Looking for 468-DC GOES receiver info
I was just fiddling with a 468-DC GOES receiver that had been knocked
out of alignment by last summer's hurricanes. Thanks to TVB for
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/468-dc/theory.htm
which helped immensely (particularly the bit about TP2 and the unlock LED).
I know GOES time is now in legacy mode with only +/-1 ms accuracy,
but I thought it would be fun to hook it up to an NTP server anyway.
I have satellite lock, time displayed, and 1 PPS and 1 kHz coming out the
back. However, I don't see anything on the IRIG output or the serial port.
(And the EXT OSC input is a mystery.)
Looking at the NTP driver, I tried connecting at 9600 8N1 and sending
various letters, but no response. (The port probed as DTE, so I used
a crossover cable.)
Does anyone have any use or debugging information or manuals?
Thanks!
Hi Kevin,
I can send you a 468-DC manual but you may have
missed the announcement that after 30 years the
GOES timecode was turned off. So you can still get
RF lock and the 100 Hz subcode is there there but
the NIST timecode portion of the timecode is no
longer present.
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/goesnotice.htm
If you're getting a UTC time out of yours let me know
(and East or West?); mine went off the air on Jan 1
and they're still dead.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: kevin-usenet@horizon.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 21:53
Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for 468-DC GOES receiver info
I was just fiddling with a 468-DC GOES receiver that had been knocked
out of alignment by last summer's hurricanes. Thanks to TVB for
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/468-dc/theory.htm
which helped immensely (particularly the bit about TP2 and the unlock
LED).
I know GOES time is now in legacy mode with only +/-1 ms accuracy,
but I thought it would be fun to hook it up to an NTP server anyway.
I have satellite lock, time displayed, and 1 PPS and 1 kHz coming out the
back. However, I don't see anything on the IRIG output or the serial
port.
(And the EXT OSC input is a mystery.)
Looking at the NTP driver, I tried connecting at 9600 8N1 and sending
various letters, but no response. (The port probed as DTE, so I used
a crossover cable.)
Does anyone have any use or debugging information or manuals?
Thanks!
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Tom -
If you remember I wrote to you about problems with my GOES 468DC problems
some months ago stating I lost lock. Well, after a few days it came back on.
Since then it has still been intermittent on the East bird. At one point
about a week ago I totally lost it long enough that the display went blank.
So, for a few days all there was were the blinking LEDs. Then, it
re-acquired, came up with the proper day and time and has been running ever
since. So, for now at least, it still seems to be working for me. Regards -
Mike
Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 8:42 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for 468-DC GOES receiver info
Hi Kevin,
I can send you a 468-DC manual but you may have
missed the announcement that after 30 years the
GOES timecode was turned off. So you can still get
RF lock and the 100 Hz subcode is there there but
the NIST timecode portion of the timecode is no
longer present.
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/goesnotice.htm
If you're getting a UTC time out of yours let me know
(and East or West?); mine went off the air on Jan 1
and they're still dead.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: kevin-usenet@horizon.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 21:53
Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for 468-DC GOES receiver info
I was just fiddling with a 468-DC GOES receiver that had been knocked
out of alignment by last summer's hurricanes. Thanks to TVB for
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/468-dc/theory.htm
which helped immensely (particularly the bit about TP2 and the unlock
LED).
I know GOES time is now in legacy mode with only +/-1 ms accuracy,
but I thought it would be fun to hook it up to an NTP server anyway.
I have satellite lock, time displayed, and 1 PPS and 1 kHz coming out the
back. However, I don't see anything on the IRIG output or the serial
port.
(And the EXT OSC input is a mystery.)
Looking at the NTP driver, I tried connecting at 9600 8N1 and sending
various letters, but no response. (The port probed as DTE, so I used
a crossover cable.)
Does anyone have any use or debugging information or manuals?
Thanks!
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Hi:
In still in the process of setting the C field on my FTS-4060 and have an interesting observation. After a cockpit error where I made a change in the wrong direction the time interval plot was going up steeply. In line with my latest theory of how to make the adjustment (which is to do a binary search rather than try and compute the required adjustment) I then set in a new value. I thought I saw a time constant of about 3 hours (i.e. it took about 3 hours to get to 63% of what I thought was the final value).
The next day (24 hours later) for about 8 hours the time interval was constant to within 10 nano seconds, phenomenally stable operation.
Now 3 days after that I can see that the time interval has a down slope. So the very stable operation 24 hours after the C field change was during the time when the frequency was changing and was at the level part of the curve.
This indicates that for a C field change on the FTS4060 you need to wait at least 2 or 3 days before making any measurements!
This also may explain why trying to compute the amount of a change does not seem to work. This would be the case if the effect of the prior change had not yet settled in.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Brooke, I've been seeing something similar myself. Last weekend I
posted a message with an attached plot vs GPS that showed similar
behaviour with a significant change in slope a couple of days after
changing the C field. And, I lost the green "continuous operation"
light at the time of the change (I was running with the long 60 second
time constant, which will knock out of lock very easily).
A new plot (check
http://www.febo.com/time-freq/plots/hp5061a-n8ur_1.html) against the
quieter of my two Z3801As is showing better behaviour now that the last
C field adjustment is over a week ago, but even there it appears there's
an initial downward slope that levels out.
John
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi:
In still in the process of setting the C field on my FTS-4060 and have
an interesting observation. After a cockpit error where I made a change
in the wrong direction the time interval plot was going up steeply. In
line with my latest theory of how to make the adjustment (which is to do
a binary search rather than try and compute the required adjustment) I
then set in a new value. I thought I saw a time constant of about 3
hours (i.e. it took about 3 hours to get to 63% of what I thought was
the final value).
The next day (24 hours later) for about 8 hours the time interval was
constant to within 10 nano seconds, phenomenally stable operation.
Now 3 days after that I can see that the time interval has a down
slope. So the very stable operation 24 hours after the C field change
was during the time when the frequency was changing and was at the level
part of the curve.
This indicates that for a C field change on the FTS4060 you need to wait
at least 2 or 3 days before making any measurements!
