HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
On 06/30/2012 06:27 PM, Edgardo Molina wrote:
Dear Said,
Thank you for your advise on a complete time and frequency package. I
haven't heard of those models yet. I will look after your recommendation
and certainly will let you know if something shows before even
considering a purchase. GPS synch is a big plus as you mention. I rather
be attentive to the prey coming out of the rabbit hole.
The PRS-10 is very handy and current. You also can monitor the state
over serial port, which is great to get an overview.
Regarding Cesium, still far away from my current budget. Not discarding
the idea in the future, but I would have to learn and walk the steep
learning curve of time and frequency experimentation first. Thank you
for your kind advise. I will keep my eyes wide open for opportunities
and how to evaluate them.
A good rubidium and a good GPS with a good antenna can do small wonders
for you.
Cesium is nice for some stuff, but you most probably want them turned
off on the daily basis. Replacement cesium tubes is expensive.
Cheers,
Magnus
Edgardo,
I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth
considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be
better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these.
It also depends on where you are. On eBay, these numbers might be good. In
Mexico, might be more, depending on what the choices are. If you are
looking at it and can verify it's function, you avoid the 'pig in the poke'
aspects of eBay.
Magnus, you mentioned that you were looking for a power supply board, IIRC.
I sent you an email after I got mine fixed but never heard back. Do you
still need a power supply board?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Edgardo Molina
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:22 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Joe and Magnus,
Thank you both for your advise. I see that fisrt of all, the price for
the unit I am describing is far from reality. Just imagine that I have
been negotiating a lower price for the unit in this condition. They
were initially asking around $1.3K. Go figure!
Just for my peace of mind, I will visit the dealer again next week to
double check on everything you have mentioned. If the dealer is
willing to go down in price and I can take a better look, what could a
decent fair market price could be? I do not have enough information
from Ebay as to figure out a price and condition for an HP5065 unit.
Anyway, the instrument is not that bulky or heavy. I have imported
heavier and bigger amateur radio rigs and HP lab instruments from the
USA and could be better if I start looking for opportunities around
your latitude.
One more thing. What is the useful life of an instrument such as this
one? This is a beige version. Still something nearly my age! I assume
there are no replacements for the Rb cell other than probably trying
to restore it with focalized heated air like the smaller Rb modules so
available today.
Your comments again are welcome.
Thank you.
Regards,
Edgardo Molina
XE1XUS
On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
Edgardo,
The 5065A is a great unit but the price is over the top for a
questionable
unit. If fully meeting specs, the price is still very high, IMO.
The observations you report are likely simple repairs.
The great unknown is whether it will 'lock' or not? That is to say
will the
Continuous Operation light come on? The 'ovens' all typically go
full scale
pegged when initially turned on then come down 'on scale' when
warm. Photo
I will be 0 then come up as the lamp warms up. 2nd Harmonic comes
up as the
Rubidium Vapor Frequency Reference unit warms up. Once things are
on scale,
switch from Loop Open to Oper, push the Logic Reset button and the
Continuous Operation light should come on, assuming the 5 MHz
oscillator is
close to being on frequency.
Also, the indicator lamps are commonly burned out or the lenses are
missing.
There are easy to replace indicators that use the same bulb that you
can
install in place of the lamp assemblies if needed. I can send you
the part
numbers for these if needed.
Hope this helps.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On
Behalf Of Edgardo Molina
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:27 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Group,
Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts
group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;)
I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently
in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable
rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in
doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of
the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first
inspection) is:
100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it.
1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of
frequency meters showing 1.0000030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope
shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting
the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value
previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically.
5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when
ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.0000014 Mhz in
frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output
signal. Last digits vary sporadically.
No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage
of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A
couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt
PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics
package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on
the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the
voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions,
except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some
voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and
out of range, other appear to be within scale.
I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this
time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted
frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would
really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to
evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K
USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and
serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere
else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard.
Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments.
Respectfully,
Edgardo Molina
Mexico City, Mexico
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Edgardo,
I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be
worth
considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would
be
better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these.
