El 23/12/2010 19:08, Chris Albertson escribió: > > > There are some really great embedded processors out. The problem is > software. If you pick some "exotic" processor then you will be the > only one to write software for it. To avoid that I'd pick one that > "most" people already know. The bottleneck in these projects is always > software and you should design hardware to minimize that problem even > if it adds $20 to the cost. No need to pick an exotic one, and software is not a great bottleneck. If you write bare-metal applications, you can done all in C (I've done a lot with ARM and never wrote a line in assembler for it). Also, lots of free tools (for ARM, for AVR, etc.). If you use a processor running an embedded OS like uClinux, you have not to bother to write the low level software (the one that interacts directly with the h/w) except if you need to write a driver for some peripheral, and you get full networking support, solid state disk support and lots more. But you need more ROM and more RAM (quite a bit more). > > > > That said the basic counter project should NOT need such a powerful > CPU. A little 8-bit uP with 14 pins should be enough. > When you have a decent ARM for <$10, and a great ARM for <$20 with USB, 100Mbps Ethernet including phy, CAN, I2C, SPI, SSI, lots of timers, etc... and a 32-bit core running at 50 or 80MHz, you tend to forget anything like an 8-bit PIC (I'm talking about one-off projects or small series - for large series, hardware cost is ever more important - and PICs are not unexpensive except for the very small ones, either. In the first cases, only one hour in software development that you can save using a more powerful processor rentabilizes it) And for time nuts, the LM3S9B96 even has IEEE-1588 support ;) Development kits for the LM3S9B9x are in the order of $100 and looks very nice even for including 'as is' in a one-off project (not in a series - long term delivery is never guaranteed). Check Mouser (for example) for them. Regards, Javier -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com

Gosh, Javier, I went to your website, and found one of my favorite peeves: it says "low cost" without a hint of the price. I've found that this combination usually means "way out of my price class" or, "if you have to ask, it's too high", or "low cost for a big company with a research budget". Sorry, just my prejudices showing. Don Javier Herrero > El 23/12/2010 05:24, Bob Bownes escribió: >> >> >> ARM or other general purpose CPU is interesting, but at what cost for >> complexity and/or software development? It would require RAM, IO >> support, and boot rom at the very least. Not insurmountable, but at a >> cost to complexity. >> > If you are not planifying to use an embedded operating system like > uClinux or embedded linux, no need for external RAM or ROM. There are > lot of ARMs from several manufacturers with 256kB flash and 64kB RAM or > more for <$20, with a nice set of peripherals (USB, UARTs, CAN, even > Ethernet without the need of an external phy). Software tools can range > from free (GCC + eclipse) to quite expensive (IAR). > > If you plan to use an embedded operating system, then more RAM, more > ROM... > > We've an embedded processor board that includes a Blackfin, 16 or 32MB > flash, 32 or 64MB RAM and a 250,000 gate FPGA, and belive me, it is not > so expensive (and if it would be interesting for a project like this, we > could try to make a series with special time-nuts price) > http://www.hvsistemas.com/en/prod/H8606.html > > Regards, > > Javier > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com > Chief Technology Officer > HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 > Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 > 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

Simply ask ;) Seriously, I think that this kind of things are not too much money, like for example the ADSP-BF537 Stamp from Analog Devices http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ADZS-BF537-STAMP-ND We are not building this one in large quantities, but we've used it as an starting point for several projects (see the space projects section on my web... all of them have one or more inside ;) ) Do you think that the STAMP from ADI is too expensive? :) Regards, Javier El 23/12/2010 21:52, Don Latham escribió: > Gosh, Javier, I went to your website, and found one of my favorite peeves: > it says "low cost" without a hint of the price. I've found that this > combination usually means "way out of my price class" or, "if you have to > ask, it's too high", or "low cost for a big company with a research > budget". > Sorry, just my prejudices showing. > Don > > Javier Herrero >> El 23/12/2010 05:24, Bob Bownes escribió: >>> >>> >>> ARM or other general purpose CPU is interesting, but at what cost for >>> complexity and/or software development? It would require RAM, IO >>> support, and boot rom at the very least. Not insurmountable, but at a >>> cost to complexity. >>> >> If you are not planifying to use an embedded operating system like >> uClinux or embedded linux, no need for external RAM or ROM. There are >> lot of ARMs from several manufacturers with 256kB flash and 64kB RAM or >> more for<$20, with a nice set of peripherals (USB, UARTs, CAN, even >> Ethernet without the need of an external phy). Software tools can range >> from free (GCC + eclipse) to quite expensive (IAR). >> >> If you plan to use an embedded operating system, then more RAM, more >> ROM... >> >> We've an embedded processor board that includes a Blackfin, 16 or 32MB >> flash, 32 or 64MB RAM and a 250,000 gate FPGA, and belive me, it is not >> so expensive (and if it would be interesting for a project like this, we >> could try to make a series with special time-nuts price) >> http://www.hvsistemas.com/en/prod/H8606.html >> >> Regards, >> >> Javier >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com >> Chief Technology Officer >> HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 >> Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 >> 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com

