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TWL: re: equipment reliability

JD
Jim Donohue
Tue, Jul 1, 2003 4:52 AM

Ray - Remember I worked in a company that actually cared...I know a how lot
about life cycle costs.  I also worked on the same product families after
the battle with the Japanese was joined.  Anybody who tells you our friends
win by life cycle costs simply does not understand.

There are a number of known and provable steps that will significantly lower
the present value of life cycle costs.  There is close to nobody (maybe the
aircraft folk) that actually implements them.

Simply minimizing warranty failures will likely have tails that run to two
or three times the warrantee period.  So minimizing warrantee may well give
a pretty good outcome for a while.

Note that one of the clever things the Japanese did was use very reliable
component with known and projectible wear out failures.  And in general
these failures were irrepairable.  So 3.5 years out give or take a year your
very reliable copier died.  You loved their reliablity so of course you
bought a new one.

Three sigma, six sigma, ISO and on and on and on.  Management Pablum.  Magic
bullet solutions.  GE has it down you say...ever look at who brings up the
bottom of reliability in the appliance industry?

Interestingly I had some significant dealings on quality issues with some GE
units.  Some of the best quality and reliability efforts I know of...other
places in GE...utterly hopeless.  How long they been running six sigma
now...20 years?  Going to pay off soon.

Forgive my intransigence.  This stuff is relatively straightforward.  But
until we are actually willing to sell product on life cycle costs we are not
going to build past the bean counter cutoffs.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of m/v
MOJO
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:19 AM
To: TWL
Subject: TWL: re: equipment reliability

Ranting and Raving!

Ray


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Ray - Remember I worked in a company that actually cared...I know a how lot about life cycle costs. I also worked on the same product families after the battle with the Japanese was joined. Anybody who tells you our friends win by life cycle costs simply does not understand. There are a number of known and provable steps that will significantly lower the present value of life cycle costs. There is close to nobody (maybe the aircraft folk) that actually implements them. Simply minimizing warranty failures will likely have tails that run to two or three times the warrantee period. So minimizing warrantee may well give a pretty good outcome for a while. Note that one of the clever things the Japanese did was use very reliable component with known and projectible wear out failures. And in general these failures were irrepairable. So 3.5 years out give or take a year your very reliable copier died. You loved their reliablity so of course you bought a new one. Three sigma, six sigma, ISO and on and on and on. Management Pablum. Magic bullet solutions. GE has it down you say...ever look at who brings up the bottom of reliability in the appliance industry? Interestingly I had some significant dealings on quality issues with some GE units. Some of the best quality and reliability efforts I know of...other places in GE...utterly hopeless. How long they been running six sigma now...20 years? Going to pay off soon. Forgive my intransigence. This stuff is relatively straightforward. But until we are actually willing to sell product on life cycle costs we are not going to build past the bean counter cutoffs. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com > [mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of m/v > MOJO > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:19 AM > To: TWL > Subject: TWL: re: equipment reliability > > > > Ranting and Raving! > > Ray > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawler-world-list > > To Unsubscribe send email to trawler-world-list-request@lists.samurai.com > Include the word "Unsubscribe" (and nothing else) in the subject > or body of the message. > >
MM
m/v MOJO
Tue, Jul 1, 2003 1:18 PM

snip>>

For the conventional manufacturer this is not all a good thing.  While he
would like to minimize infant mortality that would impact warranty costs he
is not interesting in reducing failures after the warranty period.  So
unless he can get a warranty payback he is not interested.  Given limited
production runs he may even decide to take the warranty hits as cheaper than
the cost of functional test...any he may be correct in the straight
economics.

endsnip >>

Jim;

I have to take issue with your assessment of the "conventional manufacturer"
having a negative incentive to produce products that outlast the warranty
period.  This is just plain and simple old style thinking!  Enlightened
companies recognize that technological progress and/or the changing needs of
their customers often obsoletes products long before they break or wear out,
giving the company the opportunity for repeat sales to the same customer.
Additionally, given the speed information travels today via the internet,
etc., a handful of dissatisfied customers can negatively influence thousands
of potential sales opportunities.  Customers expect performance,
reliability, competitive prices, on-time delivery, service before and after
the sale and more.  Unless you build a quality product as seen from the eyes
of the customer, not the bean counters, you don't stand a chance of long
term survival.  In today's globally competitive environment, keeping
customers happy is a necessity, if you don't, someone else will!  As an
example, take a look at GE's "six sigma" program - an across the company
commitment to driving defects in every process, not just products, but
processes as well, to tolerances of six sigma or less - that's less than 3.4
defects per million!  And all 300,000+ employees are trained in the
strategy, statistical tools and techniques of six sigma.  They have a
saying, "Our Customers Feel the Variance, Not the Mean".  I believe more and
more companies today are adopting this approach to quality.  My personal
experience is that especially in the area of consumer electronics, we're
seeing quality far beyond what was available even 5 years ago.  Of course
there are exceptions - from the reports on this list, RayMarine seems to be
struggling with a number of them.  But unless they are corrected fairly
quickly RayMarine may not be a player in future.  There have been some
comments that the never ending market demand for low price is one of the
causes of a reduction in quality.  But, as consumers we have a right to
demand the highest quality products and the lowest possible prices.
Manufacturers can either accept this challenge and embrace the opportunity
to deliver or over time they will be replaced by other manufacturers who do.
As long as we avoid monopolistic practices, the consumer will continue to
benefit from this process.

