Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Timenutters--
The question was asked-- Why can't a large aperture
high-resolution optic be used to locate bullet holes
in a target at 800 yards?
Consider this--: I often shoot at targets on the
600 yard berm at the Manatee Range (near Bradenton,
FL). Typically, by 11AM the atmospheric shimmering
mirage distortion makes even the 4" target hard to see.
By 1PM the use of any rifle scope magnification
greater than around 10X is an exercise in futility.
Often, the mirage is severe enough that even the
12" steel plates are hard to find through a 10X
scope.
.30" holes in a target...? No way.
Other questions that were asked: To what degree of
accuracy can the 800 yard distance be measured?
I have a laser range-finder which has been verified
to be within +/- 20 inches out to 1000 yards (the
U of F college of Engineering has a series of distance
marker posts set up for some research they were doing).
What kind of accuracy is expected for measuring bullet
velocity at the shooting bench and downrange? I have
a set of Oehler Research sky-screen chronographs that
use a 10MHz crystal for clocking the counting registers.
The projectiles start out at roughly between 2750 FPS and
3100 fps and end up downrange not slower than around
1800 fps. Assume sky-screen clocking ambiguities of
only a couple of clock pulses.
As an aside, projectiles whose velocity drops to
sub-sonic at 800 yds are of no interest to me.
The transition from super-sonic to sub-sonic generally
includes conditions that create inaccuracy.
I am VERY grateful for the feedback on this topic!
A couple of innovative suggestions from list members
have given me food for thought and I am going
to pursue looking into them.
My first chore is to investigate what kind of pulse
rise-times I get from a selection of inexpensive
ultrasonic sensors when a supersonic bullet passes
within a couple of feet from them. I have a Tek
2252 scope that I can place downrange to look at the
sensors with but storing the waveform for examination
may be a problem (no one seems to have volunteered to
stand downrange monitoring the scope screen!)
The Tek 2252 has a Centronix screen-capture printer
output but it is an Epson FX format and I have no
idea if any current printers at the local Office Mart
are compatible with the Epson FX data format. Anyone
on the TimeNuts list have any thoughts on this?
The 2252 scope also has a GPIB port but I don't know
if it outputs the printer data. I have a Sparkfun
GPIB/USB dongle but that may not be of any use if
there is no printer data on the GPIB port.
Mike Baker
My first chore is to investigate what kind of pulse
rise-times I get from a selection of inexpensive
ultrasonic sensors when a supersonic bullet passes
within a couple of feet from them. I have a Tek
2252 scope that I can place downrange to look at the
sensors with but storing the waveform for examination
may be a problem (no one seems to have volunteered to
stand downrange monitoring the scope screen!)
The Tek 2252 has a Centronix screen-capture printer
output but it is an Epson FX format and I have no
idea if any current printers at the local Office Mart
are compatible with the Epson FX data format. Anyone
on the TimeNuts list have any thoughts on this?
www.printcapture.com should be able to deal with the Epson format, I
believe. They have a free trial version.
The 2252 scope also has a GPIB port but I don't know
if it outputs the printer data. I have a Sparkfun
GPIB/USB dongle but that may not be of any use if
there is no printer data on the GPIB port.
It almost certainly will support dumping HPGL or Epson data to GPIB.
-- john, KE5FX
How about a "rubber-mirror", adaptive optics? We use this on our
large telescopes to overcome the atmospheric scintillation, otherwise
known as speckle-patterns. Works exceedingly well...
Atmospheric turbulence can be described by a Kolmogorov distribution,
or equivalently as a chaotic attractor basin of fractal dimension
between 6 and 7. Hence a feedback Perceptron neural network can be
trained on the speckle sequences and this also works very well.
That's how we did it on the Steward Observatory 90-inch.
Dr. David McClain
Chief Technical Officer
Refined Audiometrics Laboratory
4391 N. Camino Ferreo
Tucson, AZ 85750
email: dbm@refined-audiometrics.com
phone: 1.520.390.3995
web: http://refined-audiometrics.com
On Nov 3, 2010, at 11:10, Michael Baker wrote:
Timenutters--
The question was asked-- Why can't a large aperture
high-resolution optic be used to locate bullet holes
in a target at 800 yards?
Consider this--: I often shoot at targets on the
600 yard berm at the Manatee Range (near Bradenton,
FL). Typically, by 11AM the atmospheric shimmering
mirage distortion makes even the 4" target hard to see.
By 1PM the use of any rifle scope magnification
greater than around 10X is an exercise in futility.
Often, the mirage is severe enough that even the
12" steel plates are hard to find through a 10X
scope.
.30" holes in a target...? No way.
-----------------
Other questions that were asked: To what degree of
accuracy can the 800 yard distance be measured?
