High accuracy temp controller ckt
Yo Bubba Dudes!,
This may not be too germain to the present discussion of temperature controllers but if anyone is interested I have a PDF copy of:
A versatile thermoelectric temperature controller with10 mK reproducibility
and 100 mK absolute accuracy
by K. G. Libbrechta and A. W. LibbrechtDepartment of Physics, California Institute ofTechnology, Pasadena, California 91125, USA
Received 4 September 2009; accepted 23 November 2009; published online28 December 2009
If interested send me an email and I'll attach a copy
Regards,
Perrier
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 06:03, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Yo Bubba Dudes!,
This may not be too germain to the present discussion of temperature
controllers but if anyone is interested I have a PDF copy of:
A versatile thermoelectric temperature controller with10 mK reproducibility
and 100 mK absolute accuracy
by K. G. Libbrechta and A. W. LibbrechtDepartment of Physics, California
Institute ofTechnology, Pasadena, California 91125, USA
Received 4 September 2009; accepted 23 November 2009; published online28
December 2009
If interested send me an email and I'll attach a copy
Regards,
Perrier
I would appreciate a copy.
I have recently assembled some reasonably low temperature coefficient (5
ppm/deg C) resistors in a reasonably well insulated box to try to make a
resistor that should be stable over short time periods to allow it to be
used as a transfer standard. But I am seriously considering having another
attempt at this, but putting the resistor in an oven.
Dave.
Dr. David Kirkby,
Thanks Perry for that offer. I think the PDF is available several places
on the web, including the author's own website:
https://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/publist/tempcontroller.pdf
In addition there's a "comment on" the paper here:
https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.3534845?class=pdf
Followed by a "Response to a comment on" paper here:
https://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/publist/response.pdf
I would suggest reading all three papers together.
The author has a lot of interesting (but non time-nut) papers:
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/publist/kglpub.htm
https://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/
/tvb
On 7/11/2019 8:59 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote:
Yo Bubba Dudes!,
This may not be too germain to the present discussion of temperature controllers but if anyone is interested I have a PDF copy of:
A versatile thermoelectric temperature controller with10 mK reproducibility
and 100 mK absolute accuracy
by K. G. Libbrechta and A. W. LibbrechtDepartment of Physics, California Institute ofTechnology, Pasadena, California 91125, USA
Received 4 September 2009; accepted 23 November 2009; published online28 December 2009
If interested send me an email and I'll attach a copy
Regards,
Perrier
time-nuts mailing list --time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go tohttp://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
Dave wrote:
I have recently assembled some reasonably low temperature coefficient (5
ppm/deg C) resistors in a reasonably well insulated box to try to make a
resistor that should be stable over short time periods to allow it to be
used as a transfer standard. But I am seriously >considering having another
attempt at this, but putting the resistor in an oven.
AXTAL has a miniature oven for heating precision resistors or other
components to a constant temperature. It is housed in a small DIP8 package.
See attached AXR135 data sheet.
Optionally this device can be offered unsealed, ready for inserting the
component by yourself
Regards
Bernd
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 08:07, Bernd Neubig BNeubig@t-online.de wrote:
AXTAL has a miniature oven for heating precision resistors or other
components to a constant temperature. It is housed in a small DIP8 package.
See attached AXR135 data sheet.
Optionally this device can be offered unsealed, ready for inserting the
component by yourself
Regards
Bernd
The resistors I am using are made by Caddock, are 1 M ohm & 10 M ohm, 0.01%
tolerance and 5 ppm / deg C. They are much too large to fit in a DIP8
package. A quick check with a ruler indicates that the 10 M ohm is 38 x 12
mm and the 1 M ohm is 19 x 10 mm.
A quick photograph shows this half finished project. Unfortunately, even
before I have finished it, I am wishing I had done a better job. However,
my original reason for doing this was to check the stability of a data
acquisition unit before sending it to Keysight. I think this will be good
enough for that, but I could certainly have done a job with some thought.
The thermocouple is just meant to be a temperature sensor that dissipates
no power. A thermistor or RTD buried in the polystyrene would have just got
hot. The resistors should not get hot, as the power dissipated will be
under 1 uW.
I also intend putting in a 100 M ohm resistor, but the specification of
that is much poorer (5%, 100 ppm/ deg C. )
I partially read the paper mentioned. I note that the authors used a thermo
electric cooler (TEC) as they wanted get low temperatures. I assume that
for crystals or resistors dissipating little heat, a TEC would be
unnecessary, and just a resistor acting as a heater would be fine. But will
read some of the references. Obviously for controlling a crystal
oscillator, or my resistor, stability is most important, whereas for the
authors of the paper, stability was not their major concern.