This also may explain why trying to compute the amount of a change does
not seem to work. This would be the case if the effect of the prior
change had not yet settled in.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
Hi John:
The only reason I saw this was because the plot had a steep positive
slope, then 24 hours later appeared to be perfect, now a few days after
that obviously has a negative slope. My initial estimate of the time
constant, based on the perfect performance, of 1 tau = 3 hours, was way
off. The real tau is more like 1 day. So I'll wait another day before
making the next adjustment.
Do you have plots that cover longer time periods?
Have Fun,
Brooke
John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
Brooke, I've been seeing something similar myself. Last weekend I
posted a message with an attached plot vs GPS that showed similar
behaviour with a significant change in slope a couple of days after
changing the C field. And, I lost the green "continuous operation"
light at the time of the change (I was running with the long 60 second
time constant, which will knock out of lock very easily).
A new plot (check
http://www.febo.com/time-freq/plots/hp5061a-n8ur_1.html) against the
quieter of my two Z3801As is showing better behaviour now that the
last C field adjustment is over a week ago, but even there it appears
there's an initial downward slope that levels out.
John
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi:
In still in the process of setting the C field on my FTS-4060 and
have an interesting observation. After a cockpit error where I made
a change in the wrong direction the time interval plot was going up
steeply. In line with my latest theory of how to make the adjustment
(which is to do a binary search rather than try and compute the
required adjustment) I then set in a new value. I thought I saw a
time constant of about 3 hours (i.e. it took about 3 hours to get to
63% of what I thought was the final value). The next day (24 hours
later) for about 8 hours the time interval was constant to within 10
nano seconds, phenomenally stable operation.
Now 3 days after that I can see that the time interval has a down
slope. So the very stable operation 24 hours after the C field
change was during the time when the frequency was changing and was at
the level part of the curve.
This indicates that for a C field change on the FTS4060 you need to
wait at least 2 or 3 days before making any measurements! This also
may explain why trying to compute the amount of a change does not
seem to work. This would be the case if the effect of the prior
change had not yet settled in.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi John:
The only reason I saw this was because the plot had a steep positive
slope, then 24 hours later appeared to be perfect, now a few days after
that obviously has a negative slope. My initial estimate of the time
constant, based on the perfect performance, of 1 tau = 3 hours, was way
off. The real tau is more like 1 day. So I'll wait another day before
making the next adjustment.
Do you have plots that cover longer time periods?
I've done lots of short runs while tweaking this thing... I plan to let
the current run go until at least early next week, when I want to do
some equipment reconfiguration that will require shutting the counter
(but not the Cs) off.
I just acquired three HP 5334A counters (great TICs with 2ns resolution,
1U rack height, and no fan -- and in the $125 range on eBay) to use for
long-term monitoring. I plan to monitor the 5061A continuously vs. GPS,
and the 5065A Rb vs. the 5061A. That'll free the 5370B up from one-off
measurements where I can use the better resolution to get results more
quickly.
John
Hi:
The C field has been set at 570 since the night of 20 Feb. and I haven't seen any drift, but the average of 1,000 time interval measurements from the GPS 1 PPS to the 1 MHz output has quite a bit of wandering which I'm convinced is caused by something related to the GPS. One way to see that is to also look at the LORAN-C data which is on the bottom of the plot. The gap in the LORAN-C data was caused by the Middletown station shutting down while they switched over to the solid state power amplifier.
Another clue that it's GPS based is to notice that the time of day when the big changes occur are about the same. The major lines are each at midnight. Maybe it's related to which GPS satellites are being used?
I have the receiver set for the 4 highest and a 30 degree elevation mask, but maybe should increase the elevation mask even higher?
http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/pdf/sn1227_CF570.pdf
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
In message 4223C82C.4030108@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes:
Another clue that it's GPS based is to notice that the time of day
when the big changes occur are about the same. The major lines are
each at midnight. Maybe it's related to which GPS satellites are
being used?
Have you tried setting a mask-angle in your GPS ?
Try 10 or 15 degree depending on how cluttered your horizon is.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Its possible, its multipath. Depending on your receiver, you can shut
off reception from individual GPS PRNs. Check to see which ones are in
use at the time, and then turn one off. 12 Hours later, turn it back on
and turn off another, etc.
Also, if you can turn off GPS PRNs, you can pick at time common with
NIST and use the GPS archive at
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/gpstrace.htm to compare
time (use view track to see one satellite by itself).
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 4223C82C.4030108@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes:
Another clue that it's GPS based is to notice that the time of day
when the big changes occur are about the same. The major lines are
each at midnight. Maybe it's related to which GPS satellites are
being used?
Have you tried setting a mask-angle in your GPS ?
Try 10 or 15 degree depending on how cluttered your horizon is.
Hi Poul:
Yes, at day 42 I set the elevation mask to 30 degrees. I have TAC32 and
it makes an elevation plot so 30 degrees is well above any of the
horizon objects. Today I'm thinking about setting it to 60 degrees
since only one satellite is needed for timing and this may get rid of
multipath.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 4223C82C.4030108@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes:
Another clue that it's GPS based is to notice that the time of day
when the big changes occur are about the same. The major lines are
each at midnight. Maybe it's related to which GPS satellites are
being used?
Have you tried setting a mask-angle in your GPS ?
Try 10 or 15 degree depending on how cluttered your horizon is.
Hi Brian:
I've been thinking about bringing my laptop to the FTS4060 and running
TAC32 and watching to see if there's a correlation between the time
interval changes and a change in which satellites are being tracked.
But even with the jumps if there is no drift then I know the C field is
properly set, it's just going to take longer. Also the LORAN-C is
looking better and better as a precision time transfer method. It's
been 5 days since Middletown came back on the air and the 2100T Timing
receiver was restarted and the offset is only 20 nano seconds.
20E-9/(5*86400) = 4.6E-14.
Have Fun,
Brooke
Brian Kirby wrote:
Its possible, its multipath. Depending on your receiver, you can shut
off reception from individual GPS PRNs. Check to see which ones are
in use at the time, and then turn one off. 12 Hours later, turn it
back on and turn off another, etc.
Also, if you can turn off GPS PRNs, you can pick at time common with
NIST and use the GPS archive at
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/gpstrace.htm to compare
time (use view track to see one satellite by itself).
