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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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disciplining sound card

BD
Bill Dailey
Fri, Jul 6, 2012 7:05 PM

What if I post a schematic with a Lattice M4-64/32 CPLD? If you can program
this CPLD I can send the .JED file, the schematic...


I could probably get that done... would have to get a board made... never
done it but could probably manage...some kind of usb blaster to program
it.  I presume the .jed is the code?  I can solder for sure.  Would I be
able to look at the code so I can learn something?

--
Doc

Bill Dailey
KXØO

What if I post a schematic with a Lattice M4-64/32 CPLD? If you can program this CPLD I can send the .JED file, the schematic... --------------------------------- I could probably get that done... would have to get a board made... never done it but could probably manage...some kind of usb blaster to program it. I presume the .jed is the code? I can solder for sure. Would I be able to look at the code so I can learn something? -- Doc Bill Dailey KXØO
AB
Azelio Boriani
Fri, Jul 6, 2012 7:17 PM

It is very simple: let me describe it first. Two dividers and an XOR gate.
This is an FLL and only the frequency consistency is guaranteed but in this
case is enough. The advantage is that only a CPLD is used. I'll send the
VHDL so that it will be possible to use any CPLD. It is possible to
implement a real PLL but in my version an external OP-AMP is needed as I
prefer the UP/DOWN output to be combined externally .

On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Bill Dailey docdailey@gmail.com wrote:

What if I post a schematic with a Lattice M4-64/32 CPLD? If you can program
this CPLD I can send the .JED file, the schematic...


I could probably get that done... would have to get a board made... never
done it but could probably manage...some kind of usb blaster to program
it.  I presume the .jed is the code?  I can solder for sure.  Would I be
able to look at the code so I can learn something?

--
Doc

Bill Dailey
KXØO


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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It is very simple: let me describe it first. Two dividers and an XOR gate. This is an FLL and only the frequency consistency is guaranteed but in this case is enough. The advantage is that only a CPLD is used. I'll send the VHDL so that it will be possible to use any CPLD. It is possible to implement a real PLL but in my version an external OP-AMP is needed as I prefer the UP/DOWN output to be combined externally . On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Bill Dailey <docdailey@gmail.com> wrote: > What if I post a schematic with a Lattice M4-64/32 CPLD? If you can program > this CPLD I can send the .JED file, the schematic... > > --------------------------------- > > I could probably get that done... would have to get a board made... never > done it but could probably manage...some kind of usb blaster to program > it. I presume the .jed is the code? I can solder for sure. Would I be > able to look at the code so I can learn something? > > -- > Doc > > Bill Dailey > KXØO > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
CA
Chris Albertson
Sat, Jul 7, 2012 2:10 AM

There is a profesional "standard" for clock distribution for computer audio
interfaces.  They call it a "Word Clock" and it is usually distributed over
75 ohm coax cable.  It is common for a studio to have a master word clock
generator and to use audio interfaces that accept an external clock.  Some
of these master clocks have rubidium or OCXO inside.  Most can also PLL to
any external clock

The trouble is that lower priced audio interfaces lack a "word clock" input
and you'd need to get into something like this as a minimum to have that
feature
828mk3Hy http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828mk3Hy/

So if you are going to hack a cheap consumer interface it might be a better
hack to install a word clock input.  At some point inside the interface
there MUST be a sample rate clock running at 44.1, 48, 96, 192 kilohertz.
Find then cut that trace and bring it out to a 75 ohm BNC connector.  Now
you have a standard pro level feature.

Now when you divide down your 10Mhz lab standard divide it to "word rate"
and you only need to build the divider once and you can use it with any
audio interface that has word clock I/O.

Yes of course you can send 14.4356MHz or whatever but that is a one time
design and it will be different with every audio interface depending on
whatever TTL can oscillator the engineer used.

All that said.  I have a "cheap" Presonus firewire audio interface that has
S/PDIF input and it has the option to accept word clock over the fiber
s/pdif.  Many low priced interfaces can do this.  Then you happen to have
a quality s/pdif device around you are set.

On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Bill Dailey docdailey@gmail.com wrote:

What if I post a schematic with a Lattice M4-64/32 CPLD? If you can program
this CPLD I can send the .JED file, the schematic...


I could probably get that done... would have to get a board made... never
done it but could probably manage...some kind of usb blaster to program
it.  I presume the .jed is the code?  I can solder for sure.  Would I be
able to look at the code so I can learn something?