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
In message CANX10hBua_yuFWrWTeDyhDLp_TNxoCvZvomjaynCEbk1W_=ahA@mail.gmail.com
, "Dr. David Kirkby" writes:
I partially read the paper mentioned. I note that the authors used a thermo
electric cooler (TEC) as they wanted get low temperatures.
Cooling GigaOhm resistors makes sense, Johnson/Nyquist noise is
proportional to the product of absolute temperature and resistance.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Hello,
A TEC is good if you want to maintain the resistors at 25ºC, that seems
the zero TC point for some precision low TCR resistors (for example, the
Vishay VFCP or VSMP series)
Regards,
Javier
On 12/7/19 10:06, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 08:07, Bernd Neubig BNeubig@t-online.de wrote:
AXTAL has a miniature oven for heating precision resistors or other
components to a constant temperature. It is housed in a small DIP8 package.
See attached AXR135 data sheet.
Optionally this device can be offered unsealed, ready for inserting the
component by yourself
Regards
Bernd
The resistors I am using are made by Caddock, are 1 M ohm & 10 M ohm, 0.01%
tolerance and 5 ppm / deg C. They are much too large to fit in a DIP8
package. A quick check with a ruler indicates that the 10 M ohm is 38 x 12
mm and the 1 M ohm is 19 x 10 mm.
A quick photograph shows this half finished project. Unfortunately, even
before I have finished it, I am wishing I had done a better job. However,
my original reason for doing this was to check the stability of a data
acquisition unit before sending it to Keysight. I think this will be good
enough for that, but I could certainly have done a job with some thought.
The thermocouple is just meant to be a temperature sensor that dissipates
no power. A thermistor or RTD buried in the polystyrene would have just got
hot. The resistors should not get hot, as the power dissipated will be
under 1 uW.
I also intend putting in a 100 M ohm resistor, but the specification of
that is much poorer (5%, 100 ppm/ deg C. )
I partially read the paper mentioned. I note that the authors used a thermo
electric cooler (TEC) as they wanted get low temperatures. I assume that
for crystals or resistors dissipating little heat, a TEC would be
unnecessary, and just a resistor acting as a heater would be fine. But will
read some of the references. Obviously for controlling a crystal
oscillator, or my resistor, stability is most important, whereas for the
authors of the paper, stability was not their major concern.
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
--
Javier Herrero
Chief Technology Officer EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com
HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806
Teide 4, Núcleo 1 Of. 0.1 FAX: +34 949 336 792
28703 San Sebastián de los Reyes - Madrid - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com
Hi
If you do go the TEC route, plan on a fairly big power source :). There is a
Wenzel doc on doing a TEC based enclosure using a couple of die cast
boxes. The pictures don’t show what they used to drive the beast so part of
it would still be up to you. My search skills and their web site are not quite
compatible so no link …. sorry !!!
Bob
On Jul 12, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Javier Herrero jherrero@hvsistemas.es wrote:
Hello,
A TEC is good if you want to maintain the resistors at 25ºC, that seems the zero TC point for some precision low TCR resistors (for example, the Vishay VFCP or VSMP series)
Regards,
Javier
On 12/7/19 10:06, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 08:07, Bernd Neubig BNeubig@t-online.de wrote:
AXTAL has a miniature oven for heating precision resistors or other
components to a constant temperature. It is housed in a small DIP8 package.
See attached AXR135 data sheet.
Optionally this device can be offered unsealed, ready for inserting the
component by yourself
Regards
Bernd
The resistors I am using are made by Caddock, are 1 M ohm & 10 M ohm, 0.01%
tolerance and 5 ppm / deg C. They are much too large to fit in a DIP8
package. A quick check with a ruler indicates that the 10 M ohm is 38 x 12
mm and the 1 M ohm is 19 x 10 mm.
A quick photograph shows this half finished project. Unfortunately, even
before I have finished it, I am wishing I had done a better job. However,
my original reason for doing this was to check the stability of a data
acquisition unit before sending it to Keysight. I think this will be good
enough for that, but I could certainly have done a job with some thought.
The thermocouple is just meant to be a temperature sensor that dissipates
no power. A thermistor or RTD buried in the polystyrene would have just got
hot. The resistors should not get hot, as the power dissipated will be
under 1 uW.
I also intend putting in a 100 M ohm resistor, but the specification of
that is much poorer (5%, 100 ppm/ deg C. )
I partially read the paper mentioned. I note that the authors used a thermo
electric cooler (TEC) as they wanted get low temperatures. I assume that
for crystals or resistors dissipating little heat, a TEC would be
unnecessary, and just a resistor acting as a heater would be fine. But will
read some of the references. Obviously for controlling a crystal
oscillator, or my resistor, stability is most important, whereas for the
authors of the paper, stability was not their major concern.