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 4223C82C.4030108@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes:
Another clue that it's GPS based is to notice that the time of day
when the big changes occur are about the same. The major lines are
each at midnight. Maybe it's related to which GPS satellites are
being used?
Have you tried setting a mask-angle in your GPS ?
Try 10 or 15 degree depending on how cluttered your horizon is.
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Hi:
Since 20 March 2005 the C field has not been changed. Although there's been some glitches that caused offsets it sure looks to me like a parabolic curve. See:
http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/pdf/sn1227_CF568.pdf
Is this indicative of a frequency drift?
Scratching head,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Hi again:
I've stitched the plot and fitted a parabolic curve. The equation is:
Y = -1.1367X^2 + 213.66X -927.7 where Y is in ns and X is in days, so
converting the two first constants by dividing by 86400 gives:
drift = -1.31E-14 per day
offset = 2.47E-12
What I was checking was to see if this is a cesium or crystal
oscillator, and I think it's way too good to be a crystal.
Still scratching,
Brooke
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi:
Since 20 March 2005 the C field has not been changed. Although
there's been some glitches that caused offsets it sure looks to me
like a parabolic curve. See:
http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/pdf/sn1227_CF568.pdf
Is this indicative of a frequency drift?
Scratching head,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
Hi:
I've been reading up on real world Cesium standards and they do drift.
For example see the first paragraph on page 4 of:
Introduction to time and frequency metrology by Judah Levine
REVIEW OF SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS VOLUME 70, NUMBER 6 JUNE 1999
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/1288.pdf
Cesium is just like a crystal oscillator in that it has an offset and a
drift. The above article says:
"A good commercial cesium frequency standard, for example, might
exhibit fractional frequency fluctuations of 2E-14 for averaging
times of about one day. The frequency of the same device might
differ from the SI definition by 1E-13 or more (sometimes much
more), and this frequency offset may change slowly with time as the
device ages. (This frequency offset is what remains after
corrections for the perturbations mentioned above have been applied.
If no corrections are applied, the fractional frequency offset is
usually dominated by Zeeman effects, which can be as large as 1E-10.)"
The FTS4060 time interval is following the following equation (it takes
about a month to get this equation):
y = -1.2594x2 + 236.37x - 10318
where Y is in ns and X is the Day Of the Year. The first term is the
fractional frequency stability, i.e. drift rate and is
1.14E-14 per day which is pretty good. The HP-Agilent 5071A is
specified at <1E-14 per day.
Note that the fractional frequency stability of a good lab grade crystal
standard is about 1E-10 per day, so Cesium is 10,000 times better, but
still has drift.
This explains a lot about why setting the C field near 1E-14 is
difficult, the frequency is changing all the time.
Now Having Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
The FTS4060 time interval is following the following equation (it takes
about a month to get this equation):
y = -1.2594x2 + 236.37x - 10318
where Y is in ns and X is the Day Of the Year. The first term is the
fractional frequency stability, i.e. drift rate and is
1.14E-14 per day which is pretty good.
Do be careful here. Excel will blindly report
equations with 5 significant digits no matter
what the data looks like.
Here's something to try: break up your data
into three 10-day segments and see how well
the x2 term of the equations agree.
Or convert phase to frequency and then plot
30 days of frequency. If you have real drift it
should be clear from this plot.
DougH, JohnA, and I have Stable32 which makes
this a snap if you want to send any of us the raw
phase data.
The HP-Agilent 5071A is specified at <1E-14 per day.
Note that the fractional frequency stability of a good lab grade crystal
standard is about 1E-10 per day, so Cesium is 10,000 times better, but
still has drift.
All frequency standards have frequency instabilities.
Hydrogen masers, Quartz, and Rubidium have drift,
but Cesium standards are generally considered to
have zero drift. That's one reason UTC is based on
that technology.
And note that fractional frequency [in]stability is not
the same thing as frequency drift. I can go into this
in more detail if you wish.
This explains a lot about why setting the C field near 1E-14 is
difficult, the frequency is changing all the time.
If you make frequency plots in addition to phase plots
you will see dramatically why setting the C-field of
your 4060 to 1e-14 is hopeless. Frequency plots will
graphically show frequency instability (the width of
the line) and frequency drift (the slope of the line).
/tvb
Now Having Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
Hi Tom:
Think of it this way. Offset is a measure of how well someone has set
an oscillator. Stability is a measure of how well the oscillator
maintains it's frequency. Stability is the money spec. A lab grade
crystal oscillator may have a stability of parts in E-10 per day. That
means that if the offset is set to zero a day later the frequency may by
off by parts in E-10.
The world in not a perfect place and any Cesium oscillator also has
aging, it's not perfect, that's why there's a spec on the 5071A saying
less than 1E-14 per day. NIST has a fountain Cesium where they say less
than 1E-15 per day. That number is the stability NOT the offset. To
see the stability you need to accumulate enough data to see the
parabolic shape. It took me over a month after I got the wrinkles out
of my test system.
Can you hookup a Cesium source and make a time interval measurement for
a period of a month? Do you have software that will tell you the
stability (not offset) of the oscillator being tested?
Having Fun,
Brooke
Tom Van Baak wrote:
The FTS4060 time interval is following the following equation (it takes
about a month to get this equation):
y = -1.2594x2 + 236.37x - 10318
where Y is in ns and X is the Day Of the Year. The first term is the
fractional frequency stability, i.e. drift rate and is
1.14E-14 per day which is pretty good.
Do be careful here. Excel will blindly report
equations with 5 significant digits no matter
what the data looks like.
Here's something to try: break up your data
into three 10-day segments and see how well
the x2 term of the equations agree.
Or convert phase to frequency and then plot
30 days of frequency. If you have real drift it
should be clear from this plot.
DougH, JohnA, and I have Stable32 which makes
this a snap if you want to send any of us the raw
phase data.
The HP-Agilent 5071A is specified at <1E-14 per day.
Note that the fractional frequency stability of a good lab grade crystal
standard is about 1E-10 per day, so Cesium is 10,000 times better, but
still has drift.
All frequency standards have frequency instabilities.
Hydrogen masers, Quartz, and Rubidium have drift,
but Cesium standards are generally considered to
have zero drift. That's one reason UTC is based on
that technology.