--
Doc

Bill Dailey
KXØO


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

There is a profesional "standard" for clock distribution for computer audio interfaces. They call it a "Word Clock" and it is usually distributed over 75 ohm coax cable. It is common for a studio to have a master word clock generator and to use audio interfaces that accept an external clock. Some of these master clocks have rubidium or OCXO inside. Most can also PLL to any external clock The trouble is that lower priced audio interfaces lack a "word clock" input and you'd need to get into something like this as a minimum to have that feature 828mk3Hy <http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828mk3Hy/> So if you are going to hack a cheap consumer interface it might be a better hack to install a word clock input. At some point inside the interface there MUST be a sample rate clock running at 44.1, 48, 96, 192 kilohertz. Find then cut that trace and bring it out to a 75 ohm BNC connector. Now you have a standard pro level feature. Now when you divide down your 10Mhz lab standard divide it to "word rate" and you only need to build the divider once and you can use it with any audio interface that has word clock I/O. Yes of course you can send 14.4356MHz or whatever but that is a one time design and it will be different with every audio interface depending on whatever TTL can oscillator the engineer used. All that said. I have a "cheap" Presonus firewire audio interface that has S/PDIF input and it has the option to accept word clock over the fiber s/pdif. Many low priced interfaces can do this. Then you happen to have a quality s/pdif device around you are set. On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Bill Dailey <docdailey@gmail.com> wrote: > What if I post a schematic with a Lattice M4-64/32 CPLD? If you can program > this CPLD I can send the .JED file, the schematic... > > --------------------------------- > > I could probably get that done... would have to get a board made... never > done it but could probably manage...some kind of usb blaster to program > it. I presume the .jed is the code? I can solder for sure. Would I be > able to look at the code so I can learn something? > > -- > Doc > > Bill Dailey > KXØO > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California
MD
Magnus Danielson
Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:45 AM

On 07/07/2012 04:10 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:

There is a profesional "standard" for clock distribution for computer audio
interfaces.  They call it a "Word Clock" and it is usually distributed over
75 ohm coax cable.  It is common for a studio to have a master word clock
generator and to use audio interfaces that accept an external clock.  Some
of these master clocks have rubidium or OCXO inside.  Most can also PLL to
any external clock

The trouble is that lower priced audio interfaces lack a "word clock" input
and you'd need to get into something like this as a minimum to have that
feature
828mk3Hyhttp://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828mk3Hy/

So if you are going to hack a cheap consumer interface it might be a better
hack to install a word clock input.  At some point inside the interface
there MUST be a sample rate clock running at 44.1, 48, 96, 192 kilohertz.
Find then cut that trace and bring it out to a 75 ohm BNC connector.  Now
you have a standard pro level feature.

Now when you divide down your 10Mhz lab standard divide it to "word rate"
and you only need to build the divider once and you can use it with any
audio interface that has word clock I/O.

Yes of course you can send 14.4356MHz or whatever but that is a one time
design and it will be different with every audio interface depending on
whatever TTL can oscillator the engineer used.

All that said.  I have a "cheap" Presonus firewire audio interface that has
S/PDIF input and it has the option to accept word clock over the fiber
s/pdif.  Many low priced interfaces can do this.  Then you happen to have
a quality s/pdif device around you are set.

In professional audio settings, you distribute clock over AES/EBU (AES
3), which is the original interface that was budgetized into the
S/P-DIF. The preferred way is to distribute it over a quite channel
(much like the black burst video signal) and then you get a Digital
Audio Reference Signal (DARS) which is specified in AES 11.

A particular trick of receiving the clock is to use the end of the Y
symbol, as this would have the Y symbols known pattern as a preamble and
hence lowering the inter-symbol-interference quite dramatically.
The X/Z symbol still identifies the start of the frame, but being
isochronous it's predictable from the Y frames as well.

Use AES/EBU whenever you can. It's been designed to handle long
distances, something which was compromised out of S/P-DIF as it was only
intended to wire together consumer equipment on short distances.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 07/07/2012 04:10 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: > There is a profesional "standard" for clock distribution for computer audio > interfaces. They call it a "Word Clock" and it is usually distributed over > 75 ohm coax cable. It is common for a studio to have a master word clock > generator and to use audio interfaces that accept an external clock. Some > of these master clocks have rubidium or OCXO inside. Most can also PLL to > any external clock > > The trouble is that lower priced audio interfaces lack a "word clock" input > and you'd need to get into something like this as a minimum to have that > feature > 828mk3Hy<http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828mk3Hy/> > > So if you are going to hack a cheap consumer interface it might be a better > hack to install a word clock input. At some point inside the interface > there MUST be a sample rate clock running at 44.1, 48, 96, 192 kilohertz. > Find then cut that trace and bring it out to a 75 ohm BNC connector. Now > you have a standard pro level feature. > > Now when you divide down your 10Mhz lab standard divide it to "word rate" > and you only need to build the divider once and you can use it with any > audio interface that has word clock I/O. > > Yes of course you can send 14.4356MHz or whatever but that is a one time > design and it will be different with every audio interface depending on > whatever TTL can oscillator the engineer used. > > All that said. I have a "cheap" Presonus firewire audio interface that has > S/PDIF input and it has the option to accept word clock over the fiber > s/pdif. Many low priced interfaces can do this. Then you happen to have > a quality s/pdif device around you are set. In professional audio settings, you distribute clock over AES/EBU (AES 3), which is the original interface that was budgetized into the S/P-DIF. The preferred way is to distribute it over a quite channel (much like the black burst video signal) and then you get a Digital Audio Reference Signal (DARS) which is specified in AES 11. A particular trick of receiving the clock is to use the end of the Y symbol, as this would have the Y symbols known pattern as a preamble and hence lowering the inter-symbol-interference quite dramatically. The X/Z symbol still identifies the start of the frame, but being isochronous it's predictable from the Y frames as well. Use AES/EBU whenever you can. It's been designed to handle long distances, something which was compromised out of S/P-DIF as it was only intended to wire together consumer equipment on short distances. Cheers, Magnus