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
--
Javier Herrero
Chief Technology Officer EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com
HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806
Teide 4, Núcleo 1 Of. 0.1 FAX: +34 949 336 792
28703 San Sebastián de los Reyes - Madrid - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
I've built a small temperature oven to test the TCXOs I produce. It
contains both power resistors for heat and a TEC for cooling and extra
heat. It is controlled by an Arduino and takes commands to change the
setpoint from the USB / Serial port. It is a PID controller with some
dither also, with modifyable parameters and some nonlinear control. I did
not implement automatic tuning. It's a little rough and largely
undocumented, but functional. I used a motor bridge to control the TEC. A
relay board failed quickly. The TEC requires fans on both sides to work
acceptably.
Pictures attached hopefully. I could try to provide more info if needed.
Mark
W7MLG
And if you are not in a well air conditioned room....
Gilles.
Envoyé de mon iPad
Le 12 juil. 2019 à 18:12, Javier Herrero jherrero@hvsistemas.es a écrit :
Hello,
A TEC is good if you want to maintain the resistors at 25ºC, that seems the zero TC point for some precision low TCR resistors (for example, the Vishay VFCP or VSMP series)
Regards,
Javier
On 12/7/19 10:06, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 08:07, Bernd Neubig BNeubig@t-online.de wrote:
AXTAL has a miniature oven for heating precision resistors or other
components to a constant temperature. It is housed in a small DIP8 package.
See attached AXR135 data sheet.
Optionally this device can be offered unsealed, ready for inserting the
component by yourself
Regards
Bernd
The resistors I am using are made by Caddock, are 1 M ohm & 10 M ohm, 0.01%
tolerance and 5 ppm / deg C. They are much too large to fit in a DIP8
package. A quick check with a ruler indicates that the 10 M ohm is 38 x 12
mm and the 1 M ohm is 19 x 10 mm.
A quick photograph shows this half finished project. Unfortunately, even
before I have finished it, I am wishing I had done a better job. However,
my original reason for doing this was to check the stability of a data
acquisition unit before sending it to Keysight. I think this will be good
enough for that, but I could certainly have done a job with some thought.
The thermocouple is just meant to be a temperature sensor that dissipates
no power. A thermistor or RTD buried in the polystyrene would have just got
hot. The resistors should not get hot, as the power dissipated will be
under 1 uW.
I also intend putting in a 100 M ohm resistor, but the specification of
that is much poorer (5%, 100 ppm/ deg C. )
I partially read the paper mentioned. I note that the authors used a thermo
electric cooler (TEC) as they wanted get low temperatures. I assume that
for crystals or resistors dissipating little heat, a TEC would be
unnecessary, and just a resistor acting as a heater would be fine. But will
read some of the references. Obviously for controlling a crystal
oscillator, or my resistor, stability is most important, whereas for the
authors of the paper, stability was not their major concern.
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
--
Javier Herrero
Chief Technology Officer EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com
HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806
Teide 4, Núcleo 1 Of. 0.1 FAX: +34 949 336 792
28703 San Sebastián de los Reyes - Madrid - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 20:02, Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
If you do go the TEC route, plan on a fairly big power source :). There is
a
Wenzel doc on doing a TEC based enclosure using a couple of die cast
boxes. The pictures don’t show what they used to drive the beast so part
of
it would still be up to you. My search skills and their web site are not
quite
compatible so no link …. sorry !!!
I'm particularly keen to avoid the requirement for high power, as I was
thinking to make this in such a way it can be shipped and powered up all
the time. If it could run from a few NiMH cells for 48 hours, that would
give the option of shipping it. I don't know if that's going over the top,
but it would be an interesting exercise.
--
Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD,
Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom.
Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100
Figure 5 in http://www.wenzel.com/wp-content/uploads/Sub-pico-Multiplier.pdf
??
Bruce
On 13 July 2019 at 05:23 Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
If you do go the TEC route, plan on a fairly big power source :). There is a
Wenzel doc on doing a TEC based enclosure using a couple of die cast
boxes. The pictures don’t show what they used to drive the beast so part of
it would still be up to you. My search skills and their web site are not quite
compatible so no link …. sorry !!!
Bob
On Jul 12, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Javier Herrero jherrero@hvsistemas.es wrote:
Hello,
A TEC is good if you want to maintain the resistors at 25ºC, that seems the zero TC point for some precision low TCR resistors (for example, the Vishay VFCP or VSMP series)
Regards,
Javier
On 12/7/19 10:06, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 08:07, Bernd Neubig BNeubig@t-online.de wrote:
AXTAL has a miniature oven for heating precision resistors or other
components to a constant temperature. It is housed in a small DIP8 package.