And note that fractional frequency [in]stability is not
the same thing as frequency drift. I can go into this
in more detail if you wish.
This explains a lot about why setting the C field near 1E-14 is
difficult, the frequency is changing all the time.
If you make frequency plots in addition to phase plots
you will see dramatically why setting the C-field of
your 4060 to 1e-14 is hopeless. Frequency plots will
graphically show frequency instability (the width of
the line) and frequency drift (the slope of the line).
/tvb
Now Having Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
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At 08:32 PM 4/18/2005, Brooke Clarke wrote...
Can you hookup a Cesium source and make a time interval measurement for a period of a month?
Against what, and which one is drifting? If UTC is based on Cs, and Cs has intrinsic drift, then so does UTC, so who's measuring who?
Perhaps you need to measure against PSR 1937+21.
I wanted to follow up on this thread even though
Brooke and I have talked offline.
To the question -- could I measured a 5071A for a
month and what is its stability? -- attached are
200-day 5071A frequency plots; one is hourly
averages (2freq2.gif) and the other daily averages
(2freq4.gif). The plots are flat (no frequency drift).
Also attached (1sigma1.gif) is a stability plot going
out to tau 4 million seconds (45 days). You can see
these high-perf 5071A are in the 15's and still have
not quite hit their noise floor.
As for accurate definitions of stability, aging, and drift
have a look at pages like:
http://www.ieee-uffc.org/freqcontrol/vigaging91/introduc.htm
http://www.ieee-uffc.org/freqcontrol/quartz/vig/vigaging.htm
http://www.accubeat.com/glossary.asp
It is true that no frequency standard is perfect and all
have finite stability. Because of instability, frequency
will in fact wander around. But drift is something else;
it's the systematic (think gradual, continuous, unbounded
monotonic, sometimes linear) change in frequency over
time -- and this is typically not observed in a Cesium
standard.
/tvb
My understanding from talking to the experts is
that no aging, or environmental effects are observable
on the 5071A, and measurements have been made into
the 10^-15 range. Also, no systematic frequency offset
has been observed down to at least 1x10^-14. IE,
frequency offset between different 5071A's is randomly
distributed with a mean within 10-14 of laboratory
standards, such as Cs fountains. Knowing the way we
overdesigned the 5071A, I am not surprised that it
is this good.
Rick Karlquist
(member of 5071A design team)
Hi Rick:
I agree.
It's just that my FTS4060 IS drifting.
The Excel equation and fit for a month of data as of this morning are:
y = -1.2954x2 + 243.1x - 10631
R2 = 0.9607
Where y is in ns, x is the Day of Year and R2 is the quality of the fit
(very good).
The first derivative (after dividing by 86400) gives:
Offset = -3E-14 * X + 243
i.e. minus 3E-14 per day.
I'll keep watching and post from time to time, maybe this will stabilize???
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Richard (Rick) Karlquist (N6RK) wrote:
My understanding from talking to the experts is
that no aging, or environmental effects are observable
on the 5071A, and measurements have been made into
the 10^-15 range. Also, no systematic frequency offset
has been observed down to at least 1x10^-14. IE,
frequency offset between different 5071A's is randomly
distributed with a mean within 10-14 of laboratory
standards, such as Cs fountains. Knowing the way we
overdesigned the 5071A, I am not surprised that it
is this good.
Rick Karlquist
(member of 5071A design team)
time-nuts mailing list
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Correction:
The first derivative should be:
Offset = -3E-14 * X + 2.8E-12
so the offset for today 20 April (day # 110) is:
Offset = -3E-14* 110 + 2.8E-12 = -5E-13.
Brooke
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Rick:
I agree.
It's just that my FTS4060 IS drifting.
The Excel equation and fit for a month of data as of this morning are:
y = -1.2954x2 + 243.1x - 10631
R2 = 0.9607
Where y is in ns, x is the Day of Year and R2 is the quality of the
fit (very good).
The first derivative (after dividing by 86400) gives:
Offset = -3E-14 * X + 243
i.e. minus 3E-14 per day.
I'll keep watching and post from time to time, maybe this will
stabilize???
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
How about this:
Brooke is watching the last of his cesium evaporate.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:33 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement;
richard@karlquist.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
Hi Rick:
I agree.
It's just that my FTS4060 IS drifting.
The Excel equation and fit for a month of data as of this morning are:
y = -1.2954x2 + 243.1x - 10631
R2 = 0.9607
Where y is in ns, x is the Day of Year and R2 is the quality of the fit
(very good).
The first derivative (after dividing by 86400) gives:
Offset = -3E-14 * X + 243
i.e. minus 3E-14 per day.
I'll keep watching and post from time to time, maybe this will stabilize???
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Richard (Rick) Karlquist (N6RK) wrote:
My understanding from talking to the experts is
that no aging, or environmental effects are observable
on the 5071A, and measurements have been made into
the 10^-15 range. Also, no systematic frequency offset
has been observed down to at least 1x10^-14. IE,
frequency offset between different 5071A's is randomly
distributed with a mean within 10-14 of laboratory
standards, such as Cs fountains. Knowing the way we
overdesigned the 5071A, I am not surprised that it
is this good.
Rick Karlquist
(member of 5071A design team)
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Bill Hawkins wrote:
How about this:
Brooke is watching the last of his cesium evaporate.
Bill Hawkins
I don't think so, that appears as greater and greater phase noise.
I think Brooke is watching his control loop fail. Cs doesn't drift,
that is why it is a primary standard.
-Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:33 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement;
richard@karlquist.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
In message MGEKKFGEAIKJOOPJPGIKKEEAFEAA.richard@karlquist.com, "Richard (Ric
k) Karlquist (N6RK)" writes:
My understanding from talking to the experts is
that no aging, or environmental effects are observable
on the 5071A, and measurements have been made into
the 10^-15 range. Also, no systematic frequency offset
has been observed down to at least 1x10^-14. IE,
frequency offset between different 5071A's is randomly
distributed with a mean within 10-14 of laboratory
standards, such as Cs fountains. Knowing the way we
overdesigned the 5071A, I am not surprised that it
is this good.
