Ron, One of the "joys" of on-line humor, especially the dry kind without lots of added emoticons, is that once in a while it comes across as a slap instead of a tickle. We've all been there and done that. I understood exactly what you were saying and chuckled at your initial posting, given I know Peter well. He's such an enthusiastic cruiser, starting (as I did) with zero knowledge but now is accomplished by any standards, so I always enjoy his posts, prickly or not. Many long-time "mariners" look down their nose at those of us who retire and go out and buy expensive Nordhavns with our great plans. They snicker and wonder how long it will take to sink the boat, or if it'll become a condo queen. But Peter is one of the folks who reminds us that its really possible to do exactly what Nordhavn advertises and enjoy every minute of it (well, almost). I'm not in Peter's class, but I've gone from zero to 10,000 nm on my N55 now, and find that I'm a lot more comfortable going to the wild places and traveling in weather than most of the "old hands". When we came down a large section of the "boat-eating outside passage" from Alaska this summer (instead of the usual "inside passage"), some people thought we were crazy. But we loved every minute of it, despite the rocks, marginal charting, fog and sea conditions. Most especially the fact that we rarely saw another boat (other than friends on another Nordhavn who we'd arranged to periodically catch up with). I've concluded that powerboat cruisers come in the following sizes: 1) Very experienced and often traveling great distances, basically staying out of marinas most of the time. They are closer to cruising sailboaters than anything else. Old salts. Whatever. They spend very little or no time on the internet and email, so in general, we often don't hear from them unless we happen to cross their paths. Plenty of N46 owners in this group. 2) Guys like Peter who buy a capable, state-of-the-art trawler yacht and then very deliberately learn how to operate it, maintain it, and use it to go remote places that are well outside the usual pattern for powerboats, gaining years of experience in every month of adventurous travel. Well connected to the internet via modern systems, so we get to hear from them. (A few years ago, I'm told you could determine if you were in one of those remote places because you were the only powerboat among many sailboats. But there are more powerboats showing up every year. Nordhavns still lead that list, but we increasingly find Kady's and Diesel Ducks and the occasional Selene, along with a smattering of custom trawler yachts.) Adventurous cruising used to be a young sailboater's game, and still largely is, but now a good trawler yacht gives us older guys a chance to play. 3) Guys who have owned powerboats for decades and use them a few weeks each summer, keep them mostly in marinas, and rarely/never go to remote and/or difficult-to-reach places, but who have a very high regard for their vast years of experience and knowledge. They only go out when the weather is perfect and, upon getting caught in bad weather, run for port with a story of heroic adventure. We've (briefly) cruised with such types, and we just keep on going in bad weather while they go and hide. This group drives me absolutely batsh*t, because in most cases, they haven't a clue about adventurous cruising, but they've got LOTS of opinions based on their "many years", and a lack of regard for folks in category 2 above. I've come to the conclusion that miles traveled and nights spent at anchor are the real measure of expertise. Whether you are underway or at anchor, no matter how good your planning, the sea and weather will conspire to ensure that interesting stuff happens, and that will force you to learn, and in a hurry. Days spent in a marina have either zero or negative value (given you often wind up relying on someone else to deal with issues). I'm of the opinion that the new owner of a trawler yacht, who has never been on a boat before, but who really uses his or her boat and studies every aspect of it can become a lot more accomplished in 2 or 3 years than those "experts" who have been boating for 30 years. John Marshall N55-20 Serendipity On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Ron Rogers wrote > > My mind missed something, Tim. I cannot understand how I sent this > email to this list when my attempt at humor should have gone to the > PUP list. PUP is the Passagemaking Under Power List and was created > by Georgs Kolesnikovs to compliment his Trawlers & Trawlering List. > Peter own an N55 in Australia and was lamenting the fact that PUP is > rather moribund. He is circumnavigating Australia in segments and > suggested that he was merely a shoe salesman (se email at bottom.) > he did so to highlight the fact that he wasnt some kind of master > mechanic/navigator. I was trying to suggest that he was a bit more > than a shoe salesman if he could invest in an N55. But his point was > that even a person with a background as a shoe salesman has had the > courage to take off voyaging. > > > > However, the Nordhavn Dreamers List has captured peoples > imaginations better than PUP has. Of course, people voyage in all > kinds and brands of boats and PUP wants them to talk about their > voyaging experiences. It is just the vagaries of the Internet > marketplace. > > > > Ron Rogers > > > > From: NordhavnDreamers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NordhavnDreamers@yahoogroups.com > ] On Behalf Of tim_morris_uk > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:35 AM > To: NordhavnDreamers@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [NordhavnDreamers] Re: [PUP] Manifest unsafe voyage > > > > > > Ron, have I missed something here? What's [PUP] etc., and where did > this thread come from, and what did peter sheppard write in the > first place? > > --- In NordhavnDreamers@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Rogers" > <rcrogers6@...> wrote: > > > > OK Peter, just how many Manolo Blahnik shoes does one have to sell > to > > purchase an N55? Are there that many "Sheilas" in Oz to place your > venture > > on a firm footing? I'm thinking that the heart and "sole" of your > success is > > that you built a chain of shoe stores. {;*)) > > > > Ron Rogers > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Sheppard > > > > To cap it off as a measure of encouragement to others, I am a ladies > > shoe salesman starting out with zero understanding of anything > > mechanical whatsoever. I am approaching 66 yrs old, and will rack up > > 18,000 nm at the end of this year in a little over 2 years. Yes > I'm a > > lot smarter now of course, but better off I believe than many of my > > friends at home falling off their twig playing golf. > > > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic (3)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Members > MARKETPLACE > Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > families, for the world and for each other > > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! 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Or there are nuts like me who like rough weather as it gets the juices flowing. Not survival weather, just some waves with higher winds - left over from my sailing days. There is another category: trawler owners who are former sailors. We usually drive yards and vendors crazy because we tend to be detail oriented and would prefer to do the work ourselves. Most of us do that because we have always fantasized about taking our sailboats around the world and being able to fix everything on them by ourselves. I could not agree more, it is the quality of your experience and not the time spent breathing salt air that makes you knowledgeable. I once sailed in a weekend overnight race in a near gale. According to the Coast Guard, we had 32 foot waves (with decent separation) and my boat was 27 feet long. We had an unfortunate ("Chinese") jibe which broke my mainsail track and sent us off toward Bermuda at 7.5 knots when we wanted to go home in the opposite direction. Allot of learning got crammed into those 48 hours and we were very happy to be back in our beds Sunday night instead of still at sea. You cannot tell a book by its cover here on the waterfront. I have met some amazing people on my dock as they gently offer advice, I have come to learn that one is a former merchant skipper with the world under his keel and another is a former career Coast Guard officer. Some others are not sure how to charge a battery. So you learn from some and you help others. Getting away from the dock is key to both experience and mental health. I just defended Nordhavn owners against a fellow who had a chip on his shoulder (color him jealous) because of his assumptions. So those envious people do exist. I did not enquire about his true experience. BTW, I now associate really rough weather with peanut butter crackers as that was all I could eat in one very confused storm. Ron Rogers