SpectraCom SecureSync1200 Questions
I have recently stumbled across a pair of SpectraCom SecureSync 1200 units
that I have been restoring. One is a 1200-003 (AC powered, TCXO, GNSS),
and one is a 1200-233 (AC/DC powered, standard Rubidium, GNSS).
A touch of backgound: One had a dead CF card, but I was able to clone the
card from the other unit and updated both to the latest software. The
1200-003 came equipped with a Trimble RES-SMT GG, which works correctly,
however the 1200-233 came with a Trimble Revolution-T which does detect the
antenna, but never sees any satellites. I am obviously more interested in
using the unit with the Rubidium Oscillator, so I swapped the GNSS modules
around and the -223 unit is now working.
On to the questions:
-
I am seeing more instability on the Rubidium Oscillator than I
expected. I am regularly seeing phase errors of ±100ns. I have never
worked with a Rb clock before, but I would expect smaller errors than
that. Is this normal? -
I purchased a uBlox M8T GPS module off of eBay, as I know that the more
recently manufactured units use these and should be supported. It showed
up this morning and I replaced the bad Revolution-T, but the system does
not seem to recognize it at all. The uBlox module is in the exact same
form factor and dropped right in, but I do not know if it is incompatible
or if it is defective. I am unsure on how to test the unit externally.
The carrier board says WD22UGRC, and according to a random thread on
u-blox's forum, it shares the same pinout as the Trimble units. -
I intend to use the -233 unit as my primary timesource in my
homelab/shack. I only have AC power connected to it, so it is constantly
complaining about a lack of DC input. I have been trying to find a way to
disable this alarm which also translates to a red light on the front of the
unit. Short of hooking up a 48v power supply, is there any way to get
around this?
I was hoping that someone amongst this group had some experience with these
units, or their NetClock 9400 series sister that might be able to shed some
light on this. I appreciate any help!
Rob KB1IPB
Hi
Each of these modules (GPS or GNSS) speaks its own “language”. Brand T does not talk the same way brand U talks. This may even change between generations. An older brand U may not have quite the same command set a newer brand U device does. Yes, there are basic commands that likely work on multiple devices. This stuff is “on top of that”.
The MCU in the “gizmo” chats with the module to get things going. It then pulls information from the module to see that all is well. Inevitably this gets you into the custom side of communicating with the module.
Bottom line: You need a module that speaks what the device expects it to speak.
Bob
On Sep 26, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Robert Krenicki via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
I have recently stumbled across a pair of SpectraCom SecureSync 1200 units
that I have been restoring. One is a 1200-003 (AC powered, TCXO, GNSS),
and one is a 1200-233 (AC/DC powered, standard Rubidium, GNSS).
A touch of backgound: One had a dead CF card, but I was able to clone the
card from the other unit and updated both to the latest software. The
1200-003 came equipped with a Trimble RES-SMT GG, which works correctly,
however the 1200-233 came with a Trimble Revolution-T which does detect the
antenna, but never sees any satellites. I am obviously more interested in
using the unit with the Rubidium Oscillator, so I swapped the GNSS modules
around and the -223 unit is now working.
On to the questions:
-
I am seeing more instability on the Rubidium Oscillator than I
expected. I am regularly seeing phase errors of ±100ns. I have never
worked with a Rb clock before, but I would expect smaller errors than
that. Is this normal? -
I purchased a uBlox M8T GPS module off of eBay, as I know that the more
recently manufactured units use these and should be supported. It showed
up this morning and I replaced the bad Revolution-T, but the system does
not seem to recognize it at all. The uBlox module is in the exact same
form factor and dropped right in, but I do not know if it is incompatible
or if it is defective. I am unsure on how to test the unit externally.
The carrier board says WD22UGRC, and according to a random thread on
u-blox's forum, it shares the same pinout as the Trimble units. -
I intend to use the -233 unit as my primary timesource in my
homelab/shack. I only have AC power connected to it, so it is constantly
complaining about a lack of DC input. I have been trying to find a way to
disable this alarm which also translates to a red light on the front of the
unit. Short of hooking up a 48v power supply, is there any way to get
around this?
I was hoping that someone amongst this group had some experience with these
units, or their NetClock 9400 series sister that might be able to shed some
light on this. I appreciate any help!