I think the confusion here is that drift was measured and reported
on the HP5061. But that the drift did not originate in cesium bits
of it, but rather in the electronics and magnetic shielding if I
remember right.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Hi Bill:
I wish it was something that simple, but this is a brand new unit.
Have Fun,
Brooke
Bill Hawkins wrote:
How about this:
Brooke is watching the last of his cesium evaporate.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:33 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement;
richard@karlquist.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
Hi Rick:
I agree.
It's just that my FTS4060 IS drifting.
The Excel equation and fit for a month of data as of this morning are:
y = -1.2954x2 + 243.1x - 10631
R2 = 0.9607
Where y is in ns, x is the Day of Year and R2 is the quality of the fit
(very good).
The first derivative (after dividing by 86400) gives:
Offset = -3E-14 * X + 243
i.e. minus 3E-14 per day.
I'll keep watching and post from time to time, maybe this will stabilize???
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
Hi Chuck:
Is there something I can to do check for control loop failure?
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
Bill Hawkins wrote:
How about this:
Brooke is watching the last of his cesium evaporate.
Bill Hawkins
I don't think so, that appears as greater and greater phase noise.
I think Brooke is watching his control loop fail. Cs doesn't drift,
that is why it is a primary standard.
-Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:33 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement;
richard@karlquist.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
time-nuts mailing list
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Just another idea
Might be the Cs tube is just going to stabilize its magnetic field. Is there
any possibility to degauss the tube, like with the 5061 high performance
tube? This could be a very small drift/day.
Hubert
DB7ME
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Brooke Clarke
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2005 21:01
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
Hi Chuck:
Is there something I can to do check for control loop failure?
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
Bill Hawkins wrote:
How about this:
Brooke is watching the last of his cesium evaporate.
Bill Hawkins
I don't think so, that appears as greater and greater phase noise.
I think Brooke is watching his control loop fail. Cs doesn't drift,
that is why it is a primary standard.
-Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:33 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement;
richard@karlquist.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
time-nuts mailing list
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Hi Hubert:
I don't have a degaussing device. Are the plans to make one available?
Thanks for the idea,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Hubert v. Bonhorst wrote:
Just another idea
Might be the Cs tube is just going to stabilize its magnetic field. Is there
any possibility to degauss the tube, like with the 5061 high performance
tube? This could be a very small drift/day.
Hubert
DB7ME
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im
Auftrag von Brooke Clarke
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2005 21:01
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
Hi Chuck:
Is there something I can to do check for control loop failure?
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
Bill Hawkins wrote:
How about this:
Brooke is watching the last of his cesium evaporate.
Bill Hawkins
I don't think so, that appears as greater and greater phase noise.
I think Brooke is watching his control loop fail. Cs doesn't drift,
that is why it is a primary standard.
-Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:33 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement;
richard@karlquist.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
time-nuts mailing list
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Hi Brooke,
There should be some evidence that the center of the beam
current is slipping off of its peak value if it is a control
loop failure.
Perhaps you can open the loop, and use the control voltage pot
to peak the beam current and check the frequency at that point?
-Chuck
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Chuck:
Is there something I can to do check for control loop failure?
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
Bill Hawkins wrote:
How about this:
Brooke is watching the last of his cesium evaporate.
Bill Hawkins
I don't think so, that appears as greater and greater phase noise.
I think Brooke is watching his control loop fail. Cs doesn't drift,
that is why it is a primary standard.
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Hubert:
I don't have a degaussing device. Are the plans to make one available?
Thanks for the idea,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
The 4050 has the degaussing coil built in. I would think that the 4060
would too. All you have to do is connect a variac to the degaussing terminals,
and slowly ramp the voltage up to the specified value, and then slowly ramp
it back down to zero.
I think Hubert has the right idea. If your tube is magnetized, the magnetization
will slowly get smaller and smaller until it reaches some minimum value. While
it is doing this, you will see a drift that changes rate.
-Chuck
Hi Chuck:
I have one of the many FTS4060/S24 units being sold on
http://www.governmentliquidation.com. As far as I can tell these are
stripped of every possible thing that could reduce the price and so I'm
sure there's no built in degaussing capability.
But I'm willing to wait out the problem if that's what it is.
Thanks,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Chuck Harris wrote:
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Hubert:
I don't have a degaussing device. Are the plans to make one available?
Thanks for the idea,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
The 4050 has the degaussing coil built in. I would think that the 4060
would too. All you have to do is connect a variac to the degaussing
terminals,
and slowly ramp the voltage up to the specified value, and then slowly
ramp
it back down to zero.
I think Hubert has the right idea. If your tube is magnetized, the
magnetization
will slowly get smaller and smaller until it reaches some minimum
value. While
it is doing this, you will see a drift that changes rate.
-Chuck
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Hi Brooke,
Well, the degausing can even be done using the coil that is used to set
the offset. So, I wouldn't be so sure that you don't have a degaussing
coil built in.
-Chuck
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Chuck:
I have one of the many FTS4060/S24 units being sold on
http://www.governmentliquidation.com. As far as I can tell these are
stripped of every possible thing that could reduce the price and so I'm
sure there's no built in degaussing capability.
But I'm willing to wait out the problem if that's what it is.
Thanks,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
Hi Chuck:
OK. I can set the 3 thumb wheel switches to 999, wait some, then to 000
wait some, then to 900 , 100, etc. etc.
How many steps is reasonable and how long to wait?
Thanks for that idea.
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
Hi Brooke,
Well, the degausing can even be done using the coil that is used to set
the offset. So, I wouldn't be so sure that you don't have a degaussing
coil built in.
-Chuck
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Chuck:
I have one of the many FTS4060/S24 units being sold on
http://www.governmentliquidation.com. As far as I can tell these are
stripped of every possible thing that could reduce the price and so
I'm sure there's no built in degaussing capability.
But I'm willing to wait out the problem if that's what it is.
Thanks,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Chuck,
I have two 4060's, one like Brooke's and one regular production. Neither
have degaussing connections inside or out and none of my 4060 manuals
mention degaussing. My HP 5061's certainly have degaussing provisions.
