precedence. Personally I would like to divorce the colors from the special features, so that the user could write their own debug modifiers. This was discussed on github quite a bit. I can see merits for various use cases. A syntax like color(force=true) could make the color sticky, possible render(false) to remove from the CSG. The difficult bit as usual is creating clean extensions and keeping it backward compatible. I think it would be interesting to be able to override the modifiers e.g. module operator% () { render (false) color ("gray", 0.5) children(); } would be a user defined equivalent of %. -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13666.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

N

Neon22

Tue, Sep 1, 2015 3:19 AM

While I certainly appreciate the !, #, * - I haven't personally found a use
for the %. YMMV.
I think the bases are covered and users will determine which approach works
for them.
FWIW I think the wordings OK ... Examples of how people use these values is
always useful.

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13671.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

While I certainly appreciate the !, #, * - I haven't personally found a use for the %. YMMV. I think the bases are covered and users will determine which approach works for them. FWIW I think the wordings OK ... Examples of how people use these values is always useful. -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13671.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

LB

L Boyd

Tue, Sep 1, 2015 12:46 PM

I will give some thought to wording. The real challenge is the short summary
on the cheat sheet. I need to play with % to learn what it does, then start
a new thread so we can kick around ideas.

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13680.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

I will give some thought to wording. The real challenge is the short summary on the cheat sheet. I need to play with % to learn what it does, then start a new thread so we can kick around ideas. -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Modifier-Characters-reversed-tp13592p13680.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

discuss@lists.openscad.org

Modifier Characters reversed

highlight

highlight

{ ... }

transparent / debug