Rob KB1IPB
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
I do realize that is normally the case, however SpectraCom switched to a
uBlox M8T for this platform some time ago. This is from the release notes
for firmware v5.4.0: "NetClock now supports u-blox LEA-M8T GNSS receiver
boards. Trimble receivers continue to be supported, as well." The module
that I purchased does have a LEA-M8T on it.
Other than perhaps that the unit may be defective, I do wonder if it is an
incompatible firmware issue. The release notes reference the 3.01 TIM 1.10
firmware, but there are a few newer firmwares from uBlox at this point. It
may be just "too new" for it is know what to do with it. I just stumbled
across a thread on eevblog about this module and the required firmware, so
I am going to go down that rabbit hole for the moment.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 1:32 PM Bob Camp via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Hi
Each of these modules (GPS or GNSS) speaks its own “language”. Brand T
does not talk the same way brand U talks. This may even change between
generations. An older brand U may not have quite the same command set a
newer brand U device does. Yes, there are basic commands that likely work
on multiple devices. This stuff is “on top of that”.
The MCU in the “gizmo” chats with the module to get things going. It then
pulls information from the module to see that all is well. Inevitably this
gets you into the custom side of communicating with the module.
Bottom line: You need a module that speaks what the device expects it to
speak.
Bob
On Sep 26, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Robert Krenicki via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
I have recently stumbled across a pair of SpectraCom SecureSync 1200
units
that I have been restoring. One is a 1200-003 (AC powered, TCXO, GNSS),
and one is a 1200-233 (AC/DC powered, standard Rubidium, GNSS).
A touch of backgound: One had a dead CF card, but I was able to clone the
card from the other unit and updated both to the latest software. The
1200-003 came equipped with a Trimble RES-SMT GG, which works correctly,
however the 1200-233 came with a Trimble Revolution-T which does detect
the
antenna, but never sees any satellites. I am obviously more interested
in
using the unit with the Rubidium Oscillator, so I swapped the GNSS
modules
around and the -223 unit is now working.
On to the questions:
-
I am seeing more instability on the Rubidium Oscillator than I
expected. I am regularly seeing phase errors of ±100ns. I have never
worked with a Rb clock before, but I would expect smaller errors than
that. Is this normal? -
I purchased a uBlox M8T GPS module off of eBay, as I know that the
more
recently manufactured units use these and should be supported. It showed
up this morning and I replaced the bad Revolution-T, but the system does
not seem to recognize it at all. The uBlox module is in the exact same
form factor and dropped right in, but I do not know if it is incompatible
or if it is defective. I am unsure on how to test the unit externally.
The carrier board says WD22UGRC, and according to a random thread on
u-blox's forum, it shares the same pinout as the Trimble units.
- I intend to use the -233 unit as my primary timesource in my
homelab/shack. I only have AC power connected to it, so it is constantly
complaining about a lack of DC input. I have been trying to find a way
to
disable this alarm which also translates to a red light on the front of
the
unit. Short of hooking up a 48v power supply, is there any way to get
around this?
I was hoping that someone amongst this group had some experience with
these
units, or their NetClock 9400 series sister that might be able to shed
some
light on this. I appreciate any help!
Rob KB1IPB
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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You can download a PC app called u-center from u-blox support which speaks via the serial link to their modules. In my experience with a genuine u-blox module it was easy to set up and gives great visibility and controllability of the device. Maybe you could use it to check out the device you have. (Full disclosure: I used to work for u-blox though not on their GNSS products.)
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Krenicki via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2024 7:05 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Robert Krenicki robert.krenicki@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: SpectraCom SecureSync1200 Questions
I do realize that is normally the case, however SpectraCom switched to a uBlox M8T for this platform some time ago. This is from the release notes
for firmware v5.4.0: "NetClock now supports u-blox LEA-M8T GNSS receiver
boards. Trimble receivers continue to be supported, as well." The module that I purchased does have a LEA-M8T on it.