Ranting and Raving!

Ray

snip>> For the conventional manufacturer this is not all a good thing. While he would like to minimize infant mortality that would impact warranty costs he is not interesting in reducing failures after the warranty period. So unless he can get a warranty payback he is not interested. Given limited production runs he may even decide to take the warranty hits as cheaper than the cost of functional test...any he may be correct in the straight economics. endsnip >> Jim; I have to take issue with your assessment of the "conventional manufacturer" having a negative incentive to produce products that outlast the warranty period. This is just plain and simple old style thinking! Enlightened companies recognize that technological progress and/or the changing needs of their customers often obsoletes products long before they break or wear out, giving the company the opportunity for repeat sales to the same customer. Additionally, given the speed information travels today via the internet, etc., a handful of dissatisfied customers can negatively influence thousands of potential sales opportunities. Customers expect performance, reliability, competitive prices, on-time delivery, service before and after the sale and more. Unless you build a quality product as seen from the eyes of the customer, not the bean counters, you don't stand a chance of long term survival. In today's globally competitive environment, keeping customers happy is a necessity, if you don't, someone else will! As an example, take a look at GE's "six sigma" program - an across the company commitment to driving defects in every process, not just products, but processes as well, to tolerances of six sigma or less - that's less than 3.4 defects per million! And all 300,000+ employees are trained in the strategy, statistical tools and techniques of six sigma. They have a saying, "Our Customers Feel the Variance, Not the Mean". I believe more and more companies today are adopting this approach to quality. My personal experience is that especially in the area of consumer electronics, we're seeing quality far beyond what was available even 5 years ago. Of course there are exceptions - from the reports on this list, RayMarine seems to be struggling with a number of them. But unless they are corrected fairly quickly RayMarine may not be a player in future. There have been some comments that the never ending market demand for low price is one of the causes of a reduction in quality. But, as consumers we have a right to demand the highest quality products and the lowest possible prices. Manufacturers can either accept this challenge and embrace the opportunity to deliver or over time they will be replaced by other manufacturers who do. As long as we avoid monopolistic practices, the consumer will continue to benefit from this process. Ranting and Raving! Ray
AJ
Arild Jensen
Tue, Jul 1, 2003 5:01 PM

Ray wrote"

I have to take issue with your assessment of the "conventional manufacturer"
having a negative incentive to produce products that outlast the warranty
period.  This is just plain and simple old style thinking!  Enlightened
companies recognize . . . < Big snip>

Of course there are exceptions - from the reports on this list, RayMarine seems
to be
struggling with a number of them.  But unless they are corrected fairly
quickly RayMarine may not be a player in future. <<<<< snip>>>>>>>
Manufacturers can either accept this challenge and embrace the opportunity
to deliver or over time they will be replaced by other manufacturers who do.
As long as we avoid monopolistic practices, the consumer will continue to
benefit from this process.

REPLY

While I agree quality has improved in  some consumer product sectors;  which
marine product manufacturers  fit into the "enlightened"  category?
Especially  the marine electrical category.

Right now the only technological innovations being implemented in the boat
building  industry  seems to be driven more by ecological concerns.
Engines are going electronic to reduce emissions,  fiberglass hulls are being
formed in closed molds to  reduce emissions of styrene etc.
The benefits of this to the consumer only becomes apparent after the fact. It is
not the main driving force.

Regards

Arild


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Ray wrote" I have to take issue with your assessment of the "conventional manufacturer" having a negative incentive to produce products that outlast the warranty period. This is just plain and simple old style thinking! Enlightened companies recognize . . . < Big snip> Of course there are exceptions - from the reports on this list, RayMarine seems to be struggling with a number of them. But unless they are corrected fairly quickly RayMarine may not be a player in future. <<<<< snip>>>>>>> Manufacturers can either accept this challenge and embrace the opportunity to deliver or over time they will be replaced by other manufacturers who do. As long as we avoid monopolistic practices, the consumer will continue to benefit from this process. REPLY While I agree quality has improved in some consumer product sectors; which marine product manufacturers fit into the "enlightened" category? Especially the marine electrical category. Right now the only technological innovations being implemented in the boat building industry seems to be driven more by ecological concerns. Engines are going electronic to reduce emissions, fiberglass hulls are being formed in closed molds to reduce emissions of styrene etc. The benefits of this to the consumer only becomes apparent after the fact. It is not the main driving force. Regards Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002
PJ
Philip J. Rosch
Wed, Jul 2, 2003 5:01 PM

The systemic problem is many, if not most organizations, treat their
employees like a commodity, easily disposed of, easily replaced. People
have long memories and respond accordingly. This short circuits any
attempts at six sigma with a "make your numbers or die" strategy.

Most of my speaking engagements had a theme of "Security isn't a
technology problem, its a people problem!".

I do love my old PPI Raytheon RADAR!

                               Regards.....

Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V "Curmudgeon" Marine Trader 44 TC
Currently Moored in Block Island, RI

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't
do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from
the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

The systemic problem is many, if not most organizations, treat their employees like a commodity, easily disposed of, easily replaced. People have long memories and respond accordingly. This short circuits any attempts at six sigma with a "make your numbers or die" strategy. Most of my speaking engagements had a theme of "Security isn't a technology problem, its a people problem!". I do love my old PPI Raytheon RADAR! Regards..... Phil Rosch Old Harbor Consulting M/V "Curmudgeon" Marine Trader 44 TC Currently Moored in Block Island, RI "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain