Re: Refrigerators and Norcold Refrigerators
We are still using the original refrig that came on the boat (1993). It is
a Norcold DE540 and is still running great......hope I didn't just jinx
myself. When we need to replace it we will probably go the route others
have discussed, i.e. a standard 110ac refrig on an inverter. $1000 to
replace a Norcold seems a bit pricey.
Also, I never heard an end to the discussion about refrig amps. Someone
made the remark that there was no way a refrig could run on 5 amps per
hour. Ours draws 4 amps per hour and runs for several days on 2 Trojan
T105's with no problems.
Dan Lanier
Melbourne, FL
danlanier@earthlink.net
Can I make a comment here without getting my hands slapped?
While most everybody here is pretty hip on what they are talking about, we
can be pretty lax with our terms and therefore give the impression to others
that we don't know, as my Mother says, "beans from bullets".
Anything that operates on electricity draws "x" amps at "y" voltage, PERIOD.
It will draw that amount of amps as long as its running. It draws "x" amps
whether it runs for 1 minute or 4 days. If it draws 5 amps and it runs for
an hour, it has used 5 AMP HOURS of power but it didn't run on 5 amps per
hour. If the same thing runs for 1/2 hour it used 2.5 amp hours but it was
still drawing 5 amps while it was on.
Point being that to say something draws 10 amps per hour is kind of
misleading since it also draws 10 amps per second or per week or per year
and on and on.
Am I nit-picking?
Bill
Bill,
Can't find the thread you are responding to so I'm not sure about the Nit,
but for reader clarity the partner-point here is:
Amp-Hour is a product term quantifying the energy contained in a finite
energy source, ie., a battery. 100AH can be 100 amps (say at 12volts DC) for
1 hour or 1 amp for 100 hours.
Amps per hour... that would be a measurement of current per unit time and I
can't think of any real use for that except maybe a solar panel.
Capt. Jim
...Amps per hour vs. amp hours
Can I make a comment here without getting my hands slapped? While most
everybody here is pretty hip on what they are talking about, we can be
pretty lax with our terms and therefore give the impression to others that
we don't know, as my Mother says, "beans from bullets". Anything that
operates on electricity draws "x" amps at "y" voltage, PERIOD. It will draw
that amount of amps as long as its running. It draws "x" amps whether it
runs for 1 minute or 4 days. If it draws 5 amps and it runs for an hour, it
has used 5 AMP HOURS of power but it didn't run on 5 amps per hour. If the
same thing runs for 1/2 hour it used 2.5 amp hours but it was still drawing
5 amps while it was on...
Jim Fuller wrote:
Amps per hour... that would be a measurement of current per unit time and I
can't think of any real use for that except maybe a solar panel.
Capt. Jim
REPLY
amps per hour - . . . rate of work, which is power measured in watts.
Arild
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.705 / Virus Database: 461 - Release Date: 6/12/2004
amps per hour - . . . rate of work, which is power measured in watts.
Sir,
I must submit "Amps per hour" is as equally non-descript as "Volts per hour"
by the following proof:
Work, in its fundamental form, is a product of Force over a Distance
measured in Foot-Pounds among other things.
W = F * d
** if d=0 then W=0 and there is no work performed **
Rate of Work is Power or from the calculus dW(t)/dt giving us
P = W / unit of time, in Watts.
From that we can extrapolate the electrical components of Energy, in its
fundamental form:
P=IE
Using Ohm's Law, E = IR we can produce the alternate forms of power as:
P = I^2R = E^2/R which came from I * IR and E * E/R
Which means for the purpose of our discussion if you don't have a load "R",
like a light bulb, on your battery it is performing NO WORK. You can't get
to Work from current without Energy or Volts.
So it is Volt * Amps that make Watts and Volt * Amp * Hours that make
Watt-Hours as in kilowatt-hours on the electric bill.
Capt. Jim
BSEE, Michigan Technological University
Instructor, Network Analysis & Introduction
to Electrical Engineering, Napa Valley College
20+ years as an electronics design engineer
Arild,
I very, very rarely question you, but this time I must.
Watts is amps times voltage neither of which has anything to do with time.
Would it make any sense to say my computer operates on 115 volts per hour?
Or that it uses 120 watts per hour?