Other than perhaps that the unit may be defective, I do wonder if it is an incompatible firmware issue. The release notes reference the 3.01 TIM 1.10 firmware, but there are a few newer firmwares from uBlox at this point. It may be just "too new" for it is know what to do with it. I just stumbled across a thread on eevblog about this module and the required firmware, so I am going to go down that rabbit hole for the moment.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 1:32 PM Bob Camp via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Hi
Each of these modules (GPS or GNSS) speaks its own “language”. Brand T
does not talk the same way brand U talks. This may even change between
generations. An older brand U may not have quite the same command set
a newer brand U device does. Yes, there are basic commands that likely
work on multiple devices. This stuff is “on top of that”.
The MCU in the “gizmo” chats with the module to get things going. It
then pulls information from the module to see that all is well.
Inevitably this gets you into the custom side of communicating with the module.
Bottom line: You need a module that speaks what the device expects it
to speak.
Bob
On Sep 26, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Robert Krenicki via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
I have recently stumbled across a pair of SpectraCom SecureSync 1200
units
that I have been restoring. One is a 1200-003 (AC powered, TCXO,
GNSS), and one is a 1200-233 (AC/DC powered, standard Rubidium, GNSS).
A touch of backgound: One had a dead CF card, but I was able to
clone the card from the other unit and updated both to the latest
software. The
1200-003 came equipped with a Trimble RES-SMT GG, which works
correctly, however the 1200-233 came with a Trimble Revolution-T
which does detect
the
antenna, but never sees any satellites. I am obviously more
interested
in
using the unit with the Rubidium Oscillator, so I swapped the GNSS
modules
around and the -223 unit is now working.
On to the questions:
-
I am seeing more instability on the Rubidium Oscillator than I
expected. I am regularly seeing phase errors of ±100ns. I have
never worked with a Rb clock before, but I would expect smaller
errors than that. Is this normal? -
I purchased a uBlox M8T GPS module off of eBay, as I know that
the
more
recently manufactured units use these and should be supported. It
showed up this morning and I replaced the bad Revolution-T, but the
system does not seem to recognize it at all. The uBlox module is in
the exact same form factor and dropped right in, but I do not know
if it is incompatible or if it is defective. I am unsure on how to test the unit externally.
The carrier board says WD22UGRC, and according to a random thread on
u-blox's forum, it shares the same pinout as the Trimble units.
- I intend to use the -233 unit as my primary timesource in my
homelab/shack. I only have AC power connected to it, so it is
constantly complaining about a lack of DC input. I have been trying
to find a way
to
disable this alarm which also translates to a red light on the front
of
the
unit. Short of hooking up a 48v power supply, is there any way to get
around this?
I was hoping that someone amongst this group had some experience
with
these
units, or their NetClock 9400 series sister that might be able to
shed
some
light on this. I appreciate any help!
Rob KB1IPB
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe
send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send
an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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These are very similar to the NetClock 9483 series, though the
1200's have minor differences in hardware.
I can offer input on #2: The CPU's core firmware has to be updated
at the factory end (via the JTAG interface) to handle the M8T module.
Once that's done, you can only use an M8T. Trimble modules will no
longer work, period.
The good news is the manufacturer (now Safran Timing) is very good
about being reasonable when doing such things. Simply enter a support
ticket from this page:
https://safran-navigation-timing.com/support-hub/securesync-1200/
In said ticket, let them know you have a 1200 you'd like to send in
for a firmware update to handle the Ublox receiver module. Ask for
Russell Daykin (mention I sent you). ;-) Be sure to install said Ublox
module before you send it down. That way, they can test it in their lab.
As I recall, the basic charge for doing this is around $240 plus
shipping. Small price to pay for factory service on such well-built units.
Happy tweaking.
On 26-Sep-24 09:04, Robert Krenicki via time-nuts wrote:
I have recently stumbled across a pair of SpectraCom SecureSync 1200 units
that I have been restoring. One is a 1200-003 (AC powered, TCXO, GNSS),
and one is a 1200-233 (AC/DC powered, standard Rubidium, GNSS).
A touch of backgound: One had a dead CF card, but I was able to clone the
card from the other unit and updated both to the latest software. The
1200-003 came equipped with a Trimble RES-SMT GG, which works correctly,
however the 1200-233 came with a Trimble Revolution-T which does detect the
antenna, but never sees any satellites. I am obviously more interested in
using the unit with the Rubidium Oscillator, so I swapped the GNSS modules
around and the -223 unit is now working.