I have a laser range-finder which has been verified
to be within +/- 20 inches out to 1000 yards (the
U of F college of Engineering has a series of distance
marker posts set up for some research they were doing).
What kind of accuracy is expected for measuring bullet
velocity at the shooting bench and downrange? I have
a set of Oehler Research sky-screen chronographs that
use a 10MHz crystal for clocking the counting registers.
The projectiles start out at roughly between 2750 FPS and
3100 fps and end up downrange not slower than around
1800 fps. Assume sky-screen clocking ambiguities of
only a couple of clock pulses.
As an aside, projectiles whose velocity drops to
sub-sonic at 800 yds are of no interest to me.
The transition from super-sonic to sub-sonic generally
includes conditions that create inaccuracy.
I am VERY grateful for the feedback on this topic!
A couple of innovative suggestions from list members
have given me food for thought and I am going
to pursue looking into them.
My first chore is to investigate what kind of pulse
rise-times I get from a selection of inexpensive
ultrasonic sensors when a supersonic bullet passes
within a couple of feet from them. I have a Tek
2252 scope that I can place downrange to look at the
sensors with but storing the waveform for examination
may be a problem (no one seems to have volunteered to
stand downrange monitoring the scope screen!)
The Tek 2252 has a Centronix screen-capture printer
output but it is an Epson FX format and I have no
idea if any current printers at the local Office Mart
are compatible with the Epson FX data format. Anyone
on the TimeNuts list have any thoughts on this?
The 2252 scope also has a GPIB port but I don't know
if it outputs the printer data. I have a Sparkfun
GPIB/USB dongle but that may not be of any use if
there is no printer data on the GPIB port.
Mike Baker
-------------------
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/
time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it yourself. Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
After each shot you need to haul a new batch down range. How many trips do you think you would make successfully ...
I know, this is going to tie it all back into the dreaded time of death thread ... yikes ... did I do that ....
Bob
On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:55 PM, William H. Fite wrote:
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it yourself. Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts-bounces@febo.com wrote on 11/03/2010 05:55:16 PM:
Date:
11/03/2010 05:55 PM
Subject:
Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Sent by:
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it
yourself. Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
But it's too sensitive - a fly landing on the dry crystals will do.
Joe Gwinn
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/
listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
Roughly speaking, you know the distance to 0.1%. If the electronics are good to 0.01% they aren't going to contribute a significant amount of error. A fairly modest bare crystal will do quite nicely for the time base. No need to go any further. If you want to go time-nutty, put in a cell phone TCXO at both ends. That will easily get you sub 0.001%. In all cases a simple adjustment to "net" them together would be required every so often (yearly ...).
The only real issue left is how to sync the counter at the far end to the "start time". The RF link sounds like a good candidate for the job.
Bob
On Nov 3, 2010, at 2:10 PM, Michael Baker wrote:
Timenutters--
The question was asked-- Why can't a large aperture
high-resolution optic be used to locate bullet holes
in a target at 800 yards?
Consider this--: I often shoot at targets on the
600 yard berm at the Manatee Range (near Bradenton,
FL). Typically, by 11AM the atmospheric shimmering
mirage distortion makes even the 4" target hard to see.
By 1PM the use of any rifle scope magnification
greater than around 10X is an exercise in futility.
Often, the mirage is severe enough that even the
12" steel plates are hard to find through a 10X
scope.
.30" holes in a target...? No way.
Other questions that were asked: To what degree of
accuracy can the 800 yard distance be measured?
I have a laser range-finder which has been verified
to be within +/- 20 inches out to 1000 yards (the
U of F college of Engineering has a series of distance
marker posts set up for some research they were doing).
What kind of accuracy is expected for measuring bullet
velocity at the shooting bench and downrange? I have
a set of Oehler Research sky-screen chronographs that
use a 10MHz crystal for clocking the counting registers.
The projectiles start out at roughly between 2750 FPS and
3100 fps and end up downrange not slower than around
1800 fps. Assume sky-screen clocking ambiguities of
only a couple of clock pulses.
As an aside, projectiles whose velocity drops to
sub-sonic at 800 yds are of no interest to me.
The transition from super-sonic to sub-sonic generally
includes conditions that create inaccuracy.
I am VERY grateful for the feedback on this topic!
A couple of innovative suggestions from list members
have given me food for thought and I am going
to pursue looking into them.
My first chore is to investigate what kind of pulse
rise-times I get from a selection of inexpensive
ultrasonic sensors when a supersonic bullet passes
within a couple of feet from them. I have a Tek
2252 scope that I can place downrange to look at the
sensors with but storing the waveform for examination
may be a problem (no one seems to have volunteered to
stand downrange monitoring the scope screen!)
