Empathy List Archives

J

Joe@JRE.com

Mon, Apr 16, 2001 3:41 PM

This is clearly a case where electronic navigation would have completely
prevented this error. I am bringing this up, not to flog an already dead
horse about the advantages of ENS. I want to reiterate to those who perhaps
are not using ENS yet, or are looking at all the pros and cons.

The peace of mind that a good ENS system can provide is its number one
advantage. In the case that Garrett describes, the possible confusion about
the buoys, the following of another smaller craft, the confusion about the
depth of alternative passages... all of this anxiety is removed because you
can see, within a few feet, exactly where you are on the chart. And the
chart gives you the clear location of the safe fairway.

There are so many times that I have approached an unfamiliar entrance or
passageway with high anxiety as I try to visually locate my position on a
paper chart by dead reckoning. "Is that the red buoy shown on the chart?
If it is, it seems to be in the wrong place! Is that the point of land that
should be off the port bow? Or is it that other point just to the left?
This channel marker on the chart seems to be missing from that island!
Maybe it's the wrong island? That other boat is going through a different
place, is he right ? Am I in the wrong place?". The pucker factor
increases by the minute.

All of this anxiety goes away with a good ENS system. That's worth the cost
all by itself IMO. Now if it keeps you off the rocks you might otherwise
have struck, that's obviously a significant bonus <G>.

Joe Engel

-----Original Message-----
From: Garrett Lambert [mailto:e16@telus.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:34 PM
To: TWL
Subject: TWL: Jonah?
<SNIP>

This boat, too, was inside the channel buoy in a very rocky area. Small
craft traverse it without difficulty, but larger ones need to both have
local knowledge of the several unmarked channels and exercise great care.
Frankly, for the few seconds it saves, it's (now) clearly not worth the
risk. I suspect this driver tried to follow a small boat, or misread the
channel marker. Unlike the markers in John Passage, this buoy could easily
be mistaken for a fairway buoy.

Cheers, Garrett

This is clearly a case where electronic navigation would have completely prevented this error. I am bringing this up, not to flog an already dead horse about the advantages of ENS. I want to reiterate to those who perhaps are not using ENS yet, or are looking at all the pros and cons. The peace of mind that a good ENS system can provide is its number one advantage. In the case that Garrett describes, the possible confusion about the buoys, the following of another smaller craft, the confusion about the depth of alternative passages... all of this anxiety is removed because you can see, within a few feet, exactly where you are on the chart. And the chart gives you the clear location of the safe fairway. There are so many times that I have approached an unfamiliar entrance or passageway with high anxiety as I try to visually locate my position on a paper chart by dead reckoning. "Is that the red buoy shown on the chart? If it is, it seems to be in the wrong place! Is that the point of land that should be off the port bow? Or is it that other point just to the left? This channel marker on the chart seems to be missing from that island! Maybe it's the wrong island? That other boat is going through a different place, is he right ? Am I in the wrong place?". The pucker factor increases by the minute. All of this anxiety goes away with a good ENS system. That's worth the cost all by itself IMO. Now if it keeps you off the rocks you might otherwise have struck, that's obviously a significant bonus <G>. Joe Engel -----Original Message----- From: Garrett Lambert [mailto:e16@telus.net] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:34 PM To: TWL Subject: TWL: Jonah? <SNIP> This boat, too, was inside the channel buoy in a very rocky area. Small craft traverse it without difficulty, but larger ones need to both have local knowledge of the several unmarked channels and exercise great care. Frankly, for the few seconds it saves, it's (now) clearly not worth the risk. I suspect this driver tried to follow a small boat, or misread the channel marker. Unlike the markers in John Passage, this buoy could easily be mistaken for a fairway buoy. Cheers, Garrett

M

mso@pobox.com

Mon, Apr 16, 2001 6:29 PM

To us, the advantages of ENS are so obvious that it's kind of surprising
that there's so much discussion about it. Yes, we carry all necessary paper
charts, and yes, we're proficient at coastal piloting, but why would anyone
not want to be positive about their actual position.

