Hmmm, so that would argue in favor of the no drop argument as we have to stay clumped to be a club :)
Alison

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: David Berry dberry102@hotmail.com
Date:05/06/2015 1:24 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Teresa Koransky teresa@koransky.com
Cc: talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides

Well since we are being pedantic. The origin of the word club evolved from the Middle Dutch and Middle Low German word Klumpe to Middle English clump. The definition of which is a closely grouped number of objects plants or animals.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 12:35 PM, "Teresa Koransky" <teresa@koransky.commailto:teresa@koransky.com> wrote:

Sorry to disagree with you, Dave, but a “club” is : an association of two or more people united by a common interest or goal. A service clubhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_club, for example, exists for voluntary or charitable activities; there are clubs devoted to hobbies and sports, social activities clubs, political and religious clubs, and so forth.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club  Kind of like what Robin stated.

If the only “members” of this club are those involved in one of the only two rides you have posted, then are many of us are not “members”?  As your website states, you are a “club for all riders”.  Is this then not really the case?  Your website mentions “close ties” to Chaffee County Mentors, Salida Mountain Trails, volunteering, and races.  I’m just wondering how is this done without meetings, group gatherings, etc.? Where does that membership money really go?

Sorry to ruffle feathers, I’m just trying to figure out what this group is really about…..

Teresa

From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces@list.salidacyclingclub.com] On Behalf Of David Berry
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 11:45 AM
To: Robin NeJame
Cc: talk@list.salidacyclingclub.commailto:talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides

Well I believe a club implies a collective activity done by a group. And one of the most important activities of a bicycle club is participating in group rides. If everyone on a ride diffuses into individuals and very small groups it's not a collective activity. Also, other than the summer race sponsored by the club, I'm not aware of any community activities that involve the members as a group. Other than the annual membership meeting there are certainly no other social activities. So if we don't have social rides we have nothing to tie us to the club.
Also I agree with Greg regarding the donation of $5000 of club money to a huge, commercial bike race with no member input to the decision was somewhat outrageous. We have a struggling Boys and Girls club here, much better that money went to something like that.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:49 AM, "Robin NeJame" <robinnejame@gmail.commailto:robinnejame@gmail.com> wrote:
Just my two cents...  We do really have a club. This club is more than the rides offered.  The rides are just a bonus. It is about a community that shares a similar love, be it mountain biking, road biking, bike touring, spin classes, etc..  It is about advocacy. It is about coming together for community events.  And it is so much more. Much appreciation to the founders, and to those that are working very hard to meet everybody's needs and desires.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:39 AM, David Berry <dberry102@hotmail.commailto:dberry102@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Keeper,
Thanks for the reply but I think you missed my point; my point being that for people to feel part of an inclusive club we need at least one no-drop ride. Surely the hammer heads can organize their own fast rides and show up for cohesiveness sake on the one no-drop ride. I thought that is what the Tuesday night ride is for.
Without the one inclusive ride we don't really have a club.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:29 AM, "Keeper Koepplinger" <keepersalida@gmail.commailto:keepersalida@gmail.com> wrote:
I will get you off the talk list, Michael Hayes. To Dave Berry, we have a multifaceted problem in our club rides. It is that, we do no-drop the faster riders will not show, we go fast, the slower riders won't show, and in more than a few instances, slower riders tell me they don't like the group waiting for them! I think the answer lies in a group start, with pre-determined  break-ups.
Greg Justis and I were talking about at the start, having everyone decide what level they want to ride, start together, and A,B and C ride groups doin their own thing from there. I know for myself, an 1 1/2 to go 13 miles is excruciating. We need all levels of riders to have our club grow and increase in size. There is no reason you cannot post your own ride, stating start, distance, route and pace, and lead it out.
Getting dropped is the worst, and I agree discourages people from coming back. Stopping every few miles and waiting discourages established riders from coming in. We need to tailor ourselves to all levels, and the way to do that is for all levels to actively participate in the process.
This is why I sent this out to the ladies initially, as there are many seeking a testosterone-free environment, still the concept applies to all of our different needs. I know Greg is still recovering, and is willing to lead drop-free, or regrouping rides, and I also am seeing the return of the hammer-heads who live to punish those around them. The bottom line is, don't give up on the club thru this growing-pains period. We are continuing to grow, and the last thing we need right now is to leave anyone feeling alienated from it.
Anyone with any input, please feel free to comment on the talk list, or contact me directly at KeeperSalida@gmail.commailto:KeeperSalida@gmail.com. Until then, hope to see you all soon, peace

On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:17 AM, Michael Hayes <mjhayes15@gmail.commailto:mjhayes15@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Keeper - Could you please unsubscribe me from this email list?  Thank you.