That is like saying that the temperature in this room is 75 degrees F per
hour.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "A Jensen" elnav@uniserve.com
To: jfuller@svinet.com; cooke_w@bellsouth.net; "'TrawlerWorld'"
trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:07 PM
Subject: T&T: RE: RE: Amps per hour vs. amp hours
Jim Fuller wrote:
Amps per hour... that would be a measurement of current per unit time and
I
can't think of any real use for that except maybe a solar panel.
Capt. Jim
REPLY
amps per hour - . . . rate of work, which is power measured in watts.
Arild
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.705 / Virus Database: 461 - Release Date: 6/12/2004
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering
To Unsubscribe send email to
Include the word Unsubscribe (and nothing else) in the subject or body of
the message.
is how fast the electrical current is changing. As in Miles per Hour per
Hour.
Just another nit picker.
Thank you for the info.
Harold
Haven't we AMPly discussed this?
<HHHH>Harold
WATT are you talking about?
Keith
__
Take my advice; I'm not using it!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harold Brink" hbrink@earthlink.net
Haven't we AMPly discussed this?
COULOMB guys! This discussion's been going on FARADAY or two, and now it's
degenerated into a JOULE of reVOLTing puns. Can't we talk about something
else OERSTED?
Best regards, Robert Bryett
Sydney, Australia.
mailto:rbryett@mail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of
Keith
Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2004 22:05
To: TrawlerWorld
Subject: T&T: Re: Amps per millenium
WATT are you talking about?
Keith
__
Take my advice; I'm not using it!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harold Brink" hbrink@earthlink.net
Haven't we AMPly discussed this?
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering
To Unsubscribe send email to
trawlers-and-trawlering-request@lists.samurai.com
Include the word Unsubscribe (and nothing else) in the subject or body of
the message.
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 12/07/04
How fast the electrical current is changing into what?
Granted that if I were measuring the change in the consumption of
electricity over time as in at 1300 the grid used 100 amps, at 1400-200
amps, at 1500- 300 amps, etc. I could state that as a rise of "100 amps per
hour". Or as the power company would do, apply the voltage and put it in
watts. They are dealing with all kinds of voltage so the meaningful thing to
them is watts or kilowatts or megawatts.
Have you ever heard someone say that such and such power plant or dam had
the capacity of 150 megawatts per hour? I think not. It's always 150
megawatts, period.
Let's put this another way. Some of us have gen sets. They are rated in
watts, right? Not watts per hour. Again they are rated in watts because a
rating in amps would assume a certain voltage. If the 5000 watt gen set puts
out an even 120 volts, it would be accurate to say it makes 41.666 amps. If
it was in fact watts or amps per hour and we had a 5000 watter, 41.666 amps,
then it would make 83 watts or .69 amps per minute, not near enough to make
that coffee maker go or the refrigerator run.
And miles per hour and amps per hour is absolutely apples and oranges. If
you want to make a correlation with autos, try torque. An engine makes so
much torque, period. Not torque per hour but just plain "x" foot pounds.
Don't use horsepower though because by definition HP injects a time factor.
With this I'm over. If folks want to use the term "amps per hour" they will
only be showing their lack of understanding of electrical power.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harold Brink" hbrink@earthlink.net
To: jfuller@svinet.com; cooke_w@bellsouth.net; "'TrawlerWorld'"
trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:44 AM
Subject: T&T: Amps per hour . . .
is how fast the electrical current is changing. As in Miles per Hour per
Hour.
Just another nit picker.
Thank you for the info.
Harold
Well this has been fun, Bill is done, I am done. For all of the "Amps per
hour" guys, I should have warned you I have all of my college texts within
arms reach of the computer (because I use them regularly).
Now how does any of this help anyone else on the list? What has to be the
most boring thread ever for most listees, I offer one gem of information...
The search window on GOOGLE has a wonderful calculator and converter built
in...
At http://www.google.com in the window where you type your search info type
the following:
32000 ft in knots
Instead of the list of websites you will get a value of 5.266... knots. I
have found it to be capable of some pretty obscure conversion. If you are
still holding on to Amps per hour try:
2 amp hour in coulomb
By the way if what you type is not a valid conversion you get a list of
websites with similar terms.
Knots per acre is a valid conversion!!! Go figure!
Cheers to all,
Capt. Jim