Take care,
Had, K7MLR
At 06:11 PM 4/20/2005, you wrote:
Hi Brooke,
Well, the degausing can even be done using the coil that is used to set
the offset. So, I wouldn't be so sure that you don't have a degaussing
coil built in.
-Chuck
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Chuck:
I have one of the many FTS4060/S24 units being sold on
http://www.governmentliquidation.com. As far as I can tell these are
stripped of every possible thing that could reduce the price and so I'm
sure there's no built in degaussing capability.
But I'm willing to wait out the problem if that's what it is.
Thanks,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
No, that isn't quite it! You disconnect the offset magnetic
coil, and connect it to a variac with a series light bulb to limit
the current. I cannot tell you what size bulb to use, or how much voltage,
as I would have to make some educated guesses. Make the wrong guess,
and B/O is possible.
I read about the technique somewhere, I just don't recall where.
-Chuck
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Chuck:
OK. I can set the 3 thumb wheel switches to 999, wait some, then to 000
wait some, then to 900 , 100, etc. etc.
How many steps is reasonable and how long to wait?
Thanks for that idea.
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
Hi Chuck:
If I had a schematic I'd give it a go, but without it, I'm not
comfortable powering random wires.
So it's back to waiting.
Have Fun,
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
No, that isn't quite it! You disconnect the offset magnetic
coil, and connect it to a variac with a series light bulb to limit
the current. I cannot tell you what size bulb to use, or how much
voltage,
as I would have to make some educated guesses. Make the wrong guess,
and B/O is possible.
I read about the technique somewhere, I just don't recall where.
-Chuck
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Chuck:
OK. I can set the 3 thumb wheel switches to 999, wait some, then to
000 wait some, then to 900 , 100, etc. etc.
How many steps is reasonable and how long to wait?
Thanks for that idea.
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
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time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
At the risk of misleading Brooke down the wrong path....
For what it's worth, my copy of the HP-5060 manual talks about
using the LF coil to test for a possibly magnetized cesium tube.
The injected audio test signal is swept from 50Hz to 5kHz. Any
sharp peaking in beam current above 2500Hz indicates possible
magnetization.
I have no knowledge if the FTS tubes have an LF coil.
-Brian, WA1ZMS
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:32 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: AW: [time-nuts] Cesium DOES Drift, not
No, that isn't quite it! You disconnect the offset magnetic
coil, and connect it to a variac with a series light bulb to limit
the current. I cannot tell you what size bulb to use, or how much voltage,
as I would have to make some educated guesses. Make the wrong guess,
and B/O is possible.
I read about the technique somewhere, I just don't recall where.
-Chuck
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Chuck:
OK. I can set the 3 thumb wheel switches to 999, wait some, then to 000
wait some, then to 900 , 100, etc. etc.
How many steps is reasonable and how long to wait?
Thanks for that idea.
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all
HP info.
Thanks
Bill K7NOM
I imagine that that is because HP just went on the warpath, and declared
all copies of their manuals verboten. I just got several notices from
ebay telling me about how some HP manuals on CDs that I bought were infringements
on HP's intellectual property. This was old stuff too, from the early '70s
-Chuck
Bill Janssen wrote:
I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all
HP info.
Thanks
Bill K7NOM
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Bill,
I'm not sure where the diagram went on my
site so use the one halfway down this page:
http://home.teleport.com/~oldaker/10mhz_construction.htm
/tvb
http://www.LeapSecond.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Janssen" billj@ieee.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 19:02
Subject: [time-nuts] connections for HP 10811A ?
I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all
HP info.
Thanks
Bill K7NOM
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Hi Chuck:
A true story:
As part of my job at HP/Agilent I was on the road quite a bit living in
hotels. My laptop was able to connect into their network most of the
time in a secure manner. But every now and then it refused to connect.
So there was an 800 support number to call and those folks would get me
connected. One day the message that you get to hear while on hold said
something like "this 800 support phone number will be replaced by the
following web URL on the 17 of June". Needless to say I made quite a
stink about this and probably so did anyone who traveled. And it came
to pass that the 800 stayed operational.
My guess is that some kid in the legal department is trying to get
noticed for doing something without asking for permission hoping he
won't have to ask for forgiveness. It would be good if we found out who
to send email to and start a campaign. I think that if anyone who can
think heard about this they would put an end to it.
Is there someone inside Agilent who can give us a good email to use?
Have Fun,
Brooke
Chuck Harris wrote:
I imagine that that is because HP just went on the warpath, and declared
all copies of their manuals verboten. I just got several notices from
ebay telling me about how some HP manuals on CDs that I bought were
infringements
on HP's intellectual property. This was old stuff too, from the early
'70s
-Chuck
Bill Janssen wrote:
I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed
all HP info.
Thanks
Bill K7NOM
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
time-nuts mailing list
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https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, Bill Janssen wrote:
I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all
HP info.
Thanks
Bill K7NOM
I don't have time now, but are 99.9% sure I downloaded a manual (I'm not
sure what corrections there are) recently. I'll dig it out later, but its
on another computer and I need to leave to get a train in 30 mins or so.
Bill,
From my original Shera System.....
Pin 1 - 10 MHz out
Pin 2 - Ground
Pin 3 - Osc/amp 10.6 to 11.7 volts 15 ma
Pin 4 - 10 MHz out ground
Pin 5 - EFC ground
Pin 6 - EFC (control -5 to +5)
Pin 7 - ----
Pin 8 - Oven controller 10.6 to 11.7 volts 5 ma
Pin 9 - Oven controller return
Pin 10 - ---
Pin 11- Oven monitor
Pin 12 - ---
Pin 13 - ---
Pin 14 - Oven 15 to 30 volts
Pin 15 - Oven Return
Hope this helps.
73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Janssen" billj@ieee.org
Subject: [time-nuts] connections for HP 10811A ?
I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all
HP info.
Thanks
Bill K7NOM
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:14 PM
To: billj@ieee.org; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] connections for HP 10811A ?