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Keeper Koepplinger <keepersalida@gmail.commailto:keepersalida@gmail.com> wrote:
Women's Club Rides!
We have women riders that are looking for other women to ride with. Two of the big complaints we get are that people don't like waiting on riders to catch up, AND the riders in the back don't like the group waiting on them! The solution is a wider variety of rides!! All you need to do is post the when and where, and show up. We have a vibrant cycling community here, just need a few more leaders to pull the riders together. Please feel free to contact myself, Keeper Koepplinger, or Jeff Porter if you have any questions! We are here for you, Salida cyclists!

Sounds just my “cup of tea”.  Curious on ride levels – is there a “D” ride definition too ☺
Alison

From: Greg Justis [mailto:gregjustis@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 12:11 PM
To: Alison Brown
Cc: David Berry; Teresa Koransky; talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides

Dave and I are talking about leading a "C" ride on a weekend Saturday or Sunday. A  "C"  ride is an easy conversational pace, no drops, no big climbs, and support for any mechanical problems such as flats.  If we do Sunday's we would meet at Cafe Dawn at 9am for energy supplies and then start riding at 10am. We though it can be named the Clump Ride. We will announce the ride on the TALK.

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Alison Brown <abrown@navsys.commailto:abrown@navsys.com> wrote:
Hmmm, so that would argue in favor of the no drop argument as we have to stay clumped to be a club :)
Alison

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: David Berry <dberry102@hotmail.commailto:dberry102@hotmail.com>
Date:05/06/2015 1:24 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Teresa Koransky <teresa@koransky.commailto:teresa@koransky.com>
Cc: talk@list.salidacyclingclub.commailto:talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides
Well since we are being pedantic. The origin of the word club evolved from the Middle Dutch and Middle Low German word Klumpe to Middle English clump. The definition of which is a closely grouped number of objects plants or animals.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 12:35 PM, "Teresa Koransky" <teresa@koransky.commailto:teresa@koransky.com> wrote:
Sorry to disagree with you, Dave, but a “club” is : an association of two or more people united by a common interest or goal. A service clubhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_club, for example, exists for voluntary or charitable activities; there are clubs devoted to hobbies and sports, social activities clubs, political and religious clubs, and so forth.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club  Kind of like what Robin stated.

If the only “members” of this club are those involved in one of the only two rides you have posted, then are many of us are not “members”?  As your website states, you are a “club for all riders”.  Is this then not really the case?  Your website mentions “close ties” to Chaffee County Mentors, Salida Mountain Trails, volunteering, and races.  I’m just wondering how is this done without meetings, group gatherings, etc.? Where does that membership money really go?

Sorry to ruffle feathers, I’m just trying to figure out what this group is really about…..

Teresa

From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces@list.salidacyclingclub.com] On Behalf Of David Berry
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 11:45 AM
To: Robin NeJame
Cc: talk@list.salidacyclingclub.commailto:talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides

Well I believe a club implies a collective activity done by a group. And one of the most important activities of a bicycle club is participating in group rides. If everyone on a ride diffuses into individuals and very small groups it's not a collective activity. Also, other than the summer race sponsored by the club, I'm not aware of any community activities that involve the members as a group. Other than the annual membership meeting there are certainly no other social activities. So if we don't have social rides we have nothing to tie us to the club.
Also I agree with Greg regarding the donation of $5000 of club money to a huge, commercial bike race with no member input to the decision was somewhat outrageous. We have a struggling Boys and Girls club here, much better that money went to something like that.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:49 AM, "Robin NeJame" <robinnejame@gmail.commailto:robinnejame@gmail.com> wrote:
Just my two cents...  We do really have a club. This club is more than the rides offered.  The rides are just a bonus. It is about a community that shares a similar love, be it mountain biking, road biking, bike touring, spin classes, etc..  It is about advocacy. It is about coming together for community events.  And it is so much more. Much appreciation to the founders, and to those that are working very hard to meet everybody's needs and desires.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:39 AM, David Berry <dberry102@hotmail.commailto:dberry102@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Keeper,
Thanks for the reply but I think you missed my point; my point being that for people to feel part of an inclusive club we need at least one no-drop ride. Surely the hammer heads can organize their own fast rides and show up for cohesiveness sake on the one no-drop ride. I thought that is what the Tuesday night ride is for.
Without the one inclusive ride we don't really have a club.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:29 AM, "Keeper Koepplinger" <keepersalida@gmail.commailto:keepersalida@gmail.com> wrote:
I will get you off the talk list, Michael Hayes. To Dave Berry, we have a multifaceted problem in our club rides. It is that, we do no-drop the faster riders will not show, we go fast, the slower riders won't show, and in more than a few instances, slower riders tell me they don't like the group waiting for them! I think the answer lies in a group start, with pre-determined  break-ups.
Greg Justis and I were talking about at the start, having everyone decide what level they want to ride, start together, and A,B and C ride groups doin their own thing from there. I know for myself, an 1 1/2 to go 13 miles is excruciating. We need all levels of riders to have our club grow and increase in size. There is no reason you cannot post your own ride, stating start, distance, route and pace, and lead it out.
Getting dropped is the worst, and I agree discourages people from coming back. Stopping every few miles and waiting discourages established riders from coming in. We need to tailor ourselves to all levels, and the way to do that is for all levels to actively participate in the process.
This is why I sent this out to the ladies initially, as there are many seeking a testosterone-free environment, still the concept applies to all of our different needs. I know Greg is still recovering, and is willing to lead drop-free, or regrouping rides, and I also am seeing the return of the hammer-heads who live to punish those around them. The bottom line is, don't give up on the club thru this growing-pains period. We are continuing to grow, and the last thing we need right now is to leave anyone feeling alienated from it.
Anyone with any input, please feel free to comment on the talk list, or contact me directly at KeeperSalida@gmail.commailto:KeeperSalida@gmail.com. Until then, hope to see you all soon, peace

On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:17 AM, Michael Hayes <mjhayes15@gmail.commailto:mjhayes15@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Keeper - Could you please unsubscribe me from this email list?  Thank you.

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Keeper Koepplinger <keepersalida@gmail.commailto:keepersalida@gmail.com> wrote:
Women's Club Rides!
We have women riders that are looking for other women to ride with. Two of the big complaints we get are that people don't like waiting on riders to catch up, AND the riders in the back don't like the group waiting on them! The solution is a wider variety of rides!! All you need to do is post the when and where, and show up. We have a vibrant cycling community here, just need a few more leaders to pull the riders together. Please feel free to contact myself, Keeper Koepplinger, or Jeff Porter if you have any questions! We are here for you, Salida cyclists!

Since we are being pedantic – how about these for Salida “style” rides ☺

D – a real Dawdle of a ride at a pace where Doggies can run along
E – an exceptionally Easy ride with required stops for libations anywhere that serves Elevation brews
F - …..?

From: David Berry [mailto:dberry102@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 4:30 PM
To: Alison Brown
Cc: Greg Justis; Teresa Koransky; talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides

No D rides yet, but one never knows.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2015, at 4:07 PM, "Alison Brown" <abrown@navsys.commailto:abrown@navsys.com> wrote:
Sounds just my “cup of tea”.  Curious on ride levels – is there a “D” ride definition too ☺
Alison

From: Greg Justis [mailto:gregjustis@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 12:11 PM
To: Alison Brown
Cc: David Berry; Teresa Koransky; talk@list.salidacyclingclub.commailto:talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides

Dave and I are talking about leading a "C" ride on a weekend Saturday or Sunday. A  "C"  ride is an easy conversational pace, no drops, no big climbs, and support for any mechanical problems such as flats.  If we do Sunday's we would meet at Cafe Dawn at 9am for energy supplies and then start riding at 10am. We though it can be named the Clump Ride. We will announce the ride on the TALK.

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Alison Brown <abrown@navsys.commailto:abrown@navsys.com> wrote:
Hmmm, so that would argue in favor of the no drop argument as we have to stay clumped to be a club :)
Alison

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: David Berry <dberry102@hotmail.commailto:dberry102@hotmail.com>
Date:05/06/2015 1:24 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Teresa Koransky <teresa@koransky.commailto:teresa@koransky.com>
Cc: talk@list.salidacyclingclub.commailto:talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides
Well since we are being pedantic. The origin of the word club evolved from the Middle Dutch and Middle Low German word Klumpe to Middle English clump. The definition of which is a closely grouped number of objects plants or animals.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 12:35 PM, "Teresa Koransky" <teresa@koransky.commailto:teresa@koransky.com> wrote:
Sorry to disagree with you, Dave, but a “club” is : an association of two or more people united by a common interest or goal. A service clubhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_club, for example, exists for voluntary or charitable activities; there are clubs devoted to hobbies and sports, social activities clubs, political and religious clubs, and so forth.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club  Kind of like what Robin stated.