We have made friends with three couples who cruise B.C. and SE Alaska
together in their respective boats. They have been doing this for the last
40 years, and their knowledge of the area is encyclopedic. They are all
absolutely fearless gunkholers. Last year, one the couples installed ENS,
the first of the group to do so. The group had decided to take a look at
Mirror Cove on the west side of Baranof Island. It has an extremely
torturous entrance where, at one place, a boat must me turned in its own
length to negotiate a curve in the channel. The couple with ENS was the
trailing boat. The first two boats agreed that they had found the proper
entrance and started in. When the ENS equipped boat reached a position to
determine where the first two were headed, he stopped the parade, and the
first two boats backed out into safer water. It was obvious to the ENS
equipped couple that the wrong entrance had been chosen. This year, the
other two boats have installed ENS.

Mike & Lily O'Reilly
Voyageur, GB-42-1311
Portland, OR

Joe Engel wrote:
:Now if it keeps you off the rocks you might otherwise
:have struck, that's obviously a significant bonus.

To us, the advantages of ENS are so obvious that it's kind of surprising that there's so much discussion about it. Yes, we carry all necessary paper charts, and yes, we're proficient at coastal piloting, but why would anyone not want to be *positive* about their actual position. We have made friends with three couples who cruise B.C. and SE Alaska together in their respective boats. They have been doing this for the last 40 years, and their knowledge of the area is encyclopedic. They are all absolutely fearless gunkholers. Last year, one the couples installed ENS, the first of the group to do so. The group had decided to take a look at Mirror Cove on the west side of Baranof Island. It has an extremely torturous entrance where, at one place, a boat must me turned in its own length to negotiate a curve in the channel. The couple with ENS was the trailing boat. The first two boats agreed that they had found the proper entrance and started in. When the ENS equipped boat reached a position to determine where the first two were headed, he stopped the parade, and the first two boats backed out into safer water. It was obvious to the ENS equipped couple that the wrong entrance had been chosen. This year, the other two boats have installed ENS. Mike & Lily O'Reilly Voyageur, GB-42-1311 Portland, OR Joe Engel wrote: :Now if it keeps you off the rocks you might otherwise :have struck, that's obviously a significant bonus.

Y

yourcaptain@earthlink.net

Mon, Apr 16, 2001 8:41 PM

At 08:41 AM 4/16/01 -0700, you wrote:

This is clearly a case where electronic navigation would have completely
prevented this error. I am bringing this up, not to flog an already dead
horse about the advantages of ENS. I want to reiterate to those who perhaps
are not using ENS yet, or are looking at all the pros and cons.

The peace of mind that a good ENS system can provide is its number one
advantage. In the case that Garrett describes, the possible confusion about
the buoys, the following of another smaller craft, the confusion about the
depth of alternative passages... all of this anxiety is removed because you
can see, within a few feet, exactly where you are on the chart. And the
chart gives you the clear location of the safe fairway.

There are so many times that I have approached an unfamiliar entrance or
passageway with high anxiety as I try to visually locate my position on a
paper chart by dead reckoning. "Is that the red buoy shown on the chart?
If it is, it seems to be in the wrong place! Is that the point of land that
should be off the port bow? Or is it that other point just to the left?
This channel marker on the chart seems to be missing from that island!
Maybe it's the wrong island? That other boat is going through a different
place, is he right ? Am I in the wrong place?". The pucker factor
increases by the minute.

All of this anxiety goes away with a good ENS system. That's worth the cost
all by itself IMO. Now if it keeps you off the rocks you might otherwise
have struck, that's obviously a significant bonus <G>.

Joe Engel

---======================
Hi Joe ----------- Your lucky you wern't boating before electronic charts,
or if you were you must have had the sweats and not much fun. Better double
up on everything in case of failure, hate to see you go back to all that
apprehension and confusion you are expressing in your post. You might think
about a class in Advanced Piloting at a local Power Squadron and regain
some confidence in piloting with paper charts, to use your words relieve
you of all that anxiety.

I am posting this so that new boaters don't think you need all that
electronic junk to enjoy boating.
You should always have confidence in the old fashion way, using your brain
instead of a CD Rom.