Just to have it on record, anyone who is having trouble unloading a working
5065A for $500 should contact me offline. :)
-- john, KE5FX
www.miles.io
What is it you need? Do you really need an HP-5065 r to do jet need a good
10MHz standard? What is the intended use/
On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 2:19 PM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net wrote:
Edgardo,
I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth
considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be
better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Dear Chris,
One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of
my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen
numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an
HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle
or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still
personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics,
physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my
HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches
my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and
50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab.
Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire...
As a time and frequency hobbyist, I feel it is valid to assume my
investments as big boy toys. The marvel of accessing a childhood dream
of having a frequency and time lab at home, an educational and
research niche activity and the possibility to work with this
instrument, while cruising the long and torturous path of physics and
engineering understanding.
You have a nice day!
Cheers!
Edgardo Molina
XE1XUS
On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
What is it you need? Do you really need an HP-5065 r to do jet need
a good
10MHz standard? What is the intended use/
On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 2:19 PM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net
wrote:
Edgardo,
I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would
be worth
considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower
would be
better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1xus@amsat.org wrote:
Dear Chris,
One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my
electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other
Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can
go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford
Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive
the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics
and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and
frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's
say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time
and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire...
OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one. But the Rb units on
eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100.
But no "HP" name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near
zero in "looks" as they are just the bare oscillator.
Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a
seller many people know. The specs are very good.
I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861
Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP
Universal Counters.
But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should
buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate
your Rubidium oscillators. (yes "oscillators" with a pleural "s". how
else to cross check them if you have only one?)
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Chris,
The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made.
/tvb (iPhone4)
On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1xus@amsat.org wrote:
Dear Chris,
One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my
electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other
Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can
go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford
Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive
the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics
and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and
frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's
say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time
and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire...
OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one. But the Rb units on
eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100.
But no "HP" name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near
zero in "looks" as they are just the bare oscillator.
Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a
seller many people know. The specs are very good.
I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861
Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP
Universal Counters.
But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should
buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate
your Rubidium oscillators. (yes "oscillators" with a pleural "s". how
else to cross check them if you have only one?)
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Shhh, I was hoping he'd succeed in his apparent attempt to drive 5065A
prices down, so I can round up a few more for myself!
$78 is a great price for an LPRO-101, certainly, but you can't compare them
to the HP rubidiums. The latter's specs (as well as its "secs") are vastly
better.
Edgardo, I don't know if you've seen the relative performance that can be
expected from various Rb standards, but if not, check out
http://www.ke5fx.com/rb.htm and N8UR's plots at
http://febo.com/pages/oscillators/rubes/ (which were taken with a 5065A as
the reference.) This is why it's worth the effort to bring an HP 5065A back
from the dead, even if the cost is higher than an LPRO or PRS10.
The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line
for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities
for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium
standards -- until you get into masers.
-- john, KE5FX
www.miles.io
Chris,
The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made.
/tvb (iPhone4)
On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1xus@amsat.org wrote:
Dear Chris,
One of my needs: A dependable Rb source.
Tom,
Chris,
The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made.
/tvb (iPhone4)
Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements
on the ElmerPerkin/EG&G Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)?
http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf
--
Björn
John Miles said the following on 07/01/2012 05:18 PM:
The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line
for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities
for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium
standards -- until you get into masers.
This is a really good (and frustrating!) point. The 5065A is not
stellar at taus less than a few seconds -- mine doesn't quite hit
1x10e-12 at 1 second -- but from that point out to at least 10K seconds,
it's extraordinary.
Here's a plot I did recently of the short-term stability of some
atomics, versus a BVA which is below 3x10e-13 from 0.1 out to 10K
seconds. You can infer how good the 5065A is at medium tau from the
fact that it's still on the way down when the BVA aging starts to show
at around 600 seconds:
http://www.febo.com/pages/oscillators/atomics/
I'm still planning to do a (long) comparison of the 5065A vs. my best Cs
or a GPSDO to see if I can find its floor.
John