If the only “members” of this club are those involved in one of the only two rides you have posted, then are many of us are not “members”?  As your website states, you are a “club for all riders”.  Is this then not really the case?  Your website mentions “close ties” to Chaffee County Mentors, Salida Mountain Trails, volunteering, and races.  I’m just wondering how is this done without meetings, group gatherings, etc.? Where does that membership money really go?

Sorry to ruffle feathers, I’m just trying to figure out what this group is really about…..

Teresa

From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces@list.salidacyclingclub.com] On Behalf Of David Berry
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 11:45 AM
To: Robin NeJame
Cc: talk@list.salidacyclingclub.commailto:talk@list.salidacyclingclub.com
Subject: Re: [Talk] Women's Club Rides

Well I believe a club implies a collective activity done by a group. And one of the most important activities of a bicycle club is participating in group rides. If everyone on a ride diffuses into individuals and very small groups it's not a collective activity. Also, other than the summer race sponsored by the club, I'm not aware of any community activities that involve the members as a group. Other than the annual membership meeting there are certainly no other social activities. So if we don't have social rides we have nothing to tie us to the club.
Also I agree with Greg regarding the donation of $5000 of club money to a huge, commercial bike race with no member input to the decision was somewhat outrageous. We have a struggling Boys and Girls club here, much better that money went to something like that.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:49 AM, "Robin NeJame" <robinnejame@gmail.commailto:robinnejame@gmail.com> wrote:
Just my two cents...  We do really have a club. This club is more than the rides offered.  The rides are just a bonus. It is about a community that shares a similar love, be it mountain biking, road biking, bike touring, spin classes, etc..  It is about advocacy. It is about coming together for community events.  And it is so much more. Much appreciation to the founders, and to those that are working very hard to meet everybody's needs and desires.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:39 AM, David Berry <dberry102@hotmail.commailto:dberry102@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Keeper,
Thanks for the reply but I think you missed my point; my point being that for people to feel part of an inclusive club we need at least one no-drop ride. Surely the hammer heads can organize their own fast rides and show up for cohesiveness sake on the one no-drop ride. I thought that is what the Tuesday night ride is for.
Without the one inclusive ride we don't really have a club.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2015, at 9:29 AM, "Keeper Koepplinger" <keepersalida@gmail.commailto:keepersalida@gmail.com> wrote:
I will get you off the talk list, Michael Hayes. To Dave Berry, we have a multifaceted problem in our club rides. It is that, we do no-drop the faster riders will not show, we go fast, the slower riders won't show, and in more than a few instances, slower riders tell me they don't like the group waiting for them! I think the answer lies in a group start, with pre-determined  break-ups.
Greg Justis and I were talking about at the start, having everyone decide what level they want to ride, start together, and A,B and C ride groups doin their own thing from there. I know for myself, an 1 1/2 to go 13 miles is excruciating. We need all levels of riders to have our club grow and increase in size. There is no reason you cannot post your own ride, stating start, distance, route and pace, and lead it out.
Getting dropped is the worst, and I agree discourages people from coming back. Stopping every few miles and waiting discourages established riders from coming in. We need to tailor ourselves to all levels, and the way to do that is for all levels to actively participate in the process.
This is why I sent this out to the ladies initially, as there are many seeking a testosterone-free environment, still the concept applies to all of our different needs. I know Greg is still recovering, and is willing to lead drop-free, or regrouping rides, and I also am seeing the return of the hammer-heads who live to punish those around them. The bottom line is, don't give up on the club thru this growing-pains period. We are continuing to grow, and the last thing we need right now is to leave anyone feeling alienated from it.
Anyone with any input, please feel free to comment on the talk list, or contact me directly at KeeperSalida@gmail.commailto:KeeperSalida@gmail.com. Until then, hope to see you all soon, peace

On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:17 AM, Michael Hayes <mjhayes15@gmail.commailto:mjhayes15@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Keeper - Could you please unsubscribe me from this email list?  Thank you.

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Keeper Koepplinger <keepersalida@gmail.commailto:keepersalida@gmail.com> wrote:
Women's Club Rides!
We have women riders that are looking for other women to ride with. Two of the big complaints we get are that people don't like waiting on riders to catch up, AND the riders in the back don't like the group waiting on them! The solution is a wider variety of rides!! All you need to do is post the when and where, and show up. We have a vibrant cycling community here, just need a few more leaders to pull the riders together. Please feel free to contact myself, Keeper Koepplinger, or Jeff Porter if you have any questions! We are here for you, Salida cyclists!