I'm already ducking.......
.
Captain Al Pilvinis

"M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47
2630 N.E. 41st Street
Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064
Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666
Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net
Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain

At 08:41 AM 4/16/01 -0700, you wrote: >This is clearly a case where electronic navigation would have completely >prevented this error. I am bringing this up, not to flog an already dead >horse about the advantages of ENS. I want to reiterate to those who perhaps >are not using ENS yet, or are looking at all the pros and cons. > >The peace of mind that a good ENS system can provide is its number one >advantage. In the case that Garrett describes, the possible confusion about >the buoys, the following of another smaller craft, the confusion about the >depth of alternative passages... all of this anxiety is removed because you >can see, within a few feet, exactly where you are on the chart. And the >chart gives you the clear location of the safe fairway. > >There are so many times that I have approached an unfamiliar entrance or >passageway with high anxiety as I try to visually locate my position on a >paper chart by dead reckoning. "Is that the red buoy shown on the chart? >If it is, it seems to be in the wrong place! Is that the point of land that >should be off the port bow? Or is it that other point just to the left? >This channel marker on the chart seems to be missing from that island! >Maybe it's the wrong island? That other boat is going through a different >place, is he right ? Am I in the wrong place?". The pucker factor >increases by the minute. > >All of this anxiety goes away with a good ENS system. That's worth the cost >all by itself IMO. Now if it keeps you off the rocks you might otherwise >have struck, that's obviously a significant bonus <G>. > >Joe Engel ======================================================= Hi Joe ----------- Your lucky you wern't boating before electronic charts, or if you were you must have had the sweats and not much fun. Better double up on everything in case of failure, hate to see you go back to all that apprehension and confusion you are expressing in your post. You might think about a class in Advanced Piloting at a local Power Squadron and regain some confidence in piloting with paper charts, to use your words relieve you of all that anxiety. I am posting this so that new boaters don't think you need all that electronic junk to enjoy boating. You should always have confidence in the old fashion way, using your brain instead of a CD Rom. I'm already ducking....... . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain

Y

yourcaptain@earthlink.net

Mon, Apr 16, 2001 10:42 PM

At 11:29 AM 4/16/01 -0700, you wrote:

To us, the advantages of ENS are so obvious that it's kind of surprising
that there's so much discussion about it. Yes, we carry all necessary paper
charts, and yes, we're proficient at coastal piloting, but why would anyone
not want to be positive about their actual position.

---============================
I need all the help I can get, but I don't throw a fit if I have to use
charts. Perhaps I have used them enough and cruised enough to be able to
find my position easier than some others.
I have electronics on board that I use all the time.
Hey whatever works.
.
Captain Al Pilvinis

"M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47
2630 N.E. 41st Street
Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064
Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666
Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net
Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain

At 11:29 AM 4/16/01 -0700, you wrote: >To us, the advantages of ENS are so obvious that it's kind of surprising >that there's so much discussion about it. Yes, we carry all necessary paper >charts, and yes, we're proficient at coastal piloting, but why would anyone >not want to be *positive* about their actual position. ============================================================= I need all the help I can get, but I don't throw a fit if I have to use charts. Perhaps I have used them enough and cruised enough to be able to find my position easier than some others. I have electronics on board that I use all the time. Hey whatever works. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain

P

pjr@netsense.net

Tue, Apr 17, 2001 1:01 AM

The last thing I would throw overboard is the CAP'N!

When you live aboard and travel alone you don't have time to mess with
triangles and charts. I have 2 laptops, helm and bridge with separate
power supplies and separate GPS units.

                                Regards....

Phil Rosch
M/V "Curmudgeon"
Currently Moored in Wickford RI.

This is clearly a case where electronic navigation would have completely
prevented this error. I am bringing this up, not to flog an already
dead
horse about the advantages of ENS. I want to reiterate to those who
perhaps
are not using ENS yet, or are looking at all the pros and cons.

The peace of mind that a good ENS system can provide is its number one
advantage.

The last thing I would throw overboard is the CAP'N! When you live aboard and travel alone you don't have time to mess with triangles and charts. I have 2 laptops, helm and bridge with separate power supplies and separate GPS units. Regards.... Phil Rosch M/V "Curmudgeon" Currently Moored in Wickford RI. This is clearly a case where electronic navigation would have completely prevented this error. I am bringing this up, not to flog an already dead horse about the advantages of ENS. I want to reiterate to those who perhaps are not using ENS yet, or are looking at all the pros and cons. The peace of mind that a good ENS system can provide is its number one advantage.

trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

TWL: RE: Jonah? - Advantages of ENS