I imagine that that is because HP just went on the warpath, and declared
all copies of their manuals verboten. I just got several notices from
ebay telling me about how some HP manuals on CDs that I bought
were infringements
on HP's intellectual property. This was old stuff too, from the
early '70s
-Chuck
The Agilent Library in Palo Alto is working on a project to make HP/Agilent
manuals available in .pdf form. I donated 100's of my manuals to
their collection. They are scanning them in. I don't know
the exact method by which an outside person accesses this
collection, but I was told it was in response to many customer
phone calls about manuals.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
(employed by Agilent Technologies)
Well, that's certainly interesting. Maybe the Agilent counsel should
include this tidbit in their threatening letters, to avoid the loss of
goodwill that's happening as a result of the BAMA takedown notice.
If they are trying to ensure that all of the manuals out there are
standardized and officially sanctioned copies, available to anyone on a
reasonable basis, then I'm all for that.
I just wrote to Manuals Plus to see if they've heard anything from Agilent.
They have some substantial business interests at stake, more so than the
usual eBay CD hawkers. If you order a set of HP 8566B manuals from them,
which come in four three-ring binders full of foldout sheets that amount to
the size of metro-area telephone books, they will actually print them on
demand at near-OEM quality. I can't imagine what it must cost to buy and
operate the scanning/printing equipment needed to do that.
I don't have a large library here, but I do have a few dozen HP manuals that
the Agilent folks are welcome to if they'll make them available for free or
at nominal cost to hobbyists. Is there a list anywhere of manuals that they
are looking for?
-- john KE5FX
The Agilent Library in Palo Alto is working on a project to make
HP/Agilent
manuals available in .pdf form. I donated 100's of my manuals to
their collection. They are scanning them in. I don't know
the exact method by which an outside person accesses this
collection, but I was told it was in response to many customer
phone calls about manuals.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
(employed by Agilent Technologies)
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Thanks to everyone that responded I now have more than enough to
check this oscillator to see if it is OK for my use.
Bill K7NOM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Janssen" billj@ieee.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 19:02
Subject: [time-nuts] connections for HP 10811A ?
I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all
HP info.
Thanks
Bill K7NOM
Bill Janssen wrote:
Thanks to everyone that responded I now have more than enough to
check this oscillator to see if it is OK for my use.
In case you, or anybody else, need the complete Operating and Service
Manual of the 10811A/B, I have uploaded it to one of my Web sites. It is
rather large, 75+ MB, for a total of 65 pages. I tried to ZIP it. but
the reduction in size is minimal. The URL is
http://www.epistemic.info/bin/10811ab.pdf
73 Alberto I2PHD
Richard (Rick) Karlquist (N6RK) wrote:
I imagine that that is because HP just went on the warpath, and declared
all copies of their manuals verboten. I just got several notices from
ebay telling me about how some HP manuals on CDs that I bought
were infringements
on HP's intellectual property. This was old stuff too, from the
early '70s
-Chuck
The Agilent Library in Palo Alto is working on a project to make HP/Agilent
manuals available in .pdf form. I donated 100's of my manuals to
their collection. They are scanning them in. I don't know
the exact method by which an outside person accesses this
collection, but I was told it was in response to many customer
phone calls about manuals.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
(employed by Agilent Technologies)
Well hopefully the takedown notices that HP has been spreading around are
because they want the unofficial copies gone to make way for the new official
free pdf's.
What are the odds of that?
-Chuck
Alberto,
When I click on the link I go right into Acrobat 5, but the
Acrobat screen does not finish building. When the download
is displayed, there is no Acrobat screen and no way to save
the file.
Anyone else have better luck?
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Alberto di Bene
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:23 PM
To: billj@ieee.org; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?
Bill Janssen wrote:
Thanks to everyone that responded I now have more than enough to
check this oscillator to see if it is OK for my use.
In case you, or anybody else, need the complete Operating and Service
Manual of the 10811A/B, I have uploaded it to one of my Web sites. It is
rather large, 75+ MB, for a total of 65 pages. I tried to ZIP it. but
the reduction in size is minimal. The URL is
http://www.epistemic.info/bin/10811ab.pdf
73 Alberto I2PHD
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Hi Bill:
I right clicked and selected save target as and had no problem.
But it is a large file, so takes some download time.
It's a quality copy job, the photos look great.
I just finished adding Adobe bookmarks to my copy.
73,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Bill Hawkins wrote:
Alberto,
When I click on the link I go right into Acrobat 5, but the
Acrobat screen does not finish building. When the download
is displayed, there is no Acrobat screen and no way to save
the file.
Anyone else have better luck?
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Alberto di Bene
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:23 PM
To: billj@ieee.org; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?
Bill Janssen wrote:
Thanks to everyone that responded I now have more than enough to
check this oscillator to see if it is OK for my use.
In case you, or anybody else, need the complete Operating and Service
Manual of the 10811A/B, I have uploaded it to one of my Web sites. It is
rather large, 75+ MB, for a total of 65 pages. I tried to ZIP it. but
the reduction in size is minimal. The URL is
http://www.epistemic.info/bin/10811ab.pdf
73 Alberto I2PHD
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:15:39 -0500, "Bill Hawkins" bill@iaxs.net
wrote:
Alberto,
When I click on the link I go right into Acrobat 5, but the
Acrobat screen does not finish building. When the download
is displayed, there is no Acrobat screen and no way to save
the file.
Anyone else have better luck?
Bill Hawkins
I got it, and thanks to Alberto.
Yes, had similar problems. Direct click in Firefox started to open it as
an Adobe document. I have had problems before with large docs opened in
Firefox via Adobe (it can't all be perfect yet) so I killed it.
I then tried to go up one level so that I could point to the link and
say "save link as". Unfortunately this site wouldn't allow access to the
parent level. If possible, future posters could help the situation if
acess was allowed to both the file and its home directory.
So I took the link of the pdf file and plugged it into a download
program that I snagged years back. It downloaded fine. It has also saved
me before when several attempts to download a big file by web page
methods failed. It downloaded fine but also would have had the option to
restart if things had gone bad somewhere in the middle of the download.
It's called MetaProducts Download Express...
http://www.metaproducts.com/mp/mpProducts_Detail.asp?id=18
"free for non-commercial use"
Just offering this tip on what worked for me this time. Hope it helps.
-Rex
I had the same problem.
Daun
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Bill Hawkins
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:16 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?