The Tek 2252 has a Centronix screen-capture printer
output but it is an Epson FX format and I have no
idea if any current printers at the local Office Mart
are compatible with the Epson FX data format. Anyone
on the TimeNuts list have any thoughts on this?
The 2252 scope also has a GPIB port but I don't know
if it outputs the printer data. I have a Sparkfun
GPIB/USB dongle but that may not be of any use if
there is no printer data on the GPIB port.
Mike Baker
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Yep. Makes life interesting. [?]
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Joseph M Gwinn gwinn@raytheon.com wrote:
time-nuts-bounces@febo.com wrote on 11/03/2010 05:55:16 PM:
Date:
11/03/2010 05:55 PM
Subject:
Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Sent by:
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it
yourself. Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
But it's too sensitive - a fly landing on the dry crystals will do.
Joe Gwinn
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/
listinfo/time-nuts
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time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
Well, I really have not contributed much if anything to this thread, and
this will be no exception. However, it does remind me of my youth and
specifically of some of my non electronics related activities. Of course,
what I am about to disclose below, today would label me a terrorist.
In the late 50's and early 60's besides electronics, a bunch of my friends
and I were also interested in explosives and the reactions that various
chemical combinations could bring. All of the required ingredients were
available in any drug store, off the shelf. None of our interests had to do
with actually creating havoc, or harm, but just the ability to do them. The
now censored "The Anarchist Cookbook" is a joke compared to what we used to
improvise, and, no one ever got hurt.
What triggered me to respond to this post was the explosion upon impact
statement. I devised a very unique, at the time, device that worked just the
way I wanted. I had a pump action .22 caliber air pistol, on which I made a
mount to place a rifle scope. It was awesome. Anyway, the .22 pellets were
hollow, so, inside, in the very front, I place the tip of a self igniting
match and followed it with gunpowder. Gunpowder of course was readily
available either from bullets (shot gun) or I just made it. Then I epoxied
the end to seal it. Overnight they were ready to go. Real neat. When shot,
upon impact, they of course would explode. Since at the time I was
considered one of the "brains" at high school, and all my teachers were my
buddies, they had no objection to me having this pistol in my briefcase at
school. Heck, I even was a baby sitter for a lot of their kids, and, of
course, I repaired their broken TVs and radios. I even helped one build a
house. The last several years of HS, a lot of my teachers signed my yearbook
as "To 007". I still have those yearbooks, and the best is the one where one
teacher signed it "To 007 - From Dr. No."
I better save the more volatile experiments and adventures for another time,
as this has nothing to do with time-nuts, other than to prove that besides
time, we are all kind of nuts. Regards - Mike
Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc.
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960 office
908-901-9193 cell
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bill Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 11/3/2010 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
And be sure to wear gloves to prevent direct skin absorption of the
nitro....
(usually not mentioned on the MSDS.)
Other wise you may loose some time.
Stan, W1LE
There's always nitroglycerin. I've heard it reacts well to vibration.
--
Mike
On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:55 PM, William H. Fite wrote:
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it yourself. Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Time nuts,
Just recently started my Z3801 in my new location and noticed the following discrepancy....
The unit is running more then 145 Hrs from the new start up.....and the "life time" display from the starting time just shows 48 " digit" more time......in other words:
started at life time 13917 and after 145Hrs it shows 13965......
what is the meaning of the "life time" display / windows/.....
Please advise.
Many thanks ,
Ernie.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Conlen michael.conlen@ncf.edu
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:54 am
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
There's always nitroglycerin. I've heard it reacts well to vibration.
ike
On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:55 PM, William H. Fite wrote:
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it yourself. Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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nd follow the instructions there.
I can't find it in the manual but I read somewhere that each tic of the
lifetime counter is 3 hours.
Doug
K8ZN
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-
bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of ernieperes@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:23 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801 Life time
Hi Time nuts,
Just recently started my Z3801 in my new location and noticed the
following
discrepancy....
The unit is running more then 145 Hrs from the new start up.....and the
"life
time" display from the starting time just shows 48 " digit" more
time......in
other words:
started at life time 13917 and after 145Hrs it shows 13965......
what is the meaning of the "life time" display / windows/.....
Please advise.
Many thanks ,
Ernie.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Conlen michael.conlen@ncf.edu
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-
nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:54 am
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
There's always nitroglycerin. I've heard it reacts well to vibration.
ike
On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:55 PM, William H. Fite wrote:
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it yourself.
Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid is a
sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet hits a
target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy a small
quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be detonated by the
impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this over the area of the
target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash with a very
fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate for the average
10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps you
can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a batch of
nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do in the fifties.
Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
ime-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com o unsubscribe, go to
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nd follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
Hi
It is in odd units. It's also sort of a meaningless number. There is no obvious wear out mechanism in a Z3801. If anything they should get better the longer they are on power.