I think the ADSP-stamp is about $100 overpriced at least. there are boards available with more capability for less. There is an old saying that noone was ever fired for buying IBM, maybe that's why AD charges what they do. meantime, microchip is laughing all the way to the bank... That said, your board is about right if that is the price for the development system. I do appreciate it was started for your own use. Certainly the fpga and blackfin will do the job along with some good front end electronics! Merry Christmas to you and yours. Don Javier Herrero > Simply ask ;) > > Seriously, I think that this kind of things are not too much money, like > for example the ADSP-BF537 Stamp from Analog Devices > http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ADZS-BF537-STAMP-ND > > We are not building this one in large quantities, but we've used it as > an starting point for several projects (see the space projects section > on my web... all of them have one or more inside ;) ) > > Do you think that the STAMP from ADI is too expensive? :) > > Regards, > > Javier > > El 23/12/2010 21:52, Don Latham escribió: >> Gosh, Javier, I went to your website, and found one of my favorite >> peeves: >> it says "low cost" without a hint of the price. I've found that this >> combination usually means "way out of my price class" or, "if you have >> to >> ask, it's too high", or "low cost for a big company with a research >> budget". >> Sorry, just my prejudices showing. >> Don >> >> Javier Herrero >>> El 23/12/2010 05:24, Bob Bownes escribió: >>>> >>>> >>>> ARM or other general purpose CPU is interesting, but at what cost for >>>> complexity and/or software development? It would require RAM, IO >>>> support, and boot rom at the very least. Not insurmountable, but at a >>>> cost to complexity. >>>> >>> If you are not planifying to use an embedded operating system like >>> uClinux or embedded linux, no need for external RAM or ROM. There are >>> lot of ARMs from several manufacturers with 256kB flash and 64kB RAM or >>> more for<$20, with a nice set of peripherals (USB, UARTs, CAN, even >>> Ethernet without the need of an external phy). Software tools can range >>> from free (GCC + eclipse) to quite expensive (IAR). >>> >>> If you plan to use an embedded operating system, then more RAM, more >>> ROM... >>> >>> We've an embedded processor board that includes a Blackfin, 16 or 32MB >>> flash, 32 or 64MB RAM and a 250,000 gate FPGA, and belive me, it is not >>> so expensive (and if it would be interesting for a project like this, >>> we >>> could try to make a series with special time-nuts price) >>> http://www.hvsistemas.com/en/prod/H8606.html >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Javier >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Javier Herrero EMAIL: >>> jherrero@hvsistemas.com >>> Chief Technology Officer >>> HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 >>> 806 >>> Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 >>> 792 >>> 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: >>> http://www.hvsistemas.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com > Chief Technology Officer > HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 > Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 > 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

I suppose that it all depends on the production quantity :) Well, the ADSP-BF537 EZKIT is quite more expensive and does not provides too muchs not included in the STAM... and if you like to see thing really expensive, this is an example: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=544-2605-ND Merry Christmas and happy new year to all of you! Best regards, Javier El 24/12/2010 01:35, Don Latham escribió: > I think the ADSP-stamp is about $100 overpriced at least. there are boards > available with more capability for less. There is an old saying that noone > was ever fired for buying IBM, maybe that's why AD charges what they do. > meantime, microchip is laughing all the way to the bank... > That said, your board is about right if that is the price for the > development system. I do appreciate it was started for your own use. > Certainly the fpga and blackfin will do the job along with some good front > end electronics! > Merry Christmas to you and yours. > Don > > > > > > Javier Herrero >> Simply ask ;) >> >> Seriously, I think that this kind of things are not too much money, like >> for example the ADSP-BF537 Stamp from Analog Devices >> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ADZS-BF537-STAMP-ND >> >> We are not building this one in large quantities, but we've used it as >> an starting point for several projects (see the space projects section >> on my web... all of them have one or more inside ;) ) >> >> Do you think that the STAMP from ADI is too expensive? :) >> >> Regards, >> >> Javier >> >> El 23/12/2010 21:52, Don Latham escribió: >>> Gosh, Javier, I went to your website, and found one of my favorite >>> peeves: >>> it says "low cost" without a hint of the price. I've found that this >>> combination usually means "way out of my price class" or, "if you have >>> to >>> ask, it's too high", or "low cost for a big company with a research >>> budget". >>> Sorry, just my prejudices showing. >>> Don >>> >>> Javier Herrero >>>> El 23/12/2010 05:24, Bob Bownes escribió: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ARM or other general purpose CPU is interesting, but at what cost for >>>>> complexity and/or software development? It would require RAM, IO >>>>> support, and boot rom at the very least. Not insurmountable, but at a >>>>> cost to complexity. >>>>> >>>> If you are not planifying to use an embedded operating system like >>>> uClinux or embedded linux, no need for external RAM or ROM. There are >>>> lot of ARMs from several manufacturers with 256kB flash and 64kB RAM or >>>> more for<$20, with a nice set of peripherals (USB, UARTs, CAN, even >>>> Ethernet without the need of an external phy). Software tools can range >>>> from free (GCC + eclipse) to quite expensive (IAR). >>>> >>>> If you plan to use an embedded operating system, then more RAM, more >>>> ROM... >>>> >>>> We've an embedded processor board that includes a Blackfin, 16 or 32MB >>>> flash, 32 or 64MB RAM and a 250,000 gate FPGA, and belive me, it is not >>>> so expensive (and if it would be interesting for a project like this, >>>> we >>>> could try to make a series with special time-nuts price) >>>> http://www.hvsistemas.com/en/prod/H8606.html >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Javier >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Javier Herrero EMAIL: >>>> jherrero@hvsistemas.com >>>> Chief Technology Officer >>>> HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 >>>> 806 >>>> Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 >>>> 792 >>>> 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: >>>> http://www.hvsistemas.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com >> Chief Technology Officer >> HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 >> Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 >> 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com