See attached AXR135 data sheet.
Optionally this device can be offered unsealed, ready for inserting the
component by yourself
Regards
Bernd
The resistors I am using are made by Caddock, are 1 M ohm & 10 M ohm, 0.01%
tolerance and 5 ppm / deg C. They are much too large to fit in a DIP8
package. A quick check with a ruler indicates that the 10 M ohm is 38 x 12
mm and the 1 M ohm is 19 x 10 mm.
A quick photograph shows this half finished project. Unfortunately, even
before I have finished it, I am wishing I had done a better job. However,
my original reason for doing this was to check the stability of a data
acquisition unit before sending it to Keysight. I think this will be good
enough for that, but I could certainly have done a job with some thought.
The thermocouple is just meant to be a temperature sensor that dissipates
no power. A thermistor or RTD buried in the polystyrene would have just got
hot. The resistors should not get hot, as the power dissipated will be
under 1 uW.
I also intend putting in a 100 M ohm resistor, but the specification of
that is much poorer (5%, 100 ppm/ deg C. )
I partially read the paper mentioned. I note that the authors used a thermo
electric cooler (TEC) as they wanted get low temperatures. I assume that
for crystals or resistors dissipating little heat, a TEC would be
unnecessary, and just a resistor acting as a heater would be fine. But will
read some of the references. Obviously for controlling a crystal
oscillator, or my resistor, stability is most important, whereas for the
authors of the paper, stability was not their major concern.
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
--
Javier Herrero
Chief Technology Officer EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com
HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806
Teide 4, Núcleo 1 Of. 0.1 FAX: +34 949 336 792
28703 San Sebastián de los Reyes - Madrid - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.
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and follow the instructions there.
Hi
The “thermoelectrc chamber” in that paper is the gizmo. There is / was a better paper
diving into the unit in a bit more detail. Even that did not get down to issues like the controller,
the driver, or the power consumption. Indeed one wonders if there is a giant heatsink and fan
on the bottom of the unit ….. again, no real information.
Bob
On Jul 12, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz wrote:
Figure 5 in http://www.wenzel.com/wp-content/uploads/Sub-pico-Multiplier.pdf
??
Bruce
On 13 July 2019 at 05:23 Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
If you do go the TEC route, plan on a fairly big power source :). There is a
Wenzel doc on doing a TEC based enclosure using a couple of die cast
boxes. The pictures don’t show what they used to drive the beast so part of
it would still be up to you. My search skills and their web site are not quite
compatible so no link …. sorry !!!
Bob
On Jul 12, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Javier Herrero jherrero@hvsistemas.es wrote:
Hello,
A TEC is good if you want to maintain the resistors at 25ºC, that seems the zero TC point for some precision low TCR resistors (for example, the Vishay VFCP or VSMP series)
Regards,
Javier
On 12/7/19 10:06, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 08:07, Bernd Neubig BNeubig@t-online.de wrote:
AXTAL has a miniature oven for heating precision resistors or other
components to a constant temperature. It is housed in a small DIP8 package.
See attached AXR135 data sheet.
Optionally this device can be offered unsealed, ready for inserting the
component by yourself
Regards
Bernd
The resistors I am using are made by Caddock, are 1 M ohm & 10 M ohm, 0.01%
tolerance and 5 ppm / deg C. They are much too large to fit in a DIP8
package. A quick check with a ruler indicates that the 10 M ohm is 38 x 12
mm and the 1 M ohm is 19 x 10 mm.
A quick photograph shows this half finished project. Unfortunately, even
before I have finished it, I am wishing I had done a better job. However,
my original reason for doing this was to check the stability of a data
acquisition unit before sending it to Keysight. I think this will be good
enough for that, but I could certainly have done a job with some thought.
The thermocouple is just meant to be a temperature sensor that dissipates
no power. A thermistor or RTD buried in the polystyrene would have just got
hot. The resistors should not get hot, as the power dissipated will be
under 1 uW.
I also intend putting in a 100 M ohm resistor, but the specification of
that is much poorer (5%, 100 ppm/ deg C. )
I partially read the paper mentioned. I note that the authors used a thermo
electric cooler (TEC) as they wanted get low temperatures. I assume that
for crystals or resistors dissipating little heat, a TEC would be
unnecessary, and just a resistor acting as a heater would be fine. But will
read some of the references. Obviously for controlling a crystal
oscillator, or my resistor, stability is most important, whereas for the
authors of the paper, stability was not their major concern.
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
--
Javier Herrero
Chief Technology Officer EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com
HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806
Teide 4, Núcleo 1 Of. 0.1 FAX: +34 949 336 792
28703 San Sebastián de los Reyes - Madrid - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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