Alberto,
When I click on the link I go right into Acrobat 5, but the
Acrobat screen does not finish building. When the download
is displayed, there is no Acrobat screen and no way to save
the file.
Anyone else have better luck?
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Alberto di Bene
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:23 PM
To: billj@ieee.org; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?
Bill Janssen wrote:
Thanks to everyone that responded I now have more than enough to
check this oscillator to see if it is OK for my use.
In case you, or anybody else, need the complete Operating and Service
Manual of the 10811A/B, I have uploaded it to one of my Web sites. It is
rather large, 75+ MB, for a total of 65 pages. I tried to ZIP it. but
the reduction in size is minimal. The URL is
http://www.epistemic.info/bin/10811ab.pdf
73 Alberto I2PHD
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
I have FireFox as well, so I tried Rex's suggestion and it worked fine. I might
comment that it apparently now integrates directly into FireFox as a plugin and
once installed required no further action other than just entering the link.
Thanks Rex!
Daun
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Rex
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 3:14 AM
To: bill@iaxs.net
Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?
On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:15:39 -0500, "Bill Hawkins" bill@iaxs.net
wrote:
Alberto,
When I click on the link I go right into Acrobat 5, but the
Acrobat screen does not finish building. When the download
is displayed, there is no Acrobat screen and no way to save
the file.
Anyone else have better luck?
Bill Hawkins
I got it, and thanks to Alberto.
Yes, had similar problems. Direct click in Firefox started to open it as
an Adobe document. I have had problems before with large docs opened in
Firefox via Adobe (it can't all be perfect yet) so I killed it.
I then tried to go up one level so that I could point to the link and
say "save link as". Unfortunately this site wouldn't allow access to the
parent level. If possible, future posters could help the situation if
acess was allowed to both the file and its home directory.
So I took the link of the pdf file and plugged it into a download
program that I snagged years back. It downloaded fine. It has also saved
me before when several attempts to download a big file by web page
methods failed. It downloaded fine but also would have had the option to
restart if things had gone bad somewhere in the middle of the download.
It's called MetaProducts Download Express...
http://www.metaproducts.com/mp/mpProducts_Detail.asp?id=18
"free for non-commercial use"
Just offering this tip on what worked for me this time. Hope it helps.
-Rex
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Rex wrote:
I then tried to go up one level so that I could point to the link and
say "save link as". Unfortunately this site wouldn't allow access to the
parent level. If possible, future posters could help the situation if
acess was allowed to both the file and its home directory.
Rex,
you don't need to have access to the upper level. Just right-click on
the URL in my message and you will then have the choice of saving the
file as....
That site hosts a commercial application (not mine, but which I
supervise technically), so I limited somewhat the possibility of
navigation there.
I use Fiirefox as well, and had no problems when I tried to redownload
it as a check.
73 Alberto I2PHD
Hi Alberto
The right-click method works if you are reading in a browser (I just tried it
using SquirrelMail). However, I couldn't do that using LookOut (OutLook).
Fortunately, Rex's method also works, so there are at least two ways to
circumvent the problem.
Daun
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On
Behalf Of Alberto di Bene
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 9:25 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re: Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?
Rex wrote:
I then tried to go up one level so that I could point to the link and
say "save link as". Unfortunately this site wouldn't allow access to the
parent level. If possible, future posters could help the situation if
acess was allowed to both the file and its home directory.
Rex,
you don't need to have access to the upper level. Just right-click on
the URL in my message and you will then have the choice of saving the
file as....
That site hosts a commercial application (not mine, but which I
supervise technically), so I limited somewhat the possibility of
navigation there.
I use Fiirefox as well, and had no problems when I tried to redownload
it as a check.
73 Alberto I2PHD
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Daun Yeagley wrote:
Hi Alberto
The right-click method works if you are reading in a browser (I just tried it
using SquirrelMail). However, I couldn't do that using LookOut (OutLook).
Fortunately, Rex's method also works, so there are at least two ways to
circumvent the problem.
Hmmmm, then it depends on the mail client you use.... I switched away
from OutLook many years ago, and presently I use Thunderbird (the
companion of Firefox), which offers that choice on the right-click. I
have never regretted to have completely erased both IE and OutLook from
my PC.... never seen a virus since then.
73 Alberto I2PHD
I think that the version of the 10811 manual is the one I scanned - at
least, the file size is the same. You can also download it from:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dga/time/
(it's linked, so you can right click). The foldouts are also there, if
you're interested in the schematics. I also have a mirror of the
manual that Hubert Bonhorst scanned.
MD5 of my version is ba2b2c04bfe97514da95153ab75f1085 if you want to
avoid d/l'ing the same thing twice.
-Dave
On Apr 22, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Alberto di Bene wrote:
Daun Yeagley wrote:
Hi Alberto
The right-click method works if you are reading in a browser (I just
tried it
using SquirrelMail). However, I couldn't do that using LookOut
(OutLook).
Fortunately, Rex's method also works, so there are at least two ways
to
circumvent the problem.
Hmmmm, then it depends on the mail client you use.... I switched away
from OutLook many years ago, and presently I use Thunderbird (the
companion of Firefox), which offers that choice on the right-click. I
have never regretted to have completely erased both IE and OutLook
from my PC.... never seen a virus since then.
73 Alberto I2PHD
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Alberto di Bene wrote:
Rex wrote:
I then tried to go up one level so that I could point to the link and
say "save link as". Unfortunately this site wouldn't allow access to the
parent level. If possible, future posters could help the situation if
acess was allowed to both the file and its home directory.
Rex,
you don't need to have access to the upper level. Just right-click on
the URL in my message and you will then have the choice of saving the
file as....
That site hosts a commercial application (not mine, but which I
supervise technically), so I limited somewhat the possibility of
navigation there.
I use Fiirefox as well, and had no problems when I tried to redownload
it as a check.
73 Alberto I2PHD
Alberto,
Thank you for placing this document on your website!
I'm on cable and the download went fine--bit slower than normal, but no
problems at all using Firefox with Acrobat 6. The slowness of download
was undoubtedly due just to bandwidth limitations some where along the path.
Bruce -- WB9ANQ
--
Bruce Rahn
Wisdom has two parts:
- having a lot to say; and
- not saying it!