yikes! only for us government contractors. Don Javier Herrero > I suppose that it all depends on the production quantity :) Well, the > ADSP-BF537 EZKIT is quite more expensive and does not provides too muchs > not included in the STAM... and if you like to see thing really > expensive, this is an example: > http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=544-2605-ND > > > Merry Christmas and happy new year to all of you! > > Best regards, > > Javier > > El 24/12/2010 01:35, Don Latham escribió: >> I think the ADSP-stamp is about $100 overpriced at least. there are >> boards >> available with more capability for less. There is an old saying that >> noone >> was ever fired for buying IBM, maybe that's why AD charges what they do. >> meantime, microchip is laughing all the way to the bank... >> That said, your board is about right if that is the price for the >> development system. I do appreciate it was started for your own use. >> Certainly the fpga and blackfin will do the job along with some good >> front >> end electronics! >> Merry Christmas to you and yours. >> Don >> >> >> >> >> >> Javier Herrero >>> Simply ask ;) >>> >>> Seriously, I think that this kind of things are not too much money, >>> like >>> for example the ADSP-BF537 Stamp from Analog Devices >>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ADZS-BF537-STAMP-ND >>> >>> We are not building this one in large quantities, but we've used it as >>> an starting point for several projects (see the space projects section >>> on my web... all of them have one or more inside ;) ) >>> >>> Do you think that the STAMP from ADI is too expensive? :) >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Javier >>> >>> El 23/12/2010 21:52, Don Latham escribió: >>>> Gosh, Javier, I went to your website, and found one of my favorite >>>> peeves: >>>> it says "low cost" without a hint of the price. I've found that this >>>> combination usually means "way out of my price class" or, "if you have >>>> to >>>> ask, it's too high", or "low cost for a big company with a research >>>> budget". >>>> Sorry, just my prejudices showing. >>>> Don >>>> >>>> Javier Herrero >>>>> El 23/12/2010 05:24, Bob Bownes escribió: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ARM or other general purpose CPU is interesting, but at what cost >>>>>> for >>>>>> complexity and/or software development? It would require RAM, IO >>>>>> support, and boot rom at the very least. Not insurmountable, but at >>>>>> a >>>>>> cost to complexity. >>>>>> >>>>> If you are not planifying to use an embedded operating system like >>>>> uClinux or embedded linux, no need for external RAM or ROM. There are >>>>> lot of ARMs from several manufacturers with 256kB flash and 64kB RAM >>>>> or >>>>> more for<$20, with a nice set of peripherals (USB, UARTs, CAN, even >>>>> Ethernet without the need of an external phy). Software tools can >>>>> range >>>>> from free (GCC + eclipse) to quite expensive (IAR). >>>>> >>>>> If you plan to use an embedded operating system, then more RAM, more >>>>> ROM... >>>>> >>>>> We've an embedded processor board that includes a Blackfin, 16 or >>>>> 32MB >>>>> flash, 32 or 64MB RAM and a 250,000 gate FPGA, and belive me, it is >>>>> not >>>>> so expensive (and if it would be interesting for a project like this, >>>>> we >>>>> could try to make a series with special time-nuts price) >>>>> http://www.hvsistemas.com/en/prod/H8606.html >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Javier >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Javier Herrero EMAIL: >>>>> jherrero@hvsistemas.com >>>>> Chief Technology Officer >>>>> HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 >>>>> 806 >>>>> Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 >>>>> 792 >>>>> 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: >>>>> http://www.hvsistemas.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Javier Herrero EMAIL: >>> jherrero@hvsistemas.com >>> Chief Technology Officer >>> HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 >>> 806 >>> Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 >>> 792 >>> 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: >>> http://www.hvsistemas.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherrero@hvsistemas.com > Chief Technology Officer > HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 > Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 > 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com