On to the questions:
-
I am seeing more instability on the Rubidium Oscillator than I
expected. I am regularly seeing phase errors of ±100ns. I have never
worked with a Rb clock before, but I would expect smaller errors than
that. Is this normal? -
I purchased a uBlox M8T GPS module off of eBay, as I know that the more
recently manufactured units use these and should be supported. It showed
up this morning and I replaced the bad Revolution-T, but the system does
not seem to recognize it at all. The uBlox module is in the exact same
form factor and dropped right in, but I do not know if it is incompatible
or if it is defective. I am unsure on how to test the unit externally.
The carrier board says WD22UGRC, and according to a random thread on
u-blox's forum, it shares the same pinout as the Trimble units. -
I intend to use the -233 unit as my primary timesource in my
homelab/shack. I only have AC power connected to it, so it is constantly
complaining about a lack of DC input. I have been trying to find a way to
disable this alarm which also translates to a red light on the front of the
unit. Short of hooking up a 48v power supply, is there any way to get
around this?
I was hoping that someone amongst this group had some experience with these
units, or their NetClock 9400 series sister that might be able to shed some
light on this. I appreciate any help!
Rob KB1IPB
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
That is very helpful, thank you! I take it that this firmware upgrade is
different from the timing processor FPGA upgrade that happens during system
updates?
I may just purchase a Trimble RES-SMT GG instead, as those cost about $10
which is far less than the cost to cycle it back through Safran. It would
be nice to have Galileo and BeiDou as additional reference sources, but I
really just want it to work at this point. I know that both systems work
correctly with the one good RES-SMT GG module that I have.
Do you have any insights on the other two questions? I am unsure if the
9400 series has the dual power option, but I know it can be equipped with
the Rubidium oscillator.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 9:49 PM Bruce Lane via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
These are very similar to the NetClock 9483 series, though the
1200's have minor differences in hardware.
I can offer input on #2: The CPU's core firmware has to be updated
at the factory end (via the JTAG interface) to handle the M8T module.
Once that's done, you can only use an M8T. Trimble modules will no
longer work, period.
The good news is the manufacturer (now Safran Timing) is very good
about being reasonable when doing such things. Simply enter a support
ticket from this page:
https://safran-navigation-timing.com/support-hub/securesync-1200/
In said ticket, let them know you have a 1200 you'd like to send in
for a firmware update to handle the Ublox receiver module. Ask for
Russell Daykin (mention I sent you). ;-) Be sure to install said Ublox
module before you send it down. That way, they can test it in their lab.
As I recall, the basic charge for doing this is around $240 plus
shipping. Small price to pay for factory service on such well-built units.
Happy tweaking.
On 26-Sep-24 09:04, Robert Krenicki via time-nuts wrote:
I have recently stumbled across a pair of SpectraCom SecureSync 1200
units
that I have been restoring. One is a 1200-003 (AC powered, TCXO, GNSS),
and one is a 1200-233 (AC/DC powered, standard Rubidium, GNSS).
A touch of backgound: One had a dead CF card, but I was able to clone the
card from the other unit and updated both to the latest software. The
1200-003 came equipped with a Trimble RES-SMT GG, which works correctly,
however the 1200-233 came with a Trimble Revolution-T which does detect
the
antenna, but never sees any satellites. I am obviously more interested
in
using the unit with the Rubidium Oscillator, so I swapped the GNSS
modules
around and the -223 unit is now working.
On to the questions:
-
I am seeing more instability on the Rubidium Oscillator than I
expected. I am regularly seeing phase errors of ±100ns. I have never
worked with a Rb clock before, but I would expect smaller errors than
that. Is this normal? -
I purchased a uBlox M8T GPS module off of eBay, as I know that the
more
recently manufactured units use these and should be supported. It showed
up this morning and I replaced the bad Revolution-T, but the system does
not seem to recognize it at all. The uBlox module is in the exact same
form factor and dropped right in, but I do not know if it is incompatible
or if it is defective. I am unsure on how to test the unit externally.
The carrier board says WD22UGRC, and according to a random thread on
u-blox's forum, it shares the same pinout as the Trimble units.
- I intend to use the -233 unit as my primary timesource in my
homelab/shack. I only have AC power connected to it, so it is constantly
complaining about a lack of DC input. I have been trying to find a way
to
disable this alarm which also translates to a red light on the front of
the
unit. Short of hooking up a 48v power supply, is there any way to get
around this?
I was hoping that someone amongst this group had some experience with
these
units, or their NetClock 9400 series sister that might be able to shed
some
light on this. I appreciate any help!
Rob KB1IPB
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
Hi, Robert,
On 26-Sep-24 19:35, Robert Krenicki via time-nuts wrote:
That is very helpful, thank you! I take it that this firmware upgrade is
different from the timing processor FPGA upgrade that happens during system
updates?
It is, yes. It's updating microcode on the processor side, which is
why the factory needs to do it (the code file was never made public, and
you need JTAG tools for the Coldfire CPUs to use it in any case).
Do you have any insights on the other two questions? I am unsure if the
9400 series has the dual power option, but I know it can be equipped with
the Rubidium oscillator.
No real insight on the rubidium. However, speaking from experience
on adding the dual power option: The trickiest part is finding the
correct DC/DC converter. Spectracom used a SynQor IQ36120QTC10NRS-G,
which is what the PC board is laid out for. In addition, you need to add
a couple of filter caps that aren't populated if the board didn't get
the DC option built in at the factory. The rear panel is cut for a
mil-spec connector, specifically MS3102A12-3P, for the DC input.
I hope this helps.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 9:49 PM Bruce Lane via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
These are very similar to the NetClock 9483 series, though the
1200's have minor differences in hardware.
I can offer input on #2: The CPU's core firmware has to be updated
at the factory end (via the JTAG interface) to handle the M8T module.
Once that's done, you can only use an M8T. Trimble modules will no
longer work, period.
The good news is the manufacturer (now Safran Timing) is very good
about being reasonable when doing such things. Simply enter a support
ticket from this page:
https://safran-navigation-timing.com/support-hub/securesync-1200/
In said ticket, let them know you have a 1200 you'd like to send in
for a firmware update to handle the Ublox receiver module. Ask for
Russell Daykin (mention I sent you). ;-) Be sure to install said Ublox
module before you send it down. That way, they can test it in their lab.
As I recall, the basic charge for doing this is around $240 plus
shipping. Small price to pay for factory service on such well-built units.
Happy tweaking.
On 26-Sep-24 09:04, Robert Krenicki via time-nuts wrote:
I have recently stumbled across a pair of SpectraCom SecureSync 1200
units
that I have been restoring. One is a 1200-003 (AC powered, TCXO, GNSS),
and one is a 1200-233 (AC/DC powered, standard Rubidium, GNSS).
A touch of backgound: One had a dead CF card, but I was able to clone the
card from the other unit and updated both to the latest software. The
1200-003 came equipped with a Trimble RES-SMT GG, which works correctly,
however the 1200-233 came with a Trimble Revolution-T which does detect
the
antenna, but never sees any satellites. I am obviously more interested
in
using the unit with the Rubidium Oscillator, so I swapped the GNSS
modules
around and the -223 unit is now working.
On to the questions:
-
I am seeing more instability on the Rubidium Oscillator than I
expected. I am regularly seeing phase errors of ±100ns. I have never
worked with a Rb clock before, but I would expect smaller errors than
that. Is this normal? -
I purchased a uBlox M8T GPS module off of eBay, as I know that the
more
recently manufactured units use these and should be supported. It showed
up this morning and I replaced the bad Revolution-T, but the system does
not seem to recognize it at all. The uBlox module is in the exact same
form factor and dropped right in, but I do not know if it is incompatible
or if it is defective. I am unsure on how to test the unit externally.
The carrier board says WD22UGRC, and according to a random thread on
u-blox's forum, it shares the same pinout as the Trimble units.
- I intend to use the -233 unit as my primary timesource in my
homelab/shack. I only have AC power connected to it, so it is constantly
complaining about a lack of DC input. I have been trying to find a way
to
disable this alarm which also translates to a red light on the front of
the
unit. Short of hooking up a 48v power supply, is there any way to get
around this?
I was hoping that someone amongst this group had some experience with
these
units, or their NetClock 9400 series sister that might be able to shed
some
light on this. I appreciate any help!
Rob KB1IPB
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
Does anybody have a CF card Image that I can write to a ne CF card?
The one I have has some corrupt blocks.
Thanks !!!!