Bob
On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:22 PM, ernieperes@aol.com wrote:
Hi Time nuts,
Just recently started my Z3801 in my new location and noticed the following discrepancy....
The unit is running more then 145 Hrs from the new start up.....and the "life time" display from the starting time just shows 48 " digit" more time......in other words:
started at life time 13917 and after 145Hrs it shows 13965......
what is the meaning of the "life time" display / windows/.....
Please advise.
Many thanks ,
Ernie.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Conlen michael.conlen@ncf.edu
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:54 am
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
There's always nitroglycerin. I've heard it reacts well to vibration.
ike
On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:55 PM, William H. Fite wrote:
Nitrogen triiodide is safer, cheaper, and you can make it yourself. Put on
the target wet, hang it while still wet, let it dry...
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Bill Hawkins bill@iaxs.net wrote:
Actually, some old dynamite that is leaking an oily liquid
is a sure-fire way to get a flash. Just don't drop it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hawkins [mailto:bill@iaxs.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...
Group,
I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've
contributed to others :^)
If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for
you!
Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this
over the area of the target that you intend to hit.
When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate
for the average 10X scope and photosensor.
No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare.
Yours for more creative solutions,
Bill Hawkins
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
ime-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
o unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
nd follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I never saw the original message because, apparently, it was off-topic
posted in one of the noisy threads I was deleting. But anyway...
From the similar GPS 58503B manual:
:DIAGnostic:LIFetime:COUNt? RESPONSE
Returns the lifetime count, indicating the total powered-on time.
Range of the integer is 0 to 4,294,967,296 with a resolution of 1. Each
count
represents three hours of operation.
If I did the math right, that allows for about 490,000 years. Probably a
bit more than necessary.
The OP said,
"started at life time 13917 and after 145Hrs it shows 13965"
So that would be 13965 - 13917 = 48 x3 = 144 hrs
13965 x 3 = 41860 or about 4 3/4 years of on time.
On 11/3/2010 5:58 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
It is in odd units. It's also sort of a meaningless number. There is no obvious wear out mechanism in a Z3801. If anything they should get better the longer they are on power.
Bob
On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:22 PM, ernieperes@aol.com wrote:
Hi Time nuts,
Just recently started my Z3801 in my new location and noticed the following discrepancy....
The unit is running more then 145 Hrs from the new start up.....and the "life time" display from the starting time just shows 48 " digit" more time......in other words:
started at life time 13917 and after 145Hrs it shows 13965......
what is the meaning of the "life time" display / windows/.....
Please advise.
Many thanks ,
Ernie.
Michael Conlen wrote:
There's always nitroglycerin. I've heard it reacts well to vibration.
nitromethane is much more readily available and also shock sensitive.
Cyanoacrylate debonder. or glowplug fuel
Hi,
many thanks to everybody who responded...... now everything is clear...... thanks a lot.
Best regards,
Ernie.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rex rexa@sonic.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 2:54 am
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801 Life time
I never saw the original message because, apparently, it was off-topic posted in one of the noisy threads I was deleting. But anyway...
From the similar GPS 58503B manual:
:DIAGnostic:LIFetime:COUNt? RESPONSE
Returns the lifetime count, indicating the total powered-on time.
Range of the integer is 0 to 4,294,967,296 with a resolution of 1. Each count
represents three hours of operation.
If I did the math right, that allows for about 490,000 years. Probably a bit more than necessary.
The OP said,
"started at life time 13917 and after 145Hrs it shows 13965"
So that would be 13965 - 13917 = 48 x3 = 144 hrs
13965 x 3 = 41860 or about 4 3/4 years of on time.
On 11/3/2010 5:58 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
It is in odd units. It's also sort of a meaningless number. There is no obvious wear out mechanism in a Z3801. If anything they should get better the longer they are on power.
Bob
On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:22 PM, ernieperes@aol.com wrote:
Hi Time nuts,
Just recently started my Z3801 in my new location and noticed the following discrepancy....
The unit is running more then 145 Hrs from the new start up.....and the "life time" display from the starting time just shows 48 " digit" more time......in other words:
started at life time 13917 and after 145Hrs it shows 13965......
what is the meaning of the "life time" display / windows/.....
Please advise.
Many thanks ,
Ernie.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Here are some exploding targets that are legal:
http://www.tannerite.com/
A friend uses them and swears by them.
On 11/3/2010 11:28 PM, jimlux wrote:
Michael Conlen wrote:
There's always nitroglycerin. I've heard it reacts well to vibration.
nitromethane is much more readily available and also shock sensitive.
Cyanoacrylate debonder. or glowplug fuel
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.